Brittany: hello
Brittany: How are you?
Me: Oh, you're there
Brittany: yes
Me: Hello I'm well
Me: I'm just curious before i start.... are you in Utah now?
Brittany: yes
Brittany: What can I help you with?
Me: I love the mountains there.
Me: I wanted to ask a question that I keep hearing about Mormons - especially now that Mitt Romney is running for president
Me: Is it true that Mormons believe Polygamy is an eternal principle ordained of God?
Brittany: Me too... okay
Brittany: I do not think so
Me: You don't think so?
Me: Since I don't have the Doctrine and Covenants handy
Me: first off, do you?
Me: I was told to check out section 132 of Doctrine and Covenants
Me: But since I don't have them I was wondering if you could
Me: ??? Do you have Doctrine and Covenants?
Brittany: I do not know what Mit Romney Believes are personally
Brittany: I do, but it does not state this
Brittany: I know that chapter
Me: So it does not state that polygamy is an eternal principle ordained of God
Me: Doctrine and Covenants Section 132 that is
Brittany: no
Brittany: But it does talk about polygamy, at one time it was practiced
Me: It isn't practiced now?
Brittany: no, it is not and has not been since the 1800s
Me: So a man cannot be sealed in the temple to more than one woman for time and all eternity?
Me: I just want to be sure on this...
Brittany: Not at one time, no
Me: really? As I understand it, Elders Nelson and Oaks are indeed sealed to more than one woman in the Temple. is that not true?
Me: And I also understand that if a man and a woman are legally divorced...
Me: The man can still be sealed to another woman in the Temple without being unsealed to his ex-wife
Me: Is that true?
Me: I just want to clear this up...
Me: And the other thing I heard was that Mormons believe that in the afterlife polygamous marriages will be the rule
Me: Was my source of information accurate?
Me: I just want to know from you - an official spokesman for the church - what the truth is.
Me: I need to know what Mormons believe before I vote for a presidential candidate
Brittany: We really do not know if that will be a rule, Polygamous families are something that God as asked his saints to have throughout history (we see this in the bible too). but we do not know if it will always be this way
Brittany: I do not know how I personally feel about this and we would never have to live this way if we didn't want to
Me: I know how I feel about polygamy
Me: I watched Big Love and I wouldn't envy Bill Paxton's character at all!!
Me: Even though he did get lots of... time with his wives and all...
Brittany: We do NOT live like the show Big love, that is not about our church
Brittany: No member in this church can be a polygamist
Me: yeah, I saw when the stake president finally found out about Barb and excommunicated her.
Me: That was right after she went to the temple and they showed her taking her endowments
Me: so I just want to make sure I understand what you're telling me...
Me: The LDS church does not practice polygamy today
Me: But they still believe in it as a principle - they may start practicing it again sometime in the future.
Me: If so, no one would be forced to live in polygamy if they didn't want to.
Me: Is that what you've said?
Brittany: Yes
Me: Do you think that if Mitt became President, he'd try to get Polygamy re-established?
Me: That's what has me more worried than anything.
Brittany: no, I do not think so at all
Me: What makes you think that he wouldn't?
Me: I just want to know... so I can think about it too...
Me: Because if his God said it was an eternal principle...
Brittany: I know that he would not, he has not leadership in the church that would allow him to recive that revelation from God
Me: and if the reason they abolished it in the 1800s was because the government said they couldn't...
Me: and now all of a sudden he's the Prez...
Me: but what if Monson told him to work to re-establish Polygamy?
Me: Monson CAN and DOES receive revelations from God, correct?
Brittany: That is not why it was stopped
Me: I thought it was stopped so Utah could become a state... So why was it stopped, then?
Brittany: Monson does, but he does not have a connection with the prophet
Me: who does not have a connection with the prophet? Mitt?
Me: I'm sure that Mitt and Monson will become fast friends if they're not already once he gets elected.
Me: You can't deny that they won't.
Brittany: Mitt
Me: Monson met with Bush when he was in office
Brittany: We believe in the law... separation of state and religion
Me: You can't say that he won't meet with Mitt, a member of the LDS church...
Brittany: He is a leader of a religious group, I am sure that is why
Me: Yes, in Bush's case, that is true.
Me: But if Mitt becomes president, Mitt is not only then head of state, but is also a member of Monson's flock.
Me: That is a whole different picture.
Me: So why was polygamy stopped if not to allow Utah to become a state?
Me: Because that's the reason I've heard from a number of places - including a PBS special that aired several years ago
Brittany: That was not all the way correct
Brittany: I will send you that info
Me: thanks
Me: anyway back to my whole different picture thing...
Me: The reason why it's a whole different picture is because...
Me: ...first of all I need to ask, have you already been in the temple?
Brittany: http://newsroom.lds.org/article/polygamy-latter-day-saints-and-the-practice-of-plural-marriage
Me: If you've already been through I won't be revealing anything new to you...
Me: From the internet I've learned that in the temple certain ...promises are made...
Me: one of which is to give one's entire life to the LDS church
Me: and the other is an oath of vengeance on the US government
Brittany: Matt, why have you looked all of this up?
Me: because I need to know whether or not to vote for Mitt
Me: The rub is... if Mitt makes that kind of a vow in the temple and then Monson tells him to re-activiate polygamy... he'll be obliged to do it...
Brittany: His religion will not be forced on anyone
Brittany: The church would never make the president change a law
Brittany: He is not supported by this church
Me: So polygamy will be reactivated but we won't be forced to practice it, is that what you're saying?
Brittany: It is not any different if He were any other religion
Brittany: No, I do not believe it will be reactivated
Me: but noplace else is anybody made to take such a strong vow of obedience to one's church
Me: He has
Me: if he's gone through the temple
Me: and it's all hidden and nobody wants to talk about it.
Me: at least no other temple going mormon. but it is a real point of worry for non-mormons
Brittany: no, it is not hidden... you cannot understand because you do not understand our beliefs
Me: I read them on the internet
Brittany: Well, that is disrespectful
Me: and when I ask about them nobody wants' to talk about them.
Me: no, it's not disrespectful at all
Me: it's understanding of a truth
Me: what is true and what is not true
Brittany: No, it is disrespectful
Me: If he's vowing to give all in this life to his church and his church asks him to do 'x'
Brittany: There is a reason why you much be a member in good standing to enter the temple
Me: he'd better do 'x'
Me: Catholics don't do that
Me: there are many liberal catholics who go against teachings
Brittany: Have you read his platform?
Me: of their church
Me: yes I've read what he says
Me: and I know what politicians do
Me: What he says now and what he does after election day could be two very different things
Brittany: Do you want to vote for him?
Me: Not until I know what it is he really believes and what he could or might do that could really mess things up for our country
Me: I'm trying to decide
Me: Since the real nuts and bolts of his faith are cloaked in the secrecy of his temple it's very difficult to make a fair judgment
Brittany: He cannot impose religious beliefs on the law
Me: and only because I'm trying to understand what they are you call me disrespectful
Me: who says he cannot... especially if he has the power of the presidency
Me: Granted, he could be impeached... but I remember how difficult that whole process was with Nixon
Me: do you see what a dilemma it is for a non-mormon to vote for a mormon for president?
Me: Any other faith, one can easily find out what it is that they believe. Nothing secret, nothing hidden.
Me: Not so here... I have to either trust what ex-mormons say or non-mormons think.
Me: I can't ask Mitt or you or any other practicing mormon what it is that you believe and get a direct answer.
Me: Because you all believe that modern revelation is key, and you have all that power in your president
Me: and everyone takes an unconditional oath of allegiance - in secret - to your president
Me: That's what I understand, anyway. And given that, regardless of his platform, I cannot vote for Mitt Romney. Especially because I hear nothing but silence on your side.
Brittany: That is always your choice
Brittany: I do not know what else to tell you...
Me: You can't tell me anything else, that's just it.
Brittany: I explained that we believe in a separation of church and state
Brittany: It is a commandment from God to follow the laws of the land
Me: You're forbidden from telling me anything that could change what I've heard about your secret covenants
Brittany: You seem to know alot about them
Me: The internet helps out a lot
Brittany: We promise to follow God and his church
Brittany: But you do not need to, they are found in the Bible
Brittany: All of them
Me: Are you saying that everything you learn in the temple is in the Bible?
Brittany: yes
Me: If what I've seen on the net is true, that is certainly not the case
Brittany: Then you have been miss lead
Me: Really?
Brittany: yes
Me: Which chapter of the Bible has the secret handshakes, then? KJV will be fine.
Me: I don't mean to be flip.
Me: I just want to prove to you that your temple ceremonies are not of the Bible.
Me: Maybe they come from Freemasonry, but not the Bible.
Me: Nowhere does the Bible mention anything about health in the navel, marrow in the bones
The chat session has ended.

BTW - to the other chatters - I've had to retype my transcript in notepad - are there other easier ways to extract the text out of the google chat window that LDS gives us? A link with instructions would be great if there is one.

What fun these have been. I spent last weekend doing several of these, but I just recorded these two...

My favorite one was when I responded to their "how are you" with "not really well" and he said please tell more...

So I said... Oh I don't know....
My navel isn't healthy...
My bones have no marrow...
and my loins and sinews are weak...


After which the chat session abruptly ended LOLOLOLOLOLOL!!!!

ChatWithAMo Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> BTW - to the other chatters - I've had to retype
> my transcript in notepad - are there other easier
> ways to extract the text out of the google chat
> window that LDS gives us? A link with
> instructions would be great if there is one.
>
For hacking their pathetic system locks, take a look at this:

http://exmormon.org/phorum/read.php?2,96759,96831#msg-96831





For Google Chrome browser (which is what the OP used it appears):

1. After the chat window loads, type CTRL-N
2. copy the address from the chat window into the new loaded window
3. go to the WRENCH icon in the upper right of the new window.
4. click on OPTIONS
5. in the dialog window, click on UNDER THE HOOD
6. Select the CONTENT SETTINGS button
7. In the settings box, scroll down to JAVASCRIPT
8. Select DO NOT ALLOW and close all boxes.

Then should be able to select and copy the window text.

Make sure to re-enable the JAVASCRIPT afterward so you don't screw up other programs


For IE or other browsers, you'll have to search how to disable javascript.

For example:
http://kb.iu.edu/data/ahqx.html

LMAO! Thanks for the loud laughter - I needed it!

I think one of you guys should try a new approach. PRetend to be a young woman, widowed with a little boy before converting to the church. Husband killed in Bush's Iraq war. Now she's remarried, she's pregnant with the new husband's child and recently converted to the church. They're getting ready to be sealed in the temple. But she'd like to be sealed to both husbands so both kids have their fathers for eternity, especially since it was so unfair for her first husband to be killed at war and not get to know his son. Her new husband is okay with it because he wouldn't want her to chose to be sealed to only one of them if he had been the one that got killed and lost his wife and family when dying.

Then start on how it gives you hope knowing Oaks and Nelson and Perry have all been in this same situation and have been sealed to both wives. What special requirements are there so you can be sealed to both of your husbands and both kids to their individual fathers...

Be sincere.

I think the most interesting part was her question to you: Matt, why have you look this up?!!

She was alarmed that you dared search out the temple ceremony. They just don't get that to the 99.8% of the rest of us, it isn't sacred or even secret. It's just plain silly.

Here's a general wiki I found out about this oath of vengeance against the US Government. They don't actually do this in the temple anymore but when I was doing the chat with the missionary I wanted to let her know that I'd done my homework :) :) :)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oath_of_vengeance


Here's some more comprehensive descriptions of the mormon temple ceremony and the various versions. Because I like to triangulate to determine the real truth, I've read several of these with the idea that consistency among several different sources probably means that they are true. Of course the only real way to know what the truth is is to become one, I'm not going to spend that kind of effort myself.

http://www.irr.org/mit/endowment-ceremony.html
http://www.utlm.org/topicalindexc.htm#Temple Ceremony

(utlm.org, The Utah Lighthouse Ministry site, run by Sandra Tanner, is my own all-time favorite research site. Sandra and her late husband Jerald are to be commended for all of the wonderful work that they have done and that she continues to do!)

As one who has never been a Mo, and that has seen firsthand the damage done to great friends and friends of friends by TSCC I've read up and done as much research into them as I can. This very board has helped me tremendously as has Utah Lighthouse Ministries and some other sites that I am prevented from mentioning here.

"We believe in the law... separation of state and religion"

WHAT THE HELL EVER!!!!!

I also love how she claims it's "disrespectful" to learn the truth of Mormonism via the internet. How frickin crazy is that??!!

Can someone explain the temple vengeance on the US Government?



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 11/09/2011 09:38AM by christieja.

Hi Christieja

See above for my reply to your post re: oath of vengeance. I replied to the wrong post.

Just as a point of clarification/order, the Bible does talk about health in the navel and marrow in the bones. See Proverbs 3:8.

But fun chat - carry on!