After a week or two of not really talking about the church with my mom, (which has been really nice) she randomly sent me an email which contains the following:

"I feel strongly to tell you that Heavenly Father wants you to have the fullest, happiest life with no regrets. I know you will have deep, sorrowful regrets if you do not make the effort to build upon your testimony and serve a mission. I'm afraid that you are missing out on great opportunities to serve God, to know the Savior, and to acquire major skills and protection (financial, etc.) that you'll need for your future (school, career, marriage/family). You and I know that nobody can ever force you but I urge you to face the difficulty, face your fears, and strive to do what Heavenly Father wants you to do- even though it's hard. He wouldn't ask this of you if it didn't mean the best possible life for you. Please don't let satan win. He traps you into doubt, fear, and denial.....and ultimately an unhappy life. Please have the courage to do the work so you will be happy instead of depressed and trapped. There's no other answer than to make the effort with the help of the Savior and Heavenly Father"

Now, I love my mom, and I know she means well and wants what's best for me, but she just doesn't seem to understand that I have a whole new way of looking at life and the world and how I perceive it. What I get from what she wrote is that I need to serve a mission, or else I won't be happy in life. I know for a fact that my mom truly thinks that my life will crumble if I don't go on a mission, and live the church. It breaks my heart that I'm breaking my mom's heart. It makes me feel bad that she thinks I'm not "facing my fears" or that I don't have the "courage" to do it. I know she will never give up on me. I look at life and the world in a whole new way now, it's beautiful. It's almost as my whole thought process has been altered, and it feels to think as I want and to do what I feel is best.

Thanks for letting me vent.

rally

Her church set her up to react this way.

Normal nonmormon moms expect and support sons who make learn to make decisions and follow through in their own best interests.

We all tend to feel that we're hurting loved ones who react this way, but it's their brainwashing kicking in and doing this to them, not us.

Most mothers feel they've somehow failed if their adult kids decide to do something unsavory, but mormon moms unfortunately sometimes think that good choices are somehow sinful. And I'm afraid you might be right that she will never fully understand and accept your decision to leave her church. I left at your age and my 91 year old mother still doesn't get it. Sigh

I was going to write something about wonderful mums who never give up......... I'll save that for next mothers day :-)

I just had to comment on the e-mail itself. It's wording is just a wonderful commentary on 'Mormon-speak'

every single phrase could have been copied from a dozen different church sources... the ensign, manuals, church books....
and yet it is uniquely Mormon. It could have been written by some sort of Morg chat-bot.

Enter: name [rallychild]
Enter: 1) disfellowshipped 2) excommunicated 3) leaving church [3]
Run:
"I feel strongly to tell you that Heavenly Father wants you to........"

And you know what? She'll never give up. My father was exactly the same and did not give up until the day he died. Once he phoned me up one Sunday evening full of hope because the spirit told him that I would attend church that day. He was so sad when I told him no. Ensigns were sent to me every month, we never had a conversation that wasn't church orientated, he bore his testimony to me countless times and every time I moved my records followed. But it did no good, I followed my own path. Although leaving the church broke his heart it set me free and I do not regret my decision to this day.

"Please don't let satan win. He traps you into doubt, fear, and denial.....and ultimately an unhappy life."

With all due respect to your mother (none to the morg), I say:

Please don't let the morg win. They trap you into doubt (about what is real), fear (of your ability to make rational decisions on your own), and denial (of the beauty of a normal existence)...and ultimately (for you) an unhappy life.

None of the First Presidency went on missions. Seven of the Apostles didn't go on missions. So not serving a mission isn't the end of the world.

If serving a mission were the only path to happiness and success, then Mormons would be the only happy, successful people on the planet. But they're not.

I'm fine, Mom. You're the one who's fearful.

I'm just wondering if the mom is unhappy as a result of not ever serving a mission. (It's just a joke.)

That implies that becoming an apostle is a good thing and could give her some hope.

How sad that they are trapped by Mormonism.

Your mother is highly manipulative and she learned this behavior in the Mormon church, where people are encouraged to "never give up".

It's just another way of disrespecting an individual's right to make decisions for themselves.
The unreasonable demands of the cult always take priority, no matter what the damage to the person.

You might want to tell mom that you appreciate her concern but your decision has been made. She needs to stop harping on it.

for so long it pissed me off so badly that the so-called authorities get up in GC and tell people that if they never give up--if they just pray harder, their loved ones will come back to the church. The asswipes know damn well that is not the case. they see the statistics. but then people like my mom and yours take it to heart cause the profit, or whomever, said so and she thinks those guys wouldn't lie.

Then they spend the rest of their lives believing they just haven't done enough. I hated that my mom would have to go to her grave with that guilt. because there is nothing she can do to make it happen and her dear profit, seers, and revelators told her bald-faced lies.

But I just dont care anymore. that's her deamon to deal with the rest of her life--I have enough of my own.

TBM MIL will occasionally still try but she does not like our answers so she avoids the subject; as does most of this family completely.

I guess this is due mostly because DH and I base our lives on following the Christ of the Bible instead of the Mormon counterfeit. So a remark about us following Satan (which had been launched our way upon our first leaving) is countered with the fact that we believe it is SHE who is following Satan and then we tell her why we believe this. We keep the facts straight and simple and no one in the family has ever been capable of defending their position against us. (Many have tried but they relent.) We keep it respectful and low-key but clearly they cannot defend their position and now they don't even try. They are too afraid.

My advice is to not cowtow to them having the upper hand. YOU assume the authority in all thibgs said and done. Exmos get so brainwashed into living a life totally informed by the lie of "Mormons are the best people; Mormonism is the only right way"that once they leave they tend to still feel guilty and still give the tBMs in their life permission to reign over all situations. You must decide that YOU are in control; not them. One thing that works best is to point out their imperfections (which all people have). For example the old "family" nonsense. I am from a nevermo family while DH is from a multi-generational Utah pioneer Mormon family. My family is a huge Italian family from the East Coast. The behaviour of the TBM "family" is shocking in many respects as far as family devotion and love go. In fact it is downright apalling. Clearly their notion of family is far different to mine. I consistently pointed this out (although soon I didn't need to) and it became impossible for anyone to not see the blaring hypocrisy.

out

Dear Mom,

I understand that you really believe in the Mormon religion and that’s your right, at the same time, since you have introducted this subject yet again I will take the opportunity to debunk this Mormon propaganda form letter. I would like to break this down for you and let you know what I see when I read a letter like this.

LETTER: "I feel strongly to tell you that Heavenly Father wants you to have the fullest, happiest life with no regrets.”

MY TAKE: Introduction and appeal to the reader to to consider what follows and that the sender only has the receipents best interest at heart. That’s not really true, the intent is to make and emotional appeal to the reader and influence the readers judgment.

LETTER: I know you will have deep, sorrowful regrets if you do not make the effort to build upon your testimony and serve a mission.

MY TAKE: This is a very persumptious statement/conclusion about what will happen if I don’t follow this well intentioned advice and conform and comply with all the requirements and goals the Mormon Church has defined FOR ME to serve a mission at MY expense, My time, My sacrafice in putting the goals and agenda of the Church before my education, menatal well being and safety.

Well, I don’t really want to be a cult recruiter for two years and it will not make me a better man/woman, husband, father or anything else they promise OR allude to.

For a church that preaches that I must prayerfully come to my own conclusions and counsel with God in prayer about what course my life will take, they sure do not show any respect for the individual when they don’t reach the conclusion the Church has predeterminded they should come to.

For instance, they predefine what conclusion I should come to, if I say God wants me to sevre a Mission, the congradulate me for coming to the correct conclusion, but if I say between me and God, I think God wants me to put my eduction first and go to college and maybe later if I’m inspiried I will serve a mission, Now they withdraw their approval and support and work to change the outcome of the answer I received from God because it’s not the outcome they want for me. So how come they get to cut God out to the picture and just tell me that I’m not in line with Gods will unless I come to the predetermined conclusion they set out for me? So God could not possebly have a different plan for my life than the standard critera set out for me and every other young man. Thomas S. Monson himself did not serve a Mission, he joined the service, went to college and got married. So how is it that no one has any faith in God or Gods plan for my life?

LETTER: I'm afraid that you are missing out on great opportunities to serve God, to know the Savior, and to acquire major skills and protection (financial, etc.) that you'll need for your future (school, career, marriage/family).

MY TAKE: I am not mising a great opportunitis to serve God, (in fact if God arrived today the Mormon leaders would tell him to go back to where he came from b/c they don’t need him, they busy running the show.) To acquire major skills? Like what, being a cult recuriter or salesman for the Mormon church with sales taticts, how to make your product appealing, how to over come objections and how to close the deal; as in getting investigator to commit to baptism, and of course the prosperity gospel and rewards carrot with the promises that if I make the sacrafices God will reward me with good jobs and a nice wife and a happy family life.

LETTER: You and I know that nobody can ever force you but I urge you to face the difficulty, face your fears, and strive to do what Heavenly Father wants you to do- even though it's hard.

MY TAKE: And the ever popular “we can’t force you”, but we’ll apply as much family/social pressure as we can and make your life uncomfortabe, let you know how dissapioned we are that you didn’t serve a mission and remind you that you’re now “less than” and “not as good as” because you didn’t serve the Mission like YOU should have.

Followed by more presumptious statements, that of couse I’m afraid of the hard work, the ridgid life and sacrafices of a missionary doing missionary work.

What I’m really afraid of is wasting my time and my money on a folly, tracting out people who don’t want or need the Mormon religion and how I be treated because I didn’t act like a good little Mormon and go on the waste of time Mission to impress my family or other Church members and local leaders.

LETTER: He wouldn't ask this of you if it didn't mean the best possible life for you. Please don't let satan win. He traps you into doubt, fear, and denial.....and ultimately an unhappy life. Please have the courage to do the work so you will be happy instead of depressed and trapped. There's no other answer than to make the effort with the help of the Savior and Heavenly Father"

MY TAKE: Heavenly Father is not asking me the sevre him or go on a Mission, the Church wants this because it a public realtions campaign and a recritiment opportunity for them. They have member employees who run their religion businees and pay for the privledge.

If I go on a mission all I am doing is giving them two years of free labor by provinding them with my talents, my time selling a product I don’t even like or believe in and allowing them to use me their own purposes. Why should I work for free for a multi-million dollar corporation that collects all kinds of tithing money and doesn’t even pay mission expenses for members and then wants to claim that it’s such a privlege to serve and how blessed I’ll be. (So God will reinbuse me, the Church will keep their money in the bank? Is that how it works?)

And then threatens me with “I’m doomed to an unhappy life because I didn’t serve a mission.

And statements like “PLEASE DON’T LET SATAN WIN” Satan is not winning for cryin out loud, I am not suffering from doubt, fear or denail, I don’t believe all this hocum because it’s not real, it’s not true and I don’t want the Mormon Corporation running my life, laying guilt trips on me, and constantly asking/demanding or requireing me to give of my time, my talents and my money.

Why on earth do I want to go on a Mission to teach that crazy Joseph Smith claims he met God and God called him to be a Prophet, and put him in charge? Why do I want to teach things I believe are lies? OHHHH, because the Church wants me to, they think if I go on a mission and hear and repete these lies often enough I’ll come back converted and my family will be sooooo happy and they’ll have a dedicated member for life.

Well no, I’m not signing up for that, THANK YOU VERY MUCH.

In conclusion, the Church does not have my best interst at heart and I am doing the right thing by not allowing the Church to exploit me. That’s not to say I don’t believe in God, but I am seeing very little faith, tolerance or respect for free agency practiced in the Mormon Church.

If you wanted, you might also consider setting some boundaries:

Dear Mom,

I know you are firm in your beliefs, and those beliefs are causing you a lot of anguish because of the threats (many of them social) taught for those who leave the church, or who don't comply with it. Those threats have no power to induce fear in me, because I don't BELIEVE them. Mormons obviously are not the only people on the planet who live happy, moral, and productive lives.

I'm now asking you to stop. Stop crying, pleading, begging, threatening, preaching, e-mailing, and basically disrespecting my abilty to decide what I believe and how I spend my time, energy, and money.

Rest assured that you have done a great job teaching me everything you believe about the church. But now I'm an adult, and I will choose my own path. If you want us to have a healthy relationship, you have to learn to stop trying to override my beliefs and decisions.

Now about my happiness . . . you need to know that the most difficult thing for me right now is that you and everybody else I know is putting a tremendous amount of pressure on me and showing a a lot of contempt for me. THIS is the source of my emotional upheaval and depression. It's not easy to have everyone you know coming down hard on you, even when you believe you are doing the right thing. It's also a big transition to leave the church: it's a big change, and it's disillusioning to realize that you've been mistaken about something so important for so long. But I'm glad I found out NOW, rather than after serving a mission or raising a family in the church. Change is hard, but worth it in the long run.

Basically, what you are doing with the constant criticism and harping about me leaving constitutes emotional manipulation and abuse, and YES, that CAN cause depression. That needs to STOP, and if it doesn't, I need to put some distance between myself and the source of that abuse.


[I'm just assuming a bit, based on your posts, Rallychild. And yes, threats, attacking your character, trying to make you afraid, mind-reading (pretending to know your motives), are abusive tactics. Get a book on emotional abuse and you'll be surprised that Mormon society is FULL of emotional abuse . . . I recommend the author Patricia Evans]. Mormons seem like such NICE people. But if you don't go along with their expectations, they can get nasty pretty fast.

"It breaks my heart that I'm breaking my mom's heart. It makes me feel bad that she thinks I'm not "facing my fears" or that I don't have the "courage" to do it."

I think you should tell her this in exactly those words. She will know that you are taking her feelings seriously and she will also know that her words are hurting you. It is respectful, honest and caring and it will help you to build bridges with your mother for an adult relationship.

"I know she will never give up on me."

She's your Mom -- she should always love you -- I think that's kind of what you mean. :)

"I look at life and the world in a whole new way now, it's beautiful."

I think you should tell your mother that too. And let her know that there is nothing as difficult or that takes as much courage as forging your own, authentic path in life.

"It's almost as my whole thought process has been altered, and it feels to think as I want and to do what I feel is best."

I believe the Mormons used to call that "free agency" although I've heard they dropped the "free" part from it a while ago. I wonder why that happened?

Good luck. Relationships with parents are tough as children become adults. I think your mother DOES love you, though, and with love and patience she'll get to the point that she's able to accept you as an adult who knows how best to live his own life.

I love all the answers here, so I don't think there's much that I could add.

I do tend to turn it back on them though. With all the love I can muster, I let them know that from my point-of-view, it's so sad that they're trapped in such a small way of thinking.

I tell them that I didn't even know that I was trapped in a little box until I was out of the box, looking back.

When I first escaped the box, and found this amazing world out here, I wanted to run back and rescue all my loved ones from that box as well. I shouted, "Hey you guys! It's amazing out here. You've got to come see."

But sadly, I realized that they were happy in their little box, and they were too afraid to come out. Then I realized that pulling them out, kicking and screaming, would cause them more harm than good.

So I sadly accepted this and learned to respect their beliefs, even though seeing them living in their closed-in little world is extremely difficult to watch. But I respect their choice, as long as they respect mine.

I am not sad. I am not afraid. I am rejoicing because I am now free to study all of the amazing philosophy the world has seen throughout the ages. I can study whatever I like without someone telling me, "You shouldn't be reading that."

It's glorious. My whole life is ahead me. Everything is fresh. I am excited. I am happy. I am free.

Maybe the way I put some of that is a little corny, but it gets the point across that there are other ways of looking at things.

They of course will just be sad that Satan is deceiving you, in which case I come out with how fascinating it was when I studied the history of Satan, could see how he was developed over time and realized that he's not real.

Even near-death experiencers have never met such a being. Some have hellish experiences, but no one has ever come back saying they've met a being named Satan.

No matter what they throw at me, I simply come back with the fascinating stuff I've been learning. I explain why Evolution is real. I come across sounding like an excited child who is just now discovering the world.

I don't come across as countering them with an argument. It's more like, "Look what I found! Isn't that amazing? Isn't that fascinating?"

There's not much they can say to that. It confuses them that you're so happy and excited, and because they don't want to hear what you're saying, they soon drop the subject. They're afraid of the new knowledge you've gained.

Mom: "Satan has a hold of you." You: "Oh, hey! Speaking of Satan, guess what I learned about how he was developed. It's really interesting ..." They often go quite quiet at that point.

rally, being allowed to do as you wish and not be directed by others is truly a blessing. I am happy for you. I was sad to read she thinks you will be taken by Satan. Mormons are so black and white. Ask her about that. That is so wrong. Tell her in the real world there are wonderful people doing wonderful things for others and holding great jobs, caring for their families and SATAN does not have a hold on them. And I was also sad to read that she thinks you are depressed. Obviously you are not. Bring that up with her too. Stating lies in letters is something YOU WILL NOT ACCEPT.

I am unclear as to why you believe that you are God's official spokesperson.

If God and/or Jesus have anything to say to me, they know where I live. They can appear to me in person (while I am fully awake), just as they allegedly appeared to Joseph Smith. Until such time as that may happen (and I am not holding my breath while waiting), then I will assume that God and JC think I am conducting my life in a satisfactory manner.

I would really appreciate it if you kept your religious views to yourself. Please cease and desist from speaking or e-mailing me with ANYTHING about religion. I will extend you the same courtesy.

Is there any part of the above message that you do not understand?

Ever since "coming out" about my feelings towards the church a week ago, my mom has said little to nothing to me at all (outside of telling me that I over drafted on my checking account). Then yesterday she sent me this long text about all the things she knows I'm going to miss (priesthood, tithing, temple blessings, etc..) if I stop going to church and that she's worried about my eternal salvation, blahblahblah.

I didn't respond, of course. Also, she texted me this morning at 8:30 when my BYU ward starts saying "Don't give up on His true gospel. Going to church?" Of course, I was asleep and wasn't going...anyways............

I guess most TBM parents are going to act this way. Don't worry about it, they must be programmed to do it. Oh well, I say.

But that's not my job, and sometimes you just have to put up with stuff.

My mom was inactive when I blew off the church 30 years ago, so it's a different dynamic and she leaves me alone about Mormonism. I don't think she really believes it anyway. But it did take a few years of arguing to get her to stop pestering me with her mental rewrite of our family history and her extreme right-wing political views. She still throws out little test balloons every now and then.

I'm told she actually chased my brother with some anti-abortion brochures.

I believe a little bit of confidence goes a long way. My mother is one of two people who have ever persisted in bugging me about anything. Everyone else believes me the first time. I don't have friends trying to fix me up, or get me to read a book, or change my mind about anything.

They even let me invite a guy from Ohio that I'd met on the internet to come live with me, sight unseen, and then be stuck in a ridiculous, blatantly abusive relationship for nearly two years because I made out like I knew what I was doing. Dude was a total scumbag, and it was obvious at a glance, but the only person who dared say so was an online friend who had never seen him or me.

It might have lasted much longer if it hadn't been for that one person constantly challenging me.

My mom didn't say anything until it became obvious I was being taken advantage of financially, and then it was only about the freeloading. My dad made noise about coming to Durango and running the guy off, and I like to think he would have if he hadn't been disabled. My brother came to visit, and only much later did I find out he was afraid of the guy.

Now my brother is a big tough man's man--not quite as big as the scumbag, but the same height (6'6") and usually a lot more like my dad than he was that day.

"I looked into his eyes and saw a killer staring back," he said. But he ran off and left me with this supposed killer, because I acted happy. I had a huge problem with that when I first heard it, and it still bothers me.

So it's not always a good thing that people let me do my thing. I'm not even that assertive, but most people don't argue with me. My height may have something to do with it, being a 6-foot woman, but I think it's mostly because I speak confidently. I am my father's daughter in that regard.

Quit trying to be nice and tell your mom you're done with Mormonism. The arguments with my mom that I mentioned earlier went on for years because I was trying to bond and kept going there with her, in the hope that she'd show some understanding. I wanted a friendly, adult, sharing relationship--the kind I see my friends having with their parents. Only when I realized it wasn't going to happen, decided to accept the relationship as it is, and started changing the subject and ignoring her attempts to restart the discussion did she STFU (for the most part).

I was 43 when the crap with my mom started, so it was extra silly of her to talk to me like a 12-year-old, trying to change my mind. My brother got chased with the brochures because he hasn't quite divested himself of the idea that old people get to say whatever they want.

You may find that your mom lets go a little more easily, but she'll probably take the authority as long as you keep giving it to her.

:-)

you might want to do is ask her to write the 11th Article of Faith in her next e-mail to you, then ask her "If this is what Mormons truly believe, then why aren't you practicing it?"

May take her awhile to get used to you changing your mind about things. She got a big shock, I think. She had a very strong emotional connection to some clear expectations. You're chosen to go against your traditional culture in some ways and that is difficult for many to accept.
Be patient, give them time.
Usually, they learn to accept your choices at least on some level.

"and to acquire major skills and protection (financial, etc.) that you'll need for your future (school, career, marriage/family)"

This is one of the most telling points of her message to you.
I'm 24 and left my mission after 6 months and I still get messages from my mother about the "nessecary" lessons learned from the Mormon experience. Mother is perpetually broke, and pays about 4k a year in tithing. She never does anything fun, and hasn't had a vacation in years because money is so tight. But still the endless invisible blessings will shower her.

If your mother is even half deluded as mine you are just going to have to endure this till her dying day.

There are happier people outside of Mormonism who haven't needed any of these "valuable lessons".

Good luck buddy!

"Mom, I appreciate your concern, but I don't FEEL right about going on a mission."

There's nothing she can say to that. FEELINGS are the be all and end all, to any Mormon discussion/argument. FEELINGS are the ultimate trump card and determinant of truth for Mormons. If you say you don't FEEL right about going on a mission and that not going makes you FEEL good, then that's the correct course to follow. ESPECIALLY if you prayed about. According to the Morg's teachings, everyone is entitled to their own personal revelation FOR THEMSELVES.

"I asked God if I should go on a mission. I didn't FEEL right about it. I then asked if I should NOT go on a mission. I FELT GOOD about that." End of conversation.

"Mormons' fears resulting from LDS indoctrination and Mormon psychological conditioning": http://members.shaw.ca/blair_watson/fears.htm

Website with info. about how cultic Mo-ism 'programs' people and affects their self-esteem: http://members.shaw.ca/blair_watson/

If I were you, I'd e-mail the following to your mother:

"Mom - I know you mean well. You have a perspective of me that is rooted in how the LDS Church has taught you to perceive me, based on the choices I've made for my life. That's not how I perceive myself. I'm entitled to do my own thinking and come to my own conclusions - about what I'm going to do with my life, the LDS Church and religion, and everything else."

"If I went on a mission, should I teach investigators that Joseph Smith used a rock that he believed possessed a supernatural power - a 'seer' stone - and his hat to translate the Book of Mormon? You probably think that such an idea is 'anti-Mormon' nonsense. You can read about this 'translation' method by reading an article by LDS Apostle Russell Nelson entitled "A Treasured Testament" in the July 1993 Ensign; the article is on the church's website at www.lds.org. If your answer is "No", I shouldn't teach investigators what I've just described (what a 'Prophet of God' wrote and the church published), I'd ask, "Why not?" Do investigators not have the right to know the full truth about Joseph Smith and early church history?"

"Do potential converts to Mormonism have the right to know that Joseph Smith made other men's wives and girls as young as 14 his plural wives, as well as single women in their 20s to 50s? Again, you might think that he never married any married woman or teenage girl young enough to be his daughter, but if you go to the LDS Church's genealogy website at www.familysearch.org and enter the info. for him (born: Dec. 23, 1805 in Vermont) and click through to Ancestral File 1, you'll see the partial list of his wives, including women who were already married and 14-year-old Helen Mar Kimball."

"Why doesn't the LDS Church teach members and potential converts the truth about Joseph Smith and early church history? How could I, as a Mormon missionary, in good conscience, only tell investigators white-washed information? The answer is: I couldn't.

"The New Testament says the truth makes people free. I know the truth about Joseph Smith, early church history, the Book of Mormon, and other key aspects of Mormonism - and I'm free.

"Love..."

If you want TONS of 'faith-disrupting' facts as 'ammo' in case you need them in the future, search for recent posts done by me on this board w/ links.

Good luck!