I am just wondering for those of you that live there, how are the public schools different? Is there a seperation of church and state in Utah or have the wormed around this??? Have done some googleing on the public schools there but not really finding the information Im seeking,figured that kind of information could probaly only come from those that live there.

I live in West Valley City. No, I'm not in a gang. There are lots of Latino Catholics here, so teaching in a public school about how a child-molesting con man was a prophet of God would not go over well here.

Same thing with Park City, not a big Mormon area.

But Utah County might as well teach Mormon doctrine in public schools because some classrooms don't have any non-Mormon kids.

Ugh. Then the stupid seminary bulidings, near by.

some specfics i was wondering about are such as Pioneer Day which is clearly a mormon hoilday, is that observed in the public schools
are teachings of the church, church history, joseph smiith allowed to be taught

may be back with more

told ya i would be back....are photos of joseph smith allowed, pictures of temples???

Schools are typically closed in July. They are taught about pioneer day as Utah history.

My kids went to school in Davis county. The seperation of church and state was not crossed that I ever witnessed.
Layton has so many different denominations of churchs due to the air force base.
The teachers and admistrators didn't blur the lines.

The parents and the children where sometimes quite a different story.

Pioneer Day is in July, so most schools are not in session. For those that have year-round school, July 24 is an official state holiday so the schools, like all other state offices, would have it off.

Any teaching of church history (outsude of LDS seminary) would be in conjunction with Utah history. One could not reasonably teach Utah history without some mention of Mormonism.

Church teachings would not be officially sanctioned, but in schools where a majority of teachers and students are Mos, they will undoubtedly creep in. That being said, the overall direction of Utah's curriculum in areas such as health and sex education and social studies will be influenced by the state legislature and school board which are definitely Mormon dominated.

I never saw a picture of a temple or Joe Smith in Utah public schools except in a textbook - and then only in a historical framework.

...but that doesn't mean Mormonism isn't in the schools. The students bring it with them. As was posted above, some classrooms don't have any non-Mormons in them. With that kind of shared background there's no way a school can remain free of Mo Stank.

There may be a difference between urban and rural schools in Utah. I've worked in both. I'd say the most LDS Inc influence is in the rural schools. In the district where I worked, they would open various committee meetings, school-wide faculty meetings, and school board meetings with prayer (a mormon prayer). One 1st grade teacher I knew conducted daily prayer in her classroom. When I asked how she managed that with the 'separation of church and state' thing, she replied (very smugly), "Every year, I ask the parents of all my students if they object, and they all agree that it's OK with them." The administrators apparently agreed, because they allowed it to continue.

Why would this woman think that she needs to pray for a 1st grade class? That they won't get to rowdy?

Abington v Schempp, Engel v Vitale and the U.S. deptartment of Education called. They say, "hi."

They also say that majority rules is still a violation of the establishment clause since we're a republic not a democracy, so there is that.

"[T]here is a crucial difference between government speech endorsing religion, which the Establishment Clause forbids, and private speech endorsing religion, which the Free Speech and Free Exercise Clauses protect."

http://www2.ed.gov/policy/gen/guid/religionandschools/prayer_guidance.html



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 12/14/2011 01:48AM by The Man in Black.

Most schools and teachers are very careful about mentioning religion either in staff meetings or in the classroom. The farther you get away from Salt Lake City the worse it gets.

I've never taught in Utah Valley, so I don't know if that would be different down there.

In the four schools I have taught at, religion was almost never talked about. In fact, the only time I can think of it ever coming up was when I was talking to a teacher who was a Lutheran or Methodist or something and we talked a bit about how one of the other teachers was an Evangelical. I can't even remember the reason why I came up. The principal in this school wasn't from Utah and was definitely not Mormon (ie, I once saw a pack of smokes in the principal's car).

As far as the students go, most of them are Mormon. However, I was talking about another religion today and its effect on some of the different cultures around the world and was surprised when quite a few of my students were members of that religion, though not all of them practiced. It turned into a very interesting discussion in most cases.

However, the thought that Mormon doctrine is taught in the school system is fairly absurd. Whatever perceptions you have that make you think that are clearly wrong.

From what I have seen it is not mentioned in the schools and I am in Utah county. As one poster said the some of the kids and parents are a different story, Pleasant Grove for us was a nightmare. The school we are at now in Saratoga Springs has been wonderful they have gone out of their way for my son. I do feel for the teachers though I think many of them are just over whelmed.

Speaking of Pioneer Day when we first moved out here, my sister visited. We had no idea what it was. Being from New Mexico My sister said oh it must be like Cinco De Mayo, man you should of seen the dirty looks we recived



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 12/14/2011 12:23AM by eldorado.

I didn't see much separation between church and state. There were prayers at my high school graduation, which I ended up writing a letter to the editor about.

If I remember correctly there was also a prayer conducted on the opening night of a new school play, backstage. I don't think it was before every performance and I can't remember if it was voluntary or not. The drama teacher was pretty cool though.

I remember the history teacher doing the 'wink wink nudge nudge' thing when we came to the religion-spawning-era that was the early-to-mid-1800s. He seemed amused that the textbook would write mormons off as a little nutty.

My AP Psychology teacher ripped out the entire sexual motivation section of each textbook, claimed that there were things in there that weren't appropriate for seniors in high school (most of us turned 18 that year), and then proceeded to give us a 90-minute lecture on homosexual motivation when that part of the curriculum came around. This may or may not be considered religion-related, but it was frustrating for me that any sort of textbook censorship was going on at all (considering most students never read more than they absolutely had to).

The last paragraph is pretty bad, hopefully we will be out of here before either one of them goes to Jr. High or High school. I am really worried about how it will go in 2nd grade when most of the other kids are baptized.

My kids have gone to schools in both Utah and Salt Lake counties and I can't recall having had an issue with this. I think the teachers are very careful to not cross the line. My biggest complaint is them serving apple juice at Room Mother Tea. Why do they call it a tea if they're not serving any? Big disappointment!!

http://news.google.com/newspapers?nid=875&dat=19971211&id=_ncNAAAAIBAJ&sjid=DVQDAAAAIBAJ&pg=4621,3467925



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 12/14/2011 01:41AM by Dave the Atheist.

I lived in Utah Valley from age 10 to 18.

In elementary school, we started every day with a prayer.

Where I lived was a pretty small town at the time and the school had one bus. On primary day, the bus did not make it's regular route, but rather delivered us to the church to attend primary. If you didn't want to go, you had to walk home. And you had to sneak off in order to do that.

In the 6th grade, we did avery long unit on the Old Testament.

In high school, the morning prayer ceased, but every assembly, game, play, graduation began with an opening Mormon prayer. Additionally, every extra-curricular activity I participated in began with a prayer as well. And always a Mormon prayer.

I am glad to hear things have changed for the better in Utah Valley.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 12/14/2011 09:19AM by elee.