For starters, I'm 16, and I don't believe a thing this cult teaches, but I have no choice about going to church, since my TBM parents force it...
Anyway, today was incredibly ridiculous for many reasons, so i'll start from the beginning.
I went to help my friend in her sunbeam class, (which beats sunday school by a long shot) and during the opening exercises, the 1st counselor of the bprick comes in and tells me I have to go to class, so of course I had to,
But, when I was on my way to class I ran into my mom & the bishop. First, this creepy old D-bag tells me I look "radiant", and notices I don't have make-up on, (WHO DOES THAT?) I know it was a compliment, but he's old enough to be my father, and the way he said it creeped me out,

After that, they did a 180 and start guilt tripping me and asking if I "hate the church" (DUH.) and if I "want to be there" (NO.) THEN, they start telling me that the younger girls in YW "look up to me b/c im 'pretty' and 'older', so I should be a 'good example'. Sorry, that's not enough reason for me. There was a lot more, but just the whole "talk" made me uneasy.
All of this was complete BS, and it made me sooo uncomfortable. Am I wrong to feel like this? Shouldn't my own mother stick up for me? If I'm crying aren't you going to stop? (I don't cry easy)
I know this sounds whiny, but it's really the breaking point b/c I'm sick of being talked to like this.
All in all, I think it sorta sums up Mormon men, and mother-daughter relationship (or lack of)
Am I the only one who's made to feel uncomfortable on a daily or weekly basis?

Both my sisters quit attending about your age. I am older so my parents were more strict about forcing me to believe. Trust me, I know exactly how you feel. I think the lesson manuals have been modified to be more generic and not have any fictitious stories to get people to actually think about the gospel and their choices anymore, so thank your lucky stars for that. :P

Your feelings are perfectly valid, although because of your age and lack of voice, your family and other adults will just view you as having a 'bad attitude.' Although, if my bishop had addressed me that way I would have been offended too.

Your mother won't stick up for you against the priesthood men. She's been conditioned not to question church leaders.

Since the bish can't relate to you on any level he's just trying to break the ice by saying things he thinks you like to hear before reprimanding you for 'not setting a good example.' You could try writing him a letter, telling him when he addresses your looks as a way to manipulate you into compliance it makes you feel uncomfortable and demeaned and you'd rather he speak to you in a more respectful manner or avoid contact with you altogether. Forward a copy to the SP as well. Regardless of his intentions it is a form of sexual harassment since he wouldn't address any young man in this manner. Make sure your letter uses the term "sexual harassment" somewhere in it to make it clear that is what he is doing. Your letter of complaints would be founded. If he continues (and I doubt he would) you can look at his behavior as him using his abuse of power as an excuse to sexually harass you even further.

I'm not sure there's ultimately anything you can do, but realizing that alone is empowering in how you respond to this creep. Even though you are 16 you still have a right to stand up for yourself.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 11/14/2010 10:00PM by vhainya.

You're being disrespected and underestimated in the worst way. It's doubly insulting that they think their poor attempts at manipulation will bear any fruit. Your personal integrity is more important than anything. You are old enough to assert your own beliefs, and despite the brainwashing of the church, your mother should respect this. If she doesn't, you need to be patient with her - but make it clear that you aren't going to do your part to maintain this facade.

There is a compromise where your personal relationship with your mother doesn't need to be damaged or jeopardized because of your own disbelief. Try and find it.

And with respect to the old men being creepy - just goes to show how virtuous they really are, hypocritical old bags of dust.

In all the "warm fuzzy" stories someone is talking about how WONDERFUL they feel at church and how a FEELING OF PEACE means it must be true (not sure how that works but that's what they say).

Well you have the opposite of a feeling of peace. So, using their logic, doesn't that "testify" to you that it's false?

And, no, you aren't wrong to feel really bad about how they mistreat you. They are working from an assumed subtext that you are doing something bad by not liking church.

Imagine if I asked you to eat something and tell me how it tasted to you. What if it tasted awful to you and you told me so. Further what if I then started telling you that it really tasted great and there was something wrong with you for thinking it tasted bad, and, hey, others look up to you so tell them it was delicious! -- that would be crazy. That's exactly the situation they are trying to maneuver you into.

When people around us tell us stuff and do it with concern and emotion in their voice we naturally respond to it. If it is a parent and someone we once held in awe as having authority or even someone we have to act deferential in front of it can really hurt. Even if we know it's baloney it can still hurt.

There is nothing wrong with you. There is definitely something wrong with them. However they hold a lot of social (and, for now, economic) power.

Just be sure to remind yourself that it's not you. It's them.

cheers,

Baura

If you say, "Um, well read the BOM and prayed about it, and I received a feeling that it was false and untrue." It really stumps them.

Katherine Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
>
> All of this was complete BS, and it made me sooo
> uncomfortable. Am I wrong to feel like this?
> Shouldn't my own mother stick up for me? If I'm
> crying aren't you going to stop? (I don't cry
> easy)

Your crying and tears are seen as success in guilt-tripping you.

Why would he stop when he sees that what he is doing is getting the desired results?

And, yes, a mother should protect her daughter, but your mother, unfortunately, is powerless in the system of male dominance. ....
She can't protect you as long as she chooses to submit.

Good grief, how did he think you would respond? By fawning and bowing and telling him how much you respect his opinion of your makeup? He is so inept that he put you in a position where you couldn't respond in any rational way.

Do you suspect that your Mom might have gone to him about your disbelief and they were looking for you? When you weren't in class, they sent someone to find you. I wouldn't assume this meeting was a coincidence.

Does your Mom seriously think some old inept man is going to give you a testimony by remarking on your looks?

I never had the courage to make trouble at your age. Now I want you to do it for me! Next time tell them you are old enough to be married to Joseph Smith and want more freedom.

...and ask her not to put you on the spot again like this. Because just as Heresy suggested, your mom had a chat with the Bishop, and someone went to fetch you.

Tell her that being made to feel uncomfortable to the point of crying is not going to encourage positive feelings about going to church. In fact, quite the opposite.

She'll protest that she did no such thing, but you'll have made your point.

In one of our old wards, we had an EQP who was a dirty old man. Always hitting on the ladies at church. One sister called him a "perv" to his face.

He was eventually made Bishop.

You know what sweetie, there is NOTHING wrong with you.

The other people in the church just don't know they are in a cult, because they are too trapped in their fear of "If I question this, I'll be turning against God".

But the thing is, people need to understand that God and the Mormon church ARE NOT the same thing! The idea of God was around thousands of years before the mormon church existed. And will continue to be even if the church falls. God is a separate subject from any church.

And don't let them tell you "Yeah, but our church is the best way to lead people to god", because that's not true either. For one thing, that's what EVERY church says. And for another--there are MILLIONS of ways to get in touch with God, and each person does it in their own time.

With a TBM,its best to constantly insist that you "are not turning your back on God, you're turning your'e back on the church, and there is a huge difference."

Its kind of like when a kid tells their divorced, non-custodial parent "I hate you for walking out on us!". And the parent says, "I didn't leave you, I left your mom/dad."

Constantly repeating that will not only ease their fears that you are trying to "turn evil", but it also implants the idea that god and the church are separate.



Edited 3 time(s). Last edit at 11/14/2010 11:42PM by melissa3839.

can influence you, guilt trip you, make consequences you didn't earn, control you, flatter you or whatever else they can do to get/make you to stay and believe.

Remember, they believe this hoax; key is that they believe it, you don't and beat them up with the 11th article of faith every chance you get and remind they to have faith in God that everything will work out for the best.

The cheap compliments and personal comments were creepy and your reaction was natural.

I suggest you go through the motions of mormonism but drag your feet as much as you're able. I guess you'll have to expect these kinds of episodes. That's what mormons do.

They do mean well as misguided as they are.

I probably know exactly how you're feeling because I was in the same situation at your age. It probably won't help to buck the system too much for now. Better to keep your mouth shut and bide your time until you can make your own determinations. I wouldn't want the bish to insist on weekly interview or your mom to take away all of your privileges and pile on chores.

good luck. My thoughts are with you.

Although I'm male and not particularly pretty. Nice to know the script hasn't changed much. "You're so smart. The others will listen to you and follow your example. Your words are powerful, you don't want to lead your brothers astray do you?"

Stand your ground. Get vocal like I did and see how quickly the kid gloves come off. However, doing what I did earned me extra scrutiny from my dad and isolation from the neighborhood so it's not the best idea from everyone. You're 16 now and don't have much longer to go. Keep using your head and your time will come.

And of course, no worthy saint-especially a mere woman. woyld dare contradict the bishop in his presence.

On a brighter note, if what the bishop says is true and the other girls look up to you, this is a perfect opportunity to free some of them from the icy grip of LDS, Inc.

If you play your cards right, you could expose them to a lot of information that will ruin their test monkeys, and the then you can resign in peace, knowing that you have done as the Lord has commanded- He that hath been warned must also warn his neighbor.

Bishops are expert manipulators. That's how they get the "calling" to lead. Just ignore him. He has no direct line to or from God, is untrained as a minister and has a full time job that is not church related. His efforts to manipulate your sense of pride is a time honored tradition used by all leadership.

Congradualtions on having the maturity and intelligence to see these things all ready. Keep using your head and you will go far.

there is a good stock of mollies at the molly store when the RM's return to the Y. That's why peters go on a mission -- to gain admission to the molly store upon two years of indentured servitude.

you are nothing more to them than product in the supply line. Your final destination -- the molly store.

Looks like you're smart enough to avoid that fate.

My parents never ambushed me with the bishop about "hating" the church, but I had my fair share of perverts around.

They seem to carry on in JS's legacy, by inappropriately commenting on the looks of pre-teen/teenage young women.

Katherine Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> > But, when I was on my way to class I ran into my
> mom & the bishop. First, this creepy old D-bag
> tells me I look "radiant", and notices I don't
> have make-up on, (WHO DOES THAT?) I know it was a
> compliment, but he's old enough to be my father,
> and the way he said it creeped me out,
>
>
Next time say "thank you! I think you're sexy too!"

or maybe "...have you talked with your wife about the no makeup thing?.....cause sistas got Issues!!! Am I right?.."

or "...radiant??!! Oh, god!, my period is late too!"

or "...If you've noticed the no make-up, you've probably also noticed I'm going comando today.."

Have some fun with the douchebag.

Maybe if you were younger and uglier they'd leave you alone... until it's time to go on a mission.

Just my $.02

Ron

Have a quiet word with your Mum that you thought the Bishops words were a bit creepy and that you don't feel comfortable with the way he looks at you...

As I tell my 15-yr old daughter: "You have to put up with my crap now. I'm your parent— it's my job whether I do it poorly or not. But soon you will be old enough to be in charge of you."

Ignore the Bishop. He doesn't know any better. Try and be patient w/ your Mom. She's trying her best I'm sure.

You're not wrong to feel like you do. Actually you are smart to see the Church for what it is at your age— problem is you are still a minor.

I wouldn't feel that you have to excuse you beliefs. They can make you go to Church but they cannot make you believe it. I would consider though whether you want to tell all or not. If your mom is understanding she should support you whatever the case. Others at Church will only see you as project if you show doubts. The Church is losing a lot of teens and the leadership is trying their best to keep the youth active.

Good luck. Try and not let it bug you if you can.

Since you are 16 years old then you are less than two years away from turning 18. Then you become an adult, legally speaking. Even though you magically become an adult when you turn 18, your maturity level should be coming close to adulthood as of the present time. You are no longer your parent’s little child.

Why do you think that you are obligated to go to church just because your parents want you to go? Many years ago when I was your age my parents were TBMs. I had become terminally tired of attending church and I wasn’t about to do it anymore. So I simply figured out other activities to do on Sunday and went about doing them. I knew that my parents were not about to physically grab me and haul me off to church. I did not ask them for permission to quit attending church -– I simply stopped going. There was really nothing that they could do about it.

Many people your age are planning on attending college. That is generally a good idea, with the only problem being that it costs significant money. Do you have any aspiration to get a college education? If yes, do you have any means of financing that goal? Is it possible that you could qualify for a full ride scholarship?

Here is another alternative. At age 18 you can enlist in the military if you choose to do so. That could qualify you for extensive job training that would give you job skills that could be used later in civilian life. Also, serving in the military qualifies you for significant financial assistance to be used for a college education once you have served your military time.

Now would be a good time for you to do some future planning. If your parents have the financial means to be of assistance then you can take that into consideration. But if your parents do not have the financial means, or if they are unwilling to help you unless you are a faithful member of their cult, then there are other good options available to you. You need to explore all those options.

I suppose I'm in the 'keep your head down and get through it until you're old enough to move out' crowd. I'm pretty non-confrontational though.

The way I was able to stop going to church while still living in my parents house was my job at JCPenney. I pretty much volunteered for all the sunday shifts I could get, and at home I would just say non-committal things like 'Oh darn. Jennifer is out of town so I have to take care of her sunday.'

Once I was moved out for college, I only went to church a few times, and even then it was just to sacrament meeting. (The RS girls were not very happy about new girls stirring things up...)

Things will get better when you don't have your parents hovering over you and telling you what to do with your 'free agency'

Thank you guys so much for all the replies :)
my sisters have my back, but my mom completely lost it after my sis sent her a message on facebook, but of course my mom took it offensively. Honestly, my moms reaction to me was awful. I could have burned the BOM in front of her and gotten a nicer reaction.
My sister called the bishop a pervert, and then the whole thing just sorta blew up from there.
My mom said I didn't have to go to church anymore if I think it's "stupid", but I doubt it will last. I'm just worried about having to have another "talk" with the perv. That's not my idea of leadership, or even normal, sitting in a small room with an old fart.
And where's my dad in this? When my mom exploded the first time, he was busy helping a kid with his eagle scout in the other room. When my ma almost said the F word, that's when he got up, but after I went to my room he never came and talked to me. Right now I don't even know if he knows what's going on. But until he get's my side of the story, I'm still screwed. I'll get out of this one way or another, just gotta let my mom cool off.

I agree that this bish sounds like a pervert. It was totally unacceptable for him to talk to you like that, both in what he said and how he said it. You are not off-base at all. If you were my daughter, I'd be so proud of you!

I hope your mom comes around and realizes what a gem she has in you and what a sick organization LDS is. There's always hope. It's so hard to go to your mom for help and get the opposite! Tell him off, preferably in front of others, if he ever dares pull garbage like that again, but be sure sure to take the high road. Tell him how it makes you feel and that you deserve to be spoken to with respect, or whatever you feel, using your own words of course.

I'm so glad your sisters back you up. Shame on your mom for essentially throwing you in the path of wolves like that!

I would just take his compliment and say thank you. If he says something nice then don't get to annoyed about it. If you do then they will think you are leaving the church because you got offended. Try to stress that you are leaving because you don't believe it. Stick with it I know what you are going through. I am almost 18 and I am stuck going to church every sunday also. I have actually even gotten into conversations with my bishop about the historical inaccuracies. Everything will work out. Look on the bright side, at least everyone isn't expecting you to go on a mission like me.....

Your mom should not allow this man (bishop) to talk to you that way. She is trying to get his help it seems to get you liking the church. This is between you and your mom. Tell her you know you must go since you are not of age to do otherwise but you will not put up with this pushiness. Stick it out but hold your head high and don't look upset while there if you can help it - just look like you are bored out of your mind. I assume the kids your age have given up on you. That would be nice.