2012 may be the most important year ever for the ex-Mormon community. Thanks to Romney's presidential candidacy, the church is going to be in the spotlight next year. The Morg leaders are convinced that this is their moment. They are now pouring millions of dollars into public relations campaigns in order to obscure the truth and change the public's view of the church. If they succeed in making most Americans believe that the LDS church is a benign organization and Romney is elected president, it will be a major disaster for our community. If the church gains respectability and wins the public debate, we will be seen as bigoted cranks. If you don't believe me, consider the recent history of Judaism.

People forget how the Jews were once seen. Not so long ago, they were the most hated people on earth. Respectable people published sensational novels about a vast Jewish conspiracy that was here to destroy the world. Of course, this was all nonsense, but people believed it. Now, the Jews have been able to dispel all of these lies and become a respectable religion. Now, anyone who criticizes the Jewish faith are blacklisted by the ADL and embarrassed publicly. Criticism of Judaism is now a major taboo and can make you lose your job and friends. My great fear is that the LDS church will likewise gain respectability and controlling power in the media. If the church wins this debate, ex-Mormons will be seen as ignorant bigots for bringing up legitimate criticism of the LDS church. Someday, it may be as hard to criticize the LDS church as it is now to criticize Judaism or other respectable faiths. This would be a disaster for our community.

The church is angling for this goal already. The "I'm a Mormon" campaign is aimed at familiarizing people with LDS members so that they will think that Mormons are "normal." Most think this campaign is failing. Among the cynical, I think that is true. However, we forget that there is a "silent majority" that may be more influenced by these commercials. The church pays millions for top public relations experts who know how to influence people. The family time commercials and squeaky clean appearance of our leaders and missionaries is convincing many that Mormons are good and respectable people. Many are. However, people are beginning to wonder if the religion itself is not so bad. If more people begin to believe that, then they will see us as reactionary bigots who are criticizing an organization that is not so bad. It will get even worse if Romney gets in the White House and confers respectability on the church from that office.

This makes 2012 the pivotal year. If Romney get the nomination (which is likely), the media will be doing reports on his religion all year long. Romney supporters and the LDS church will be doing everything they can to obscure the history and facts and give people a positive impression of the church. Meanwhile, liberals, evangelicals, and other Romney detractors will be doing everything they can to show the church's other side. This means that people will be listening to ex-Mormons more than ever next year. Our community will have its greatest moment in the spotlight ever. Anyone trying to get a fair or negative view of the church will come to us for our opinion. That means that we must be careful not to look radical, crazy, or wicked. The church will jump on any mistakes that members of our community make so that they can discredit us. We have to show that not only are we good, normal, successful people, but that we have the truth. We have legitimate grievances against the church. We are no intolerant bigots. We are progressive and open minded. We must contrast these strengths with the insanity of the church. This will be the most important message we can give the world.

It will be a difficult battle. We are up against a professional, well-funded, and motivated PR campaign to advance the Morg's cause. However, we have the truth about the church. With our own ingenuity and the Internet, we must work harder than ever to expose the truth about the church. I know that everyone on this website is witty and tech savvy. We must use those skills to let people know the truth about the Morg. I suggest that we all get accounts at Huffpost and other news blogs that allow comments so that we can provide the inside view about the church on any news stories about the church. This is absolutely essential. We have no money or professional media people. So, we must use the blogosphere and other grassroots internet media to wage guerilla warfare on the church's media campaign. The church is trying to astroturf the blogosphere. They are even calling service missionaries to specifically troll blogs and news organizations to give "authentic" positive Mormon viewpoints on everything. We must counter them and contrast our rationality to their wide-eyed craziness.

Finally, we must do what we can by blog or letter to the editor to bring up a few key issues to torpedo Romney's candidacy. It would be great if we could get some news anchor to ask some of our questions to Romney on national TV and watch him choke. I suggest that we try to push the following question by promoting it in viewer submitted material debates: "In the temple, you covenanted with the Lord to "consecrate yourselves, your time, your talents and everything with which the Lord has blessed you to the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints for the building up of the kingdom of God on the Earth and for the establishment of Zion." Since you promised to give everything you own to the church, aren't you obligated by your religion to prioritize the church's needs above those of the nation? How can you honor the separation of church and state when you covenanted with God to give of yourself and everything you have (including the Presidency) to the LDS Church?" (If anyone has another suggestion for how to word this question better, I would love to hear it). Just imagine what would happen to Romney's candidacy if someone asked him that on national television during a political debate! Romney loses no matter what he says and people are left feeling scared. The church looks bad because people find out what people really do in those top secret temples. Do you really think that the church would ever get another convert if it became widely known that you are expected to give everything to the church in the temple? This one question would change the political debate and the religious debate forever.

Does anyone have any similar questions that we should try to get a newsman to ask Romney on national TV? Please post it!

Although we are up against a well-funded, professional media campaign, we can win because we must. Losing is not an option for our community. We must speak up and let the American people know the truth. Next year will be the most important the ex-Mormon community has ever seen and we must seize this golden opportunity to stop the LDS church in its tracks. In review, this is the plan:

1. Contrast ourselves in media interviews with the irrationality and bigotry of the church members and leaders.

2. Get accounts at big blog and news sites like Huffpost, CNN, BBC, The Economist, and start blogging the truth like crazy. We must gain the attention of the media elites and counter the church's blogging service missionaries!

3. Ask hard questions about Mitt Romney's promise to consecrate everything to the church and how this will make him a tool of the church in the White House. We must get American to pay attention to this huge issue.

Best of luck! I would love some more input on this plan and message. Please give me more ideas for questions and such. This is a war that we cannot lose.

"The church is trying to astroturf the blogosphere. They are even calling service missionaries to specifically troll blogs and news organizations to give "authentic" positive Mormon viewpoints on everything. We must counter them and contrast our rationality to their wide-eyed craziness."

I have known this for a long time. I have known, personally, senior couples who did this for their entire missions. It is time to just move past the cult's denial of this, and of other campaigning strategies they are using. Face it. It is a fact.

We are grossly outnumbered, though! I mean, could ex-mormons deploy thousands of old people to come out of their retirement and do this full time?

Should we be more organized in this?

Should we find ways of working smarter? For example, I appreciate your suggesting to us specific websites that you feel are some of the most influential.

I think ex-Mormons are smart enough to know that many of the Mormons' manipulations are probably not very effective--such as the "I Am A Mormon" blitz, and the Proposition Hate fiasco, the broadcast boredom of General Conference, the arrogance of BYU, etc, so we know not to waste time battling against these.

We certainly can not afford our own Madison Avenue advertising consultants. We don't own our own broadcasting company.

Perhaps America can help us. That's right. The Media has an obligation to the public, to expose the opposing view to everything. We are that opposing view to Mitt Romney's religion!

It is unfortunate that the "comments" sections are always closed on most of the Mormon You-tube videos, and on the Mormon websites. Perhaps "private" publications and videos are exempt from having public comments? I wonder what the internet rules are....

I still feel that there must be some way to force TSCC to open its financial records to the public. Also, TSCC is so clearly a business, that I wonder how they can still maintain its tax-exempt status. Is anyone working on this?

Thank you, Captain Moroni for this thread! I have wanted to do something like this for a long time.

BTW, whenever I write any comments outside of RFM, I avoid using the words "cult", "delusional", "arrogant", etc, or any kind of name-calling. We need to act as squeaky-clean as the Mormons. I agree with everything you wrote!

Your question is, of course, the core question that has the most to do with Romney's qualification to act as president. It is the one question that always should be addressed first!

Personally, I would like to ask Mitt Romney, how America can trust his judgment, when he believes that God revealed the Mormon church to a career con-man, though a rock in a hat. I would like to ask Romney if he believes that God and Jesus are polygamists. These are simple, shocker questions, that would interest the general public. I think that sometimes the smaller details bore people. We need better, more concise wording for our questions and blogs.

There are some very savvy, intelligent people on RFM. Let's get them blogging!!!



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 11/02/2011 01:05AM by forestpal.

I think that in general, Americans mistrust organized religion. There have been many examples of religious nutcases doing bizarre things in the name of religion over the years. Your average Joe and Joann are skeptical of anyone who touts religion over common sense thinking. They are able to associate religion with the ideas of the dark ages i.e. the earth is flat.

The second search result on Google for "Mormon" is this site. You will find only two other sites on the next six pages that offer an alternate view of Mormon beliefs.

The reason I am not concerned is that Mormons do not realize the average person's reaction to what they think is calming, apologetic, soothing "information." They look worse and worse! I am so enjoying it all. Here's an example of what I mean. This from the Washington Post's "Five Myths About Mormons." The author is married to a Jewish man and she is charming, writing this:

"But Mormonism also has more progressive elements. Our concept of God is not exclusively male: We believe in a Heavenly Father and a Heavenly Mother. Our theology teaches that all individuals can receive inspiration directly from God. Our history gives us many examples of strong, independent-minded women, such as 19th-century suffragist Emmeline Wells and writer Eliza R. Snow. And thousands of progressive LDS women and men today call ourselves “Mormon feminists” — rejecting parts of Mormonism that promote inequality while holding to affirming elements of our tradition..."

http://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/five-myths-about-mormonism/2011/08/03/gIQAyIhTwI_story_1.html

Here's how the average Christian receives this apologetic:

WTF? THey have a MOTHER in heaven? TWO Gods? That means they don't even believe in one god. No wonder our pastor warned us! And this lady says they can pick and choose what they want to believe. So, why did they kick those BYU students out when they said they didn't believe. Hmmmm. And what about that article I read where that one professor lost his job...I don't think these Mormons are straight shooters.

We can see in that paragraph the half truths and outright lies. Information is all over the internet and can't be kept from the public. When people smell a rat, they google "decomposing rodent," and that's it. When you google "Mormon Feminist" you get our site saying women are treated like the Pied Piper of sin leading men astray, and dozens of sites of Mormon feminists decrying the state of women in the church. One of those was particularly telling as it showed the state of fear of these women:

“We’re trying very hard to be viewed as faithful members trying to contribute, rather than some evil feminists,” Edmunds says. The key to avoiding such confrontations will mean primarily avoiding contentious issues such as reclaiming female ownership of priesthood authority. This authority is given only to male members of the church, but was granted to women in the early years of the church’s history, between 1830 and the 1850s. While restoring that authority has been a battle cry for many Mormon feminists, it’s not on WAVE’s agenda..."

http://www.cityweekly.net/utah/article-12213-new-mormon-feminist-group-lobbies-lds-church.html

In my opinion, all we have to do is continue to be the effective contrast we are to Mormonism: we are unscripted, diverse, unpredictable, uncorrelated. We are people who love integrity and call bullshit when we see it. We are good people who chose to love truth and could not live an inauthentic life--we could not keep pretending to be happy. We not looking for a better life after death, but working hard to enjoy our families and serve THEM in THIS life, instead of feeding a soul-sucking corporation posing as a church.

We are the real America-- free people. We give people a taste of that here, a laugh now and a gain and an anonymous friend who understands.
Our spontaneity and freedom to disagree with one another, to use "bad" words, to be who we are and speak our truth.

Nothing is more powerful --and it's working just beautifully. I have predicted here before that the cover will be torn away from the Mormon Church in 2012. It is the year of their tipping point.

Mitt Romney's strategy is what you are describing, he is already faking a pained look like he can't believe anyone asked him about his religion. He refused to answer, saying that's not who America is. Yet his approval poll number has never gone above 23%, just dips down when an exciting new potential candidate enters the field. That means Republicans are choosing him but holding their nose. Why? Because the guy exudes Wall Street 1% and they know that will never win over Obama. I like the fact that he's refusing to answer questions because the pastors are all talking about this in Christian churches across the nation. They carry our message. They say, "You vote for who you think is the best man--I don't tell you who to vote for. Today, I am going to review for you some of the beliefs of Mormonism and you decide for yourself if these are beliefs that you consider Christian..."

With the Evangelicals carrying our water, I can pull up the old lawn chair and pass the popcorn.

Anagrammy

Anagrammy

What a good thread, it's something I have been thinking about a lot lately.

On Melbourne Cup day I spent the time with 2 friends who used to work in advertising. The ads they made have been extremely effective, and they used short memorable slogans.

Anyway, I was asking for advice about getting the truth about the morg from the net to television and into general conversation.

They don't know much about the morg so I was throwing out angles to take including the point about Romney making oaths. They think that its not effective because it takes too much to explain and can be easily dismissed. Lots of people are committed to their reiligion, it can be spun as positive, dodged easily, played down etc.

However when explaining about the temple up comes the topic of secret handshakes, and it was suggested to use that. To be specific "FOUR SECRET HANDSHAKES" it's weird, easy to remember, hard to take seriously, hard to make go away.

And BTW, they found it hilarious.

So, "FOUR SECRET HANDSHAKES", what does it do?

- It shows that only TBMs can go to heaven, not christians or anyone else
- It shows that Mitt may be in charge of America, but he doesnt think the average American has any chance of getting into heaven.
- It knocks mormons down from almost being recognised as christians back between scientology and the westboro baptists.
- It makes mormons extremely uncomfortable. Imagine if it was picked up by a late show comedian or SNL. It's hard to look your co-worker in the eye when the whole office was just talking about it.
- It draws a huge divide. Most religious people are happy to think that "good people go to heaven". Mormons don't extend the same courtesy.


Applications:

Youtube comment on mormons being christians:

"I don't relly know if mormons are xtian, the ones I know are good people. I don't believe though that Jesus insists that you have to learn four secret handshakes in the mormon temple to be saved"

Press question for Romney:

Mitt, is it true that you believe nobody gets into heaven, or the celestial kingdom as your church calls it, without learning four secret handshakes?

Blog:

Not only do you have to learn four secret handshakes to get into heaven, but you can only learn it in their temple, and you can only get in the temple if you pay 10% of your gross income to the church in full by the end of the financial year.

etc etc etc.

I imagine what would have happened if Perry was introduced as "Here's a man that doesn't believe you need to learn four secret handshakes to get into heaven, a true xtian"

If this was picked up through all media, I'd hope there was a chance it would negate the imamormon campaign so badly, TSM might tap Romney on the shoulder and say "that's enough son, let it go, we'll make you a 70 instead."

"FOUR SECRET HANDSHAKES"

Spread the word

when I was about 10 my ding bat aunt let it slip that the temple ceremony had secret handshakes in it.
NO WAY! I thought, she had to be mistaken!
so later when I was endowed to go on my full time mission guess what saw in the temple ceremony.

STUPID STUPID ME! I went on a mission after that anyway.
thats a mistake I wont be making again!

In the mean time I hope the @$$ holes at LDS inc headquarters enjoy this video! I know I do !



four ( STUPID ) secret MORmON temple handshakes

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eI428hhVG4Y

I respect the OP's views on this subject, but I feel much less intensely about spreading the TRUTH. After leaving Mormonism I am finally in a place in my life where I can be who I am and say what I think completely. If someone wants to ask me what I know and how I feel about Mormonism I'll tell them straight out. I do not feel any personal responsibility to sway others or present my information in a way that is palatable to a wide variety of audiences. Those days are over and resemble Mormon tactics too closely for my tastes. Personally I feel that becoming a part of such a zealous anti-mormon campaign would tie me closer to something I want no part of (that being Mormonism.) My purpose on this board is recovery and companionship, not the deconversion of lurkers (though if that happens as a side effect, great!) My feeling is that the best way to fight against Mormonism is just to be honest and to be yourself - what a contrast to Mormonism!

That being said. MikeyA, I am impressed with your friends. They are good! FOUR SECRET HANDSHAKES...it's genius. If one wanted to start a campaign against Romney and his religion - that is the one, no doubt.

Yeah, I don't think anything needs to be done either. I think we ex-Mormons have some kind of syndrome - I know I do - to compulsively point out the falsehoods of the Mormon PR machine. Sometimes they employ such subtle half-truths and deceptive language that it makes my blood boil.

The good news is: nevermo's see right through the Mormon crap.

I recently made a Twitter account (I know, that's soooo 2010 but still) and I was surprised how negative perceptions of Mormonism are. And there seems to be no Mormon presence on Twitter in my language-area (Dutch) so I'm having a ball :-)

captainmoroni Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> criticism of the LDS church. Someday, it may be
> as hard to criticize the LDS church as it is now
> to criticize Judaism or other respectable faiths.

except that mormons werent rounded up by the millions and murdered. mormons take so much heat already in the media and IF romney were to become president, comedians and the media LOVE to make fun of the president. i can only see a negative outcome (yes i have the gift of prophecy....not) for putting the church in the spotlight... i'm not worried =)



Edited 3 time(s). Last edit at 11/02/2011 03:12AM by Nick Humphrey.

Mitt Romney and the MORmONS are already doing it!


Sure, at first it will be SICKENING to listen to MORmONS gloat if Mitt Romney gets elected as U.S. Pres. but I hope that it happens , although I dont think we will be fortunate enough to see it happen.

IF Romney is elected, the MORmONS will be unable to keep their mouths shut -the way they should. the press will dig into the stinking pile of criminal rubble that MORmONS call a religion,
MORmONISM will be more thoroughly exposed as what it really is than ever before, and the American ppl will not be pleased.

If Mitt can make people think he's got the right cure for what ails the U.S., nobody is going to care about his religion. I'm for another candidate, but Mormonism is the last thing voters will care about.

Being a predominantly Christian country. I think its ridiculous, and so do alot others, but thats the way it is. Why was the remark about Mormons being a cult so widely talked about? And television specials are popping up about mormons. Some people just arent going to ignore a potential president's religion. there are always polls on what religion people would be most likely to vote for...its crazy

:)

As much fun as it can be to poke fun at the way Monson resembles a certain star wars character and to post pictures of the Mormons sacrad underwear, and call them clever names, we have to remember to keep a level of respect for at least the people and the people's beliefs.

We can scare off potential exmo's who lurk a little trying to find out the truth, only to have their fears confirmed that were all wicked people by coming across a 'Magic GARMIES!' thread or a @#&! Morons!!!!' thread. They might never have the courage to come here again. I know some of those threads almost scared me off...

So yeah, just my thoughts on the matter. We do have to polish ourselves up a little...two can play at this game anyway

:)

No we don't.

that talking about skidmarks on magic panties will reduce our own credibility.

Talking about sacred underwear actually reaches more brains of voting age.

And the '4 magic handshakes' is specific and informative and perfect!

What I mean is that I don't have to have inherent respect for the beliefs.

I don't have to respect the belief that only Mormons who are "faithful" get to be with their families forever.

I don't have to have respect for the belief that god uses skin color as a naughty/nice divider.

Just because someone holds a belief doesn't mean I have to respect it.

And joking and credibility can be tricky too.

Look at the popularity of The Book of Mormon musical.

People will debate Matt and Trey's credibility.

But they've been more right about Mormonism than they have been wrong.

For millennia, churches have been sacrosanct:

"We are a religion, thou shalt not criticize us."

That premise has all but fallen away in this century - and good riddance.


People who quietly practice their faith don't bother me in the least - but when the Faithful insist on my participation, acknowledgement, 'respect', etc - or when they insist that their precepts be commingled with public policy, then I object.

And it's done by the countless "former Jewish" comedians.

People love laughing at other people's religions. And it is completely socially acceptable to do so when someone jokes about their former religion.

Our "message" about the truth of Mormonism is effective simply due to the diversity of our approaches. We have great writers, thinkers, historians, scientists, artists, and comedians here.

As long as we just keep being honest about our experiences and utilizing the talents that god gave us and Satan hijacked, we'll be fine.

Yes the spotlight will shine on Mormonism, and it's a chance to keep telling our stories. And we'll be heard as long as we are honest and GENUINE.

Above all else, to thine own self be twooo

I used to take the bus home from work when I lived in Minnesota, and one day we made an unscheduled stop in front of a Catholic church for some reason. It was during the time of the pedophile priest scandal. A man on the bus pointed and said loudly "There's our local child sex abuse center." Another man chimed in, and they bantered back and forth about it until the bus started off again. I was a recent ex-Mormon, and I felt some dread that they were going to start a pro/anti Catholic religious war there on the bus, but nothing happened and people weren't really paying much attention. It seemed irreverent, but it was an understandable sentiment based on what was being reported in the news. I think Catholics are less sensitive to criticism than Mormons. In an area with a similar ratio of Mormons, I think there would have been a backlash had he made a similarly serious claim about the Mormon church.

That's just one experience of mine. I've had many conversations with ex-Catholic friends and coworkers, and our experiences are more similar than I would have thought and some hostility is to be expected. What's weird is if you had reluctantly served the mandatory Mormon mission, found out the Church is false, and then were cool with it. Former Catholics can be quite hostile about their former faith, and yet they aren't looked at as particularly "angry and bitter" up to a point. At least that's been my observation.

I don't think it's any different for ex-Mormons. We aren't seen as irrationally angry or crazy outside of Utah. That's a Mormon reaction that doesn't really exist outside of Mormon land. I say just feel your emotions normally and tell people what your experience was with Mormonism, and don't try to act differently because you're around "investigators." Be yourself.

"Former Catholics can be quite hostile about their former faith..."

Can't say I've ever run into a "hostile" ex-Catholic (but I haven't exactly been looking either).


But how about a hostile anti-Vatican?

Count me in ...

I personally believe Obama will be re-elected. But if Romney does make it to the presidency, then there are at least four years to open up church history, practices and doctrine to a healthy debate and analysis. Romney winning is not necessarily the worse that can happen.

How about a plan to leverage the great position that exmormon.org has earned in web searches? I know y'all love the forum here and I enjoy following along, too, but you really ought to be stepping up and assuming your rightful place as *the* gateway to the entire breadth and depth of the online exmo experience.

Yeah. We could approach it from the opposite direction. The morg has all these secrets that they have to dance around and spin. We have none. We just lay it all out there. We may be mostly all anonymous, but other than that, this is the place with NO SECRETS!
Hey, maybe that's it...

RfM: The Place where all things mormon aren't sacred OR secret.
Go ahead: Ask.

Interesting take, cap'n moroni (the new ex-mo rum).

If you want to be heard, pick your messages and stick to a few. If we scattershot/shotgun, the messages will be diluted.

Most people don't care about esoteric doctrinal controversies like DNA, BoA, or even how many wives can dance on the head of Joseph's pin.

I think MMM is one of the most important. Racism, and prop8 are also more central.

Since we're here I'll dable. No one seems to be paying attention to the program. It's good cop bad cop. Romney ain't the guy - never was. He just comes across as another phony, Huntsman's the new tool. I'm serious - Milk before Meat. The "I'm a Mormon" campaign - these people are nothing like the Mormons I know. The people in the ads are real people.

Romney - another loud mouthed, self riotous, self centered Mormon. No one will give this guy the time of day let alone vote for him. Here comes Huntsman - "He sounds nice." And he is and he is genuine - but he is still a Mo. And because of that we as a nation should be afraid, very afraid. One day, I mean soon, the American people will wake up and realize that the LD$ church is up to something.

I think Romney stands a 56% chance of becoming president. I think the issue of his religion will get sympathy not ridicule. The mainstream media does not want to look bigoted. There will be some quesitoning early on about weird Mormon stuff in the general election, then it will go away. America voted a black guy into the white house in 2008, they can easily vote in a non-Christian guy. Your window of opportunity will be early. You need to get in whatever you think is effective early on, then you'll need to go underground.

albeit not as much as Steve Benson and others on this board, I have to point out the media swing. It's very popular for journalists to build someone up and then get bored and try to come up with a new story by tearing them down. During a boring news cycle or during a anti-Mitt bout of unpopularity, finding out some of Mormonisms ridiculous secrets would spark a feeding frenzy. Right now, the media is trying to keep an open mind because it suits their news flow. Romney isn't yet a big enough story so it suits them to lay low and play fair. Anything could change that attitude and if reporters smell a story, they are going to chase it down. Everyone wants to get published and get their story in the spotlight. But if the prevailing attitude is "Give the Mormons a Chance" most won't risk their reputation by breaking rank. Once someone can justify breaking a story though...

I realize I'm putting a lot of faith in my fellow journalists but information has the power to change everything. If we didn't believe it, we wouldn't be on this board trying to learn and trying to teach. It's that innate human curiosity and sheer nosiness that will work in our advantage, although I agree the Christian Right will be a big help too. And I disagree that a Mormon president will automatically give Mormons legitimacy. It will just keep Mormonism in the spotlight, secrets and all. Because the press NEVER criticize the president. LOL



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 11/02/2011 10:20AM by CA girl.

I had zero interaction with marments.

In fact, I only became interested in them after the Jim Dale/BSA debacle in 2000.

But the first thing that was an "oh, really?" factoid I learned was the marments are assigned when and where they go to chruch. This flies in the face of the God-fearin' folk down South. It's all about freedom religion. Don't matter where you go to church, s'long as you go.

You got yer pick o' methodist churches, presby churchs, DoC churches, and about 300 baptists churches in your town alone.

The very idea that you can't pick your own church is just baffelling and SCREAMS CULT!!

But I have two questions for Mittens.

1. Is it true you routinely sent your young sons into a closed, private room with your insurance salesman where they were asked, and expected to answer, about the frequency of their masturbation?

2. As the son of immigrants from Mexico who came here for better economic opportunity, and were sons of emigrants who before that fled to Mexico so the could practice polygamy, how do you feel about other people from Mexico who come here for the same reasons of better economic opportunity? Do you feel more entitled to the priviledges of the US, even though your ancestors rejected them?

In the 2008 campaign I put together a series of questions for Romney, for journalists to ask. I have revised it. If you have any journalist contacts, you might forward these questions:

"Questions for Mitt Romney" http://packham.n4m.org/romney.htm

captainmoroni Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
"In the temple, you
> covenanted with the Lord to "consecrate
> yourselves, your time, your talents and everything
> with which the Lord has blessed you to the Church
> of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints for the
> building up of the kingdom of God on the Earth and
> for the establishment of Zion." Since you
> promised to give everything you own to the church,
> aren't you obligated by your religion to
> prioritize the church's needs above those of the
> nation? How can you honor the separation of
> church and state when you covenanted with God to
> give of yourself and everything you have
> (including the Presidency) to the LDS Church?"

I agree with you in general. But the Presidency isn't his. He holds an office of the people but the presidency isn't his to do with as he pleases. He is bound by law, checks and balances and I'm sure has a carefully crafted response to this question pre-memorized.

I think the ex-mormons would be better served to push authentic history of the church vs the white-washed history the corporate church presents. Let the facts of mormononism damage Romney for what they are, rather than attacking Romney for being mormon. A religious attack against the person will fail as unamerican. Rather attack the religion instead of the person. That's where the exmormon power really is anyway.

I think it will be a net loss of membership for the Church, at least in the U.S. The numbers may go up initially, but there will be a net loss. You know their numbers are already inflated. I have seen how wards consistently "fudge" the numbers to be more positive. I actually had a guy (former bishop) tell me that he has to make the SP look good. I said you do realize the GAs use these numbers in making decisions, right? TBMs will dig in deeper, people with weak testimonies will weaken further. New converts will come and go for the most part.

I wonder if the church has ever done a study on what would happen to the membership in terms of the number of active members if they were to release all of the historical documents and financial records for public scutiny. Any knowledge of such a study?

THE FAITH FACTOR

Evangelicals Say Romney's Mormonism Would Be Big Issue In General Election


http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/11/02/evangelicals-romney-mormonism-general-election_n_1069288.html?1320240178

How mormons view their prophet - essentially sworn to follow whatever he says.

Who wants a President who has sworn allegiance to a medicine man in Utah?? People worry about the sanity of someone who goes along with that sort of thing.