You asked me about my "spiritual" journey, and I wanted to respond here because I thought it might end up being helpful for others.

Plus, I love attention.

I wouldn't say that I went straight from Mormonism to atheism - but I could see how people would view it that way.

When I got home from my mission and started reading Hugh Nibley - I read a lot of his writings that dealt with early Christianity, the sects, the writers, the beliefs. And it was all very confusing. Nibley was out to cherry pick ideas and stretch them to fit into the Mormon "box" and because of this, there were a lot of things I just didn't understand and wouldn't understand unless I did reading on my own.

So, I started reading more about early Christianity. Mormons claim that they are a modern version of Christ's original church; therefore, the church should look really close to early Christianity. But Nibley wasn't out to TEACH people about early Christianity, he was just referencing here a little, there a little, everywhere a stretched reference reference.

And when I started reading about early Christianity from actual reputable scholars, I was shocked, and my super duper special testimony was shaken up quite a bit.

There were just some undisputable facts that CLEARLY no one had ever brought up in church that I had no clue about.

I had NO idea that the original four gospels were not eye witness accounts (nor could they be). I had no idea that they were written decades (and up to a century) later. And I had no idea that some of them were only in fragments that were copies of copies of copies of copies - and the fragments contradicted themselves in LOTS of places.

So translation wasn't just about getting a few words right - it was about getting a lot of other stuff right too.

While Mormonism hinted at these problems with Christianity, I was blown away by the depth at the problems and that the Mormon answers wouldn't fit all the problems with Christianity.

I started reading atheist literature and also looking at the history of the church while reading more about the history of Christianity. The real histories.

Just like with Mormonism, the problems of Christianity all "went away" when I said, "Maybe it's all just made up."

Boom went the dynamite. It all made sense.

The only thing that bothers me (and I really only see it rarely), is that occasionaly a Christian poster will make a remark that Mormons go atheist for some stupid reason like we "break" spiritually or some sh*t like that.

It's the same kind of reasoning Mormons have about us leaving because being offended or wanting to sin or blah blah blah.

Nope. I studied my way out of Christianity. The same "loss of faith" that I experienced in Mormonism is the exact same I had with Regular Jesus.

Some people want to continue on with faith. But as far as I am concerned - keep it in the realm of faith. If someone wants to step into the world of evidence? It's not going to go well for them.

Also, I'm not "broken" because I don't believe in Regular Jesus. Nor did I "break" in order to "reject" him.

The day my DD announced she was in love with a Mormon and planned on getting baptized I found this place (RFM). I was raised Catholic, went to Church on the occasional holiday but never thought much about it, religion that is.

My road reads exactly like yours. I study my way out to become the optimistic pessimist I am today (I think there's something out there....but I doubt it!)

I fail miserably when I try to be funny, so I will spare any attempt to be witty (a quality I admire but do not possess). Thanks Raptor for sharing more of your story and explaining the process you experienced. Occasionally I unload my thoughts to RJ and he is gracious in giving a damn. I expressed to Raptor how the holidays are definitely a bit unsettling. Unsettling because my views of Jesus have definitely changed since the previous one and I found a bit of trepidation about my nativity scenes. I am not going to debate the whole Christmas/jesus/Santa thing, I am just expressing where I am at. I am in my "anti-label" phase...meaning universally labels (language) categorize us by our differences which overcomes what we all have in common being human. As soon as we are birthed, we get the the label male or female, then our ethnicity, and so on and so on. My view of Jesus since my disaffection from the church has changed dramatically--I am still processing what my view of the mythical and/or historical Jesus was. It is a work in progress. But, I should not worry that my bum sits the church pew at a Methodist church and that I enjoy the music, people, etc. I KNOW WHO I AM and I know that I love people. Time will tell how it all evolves. So if I had to label myself, At this point, I am a hopeful human being who attends a Christian church, who likes Buddhism and leans slightly to being Agnostic. But in all reality, I know who I am and most days I am pleased with who I am.

Thanks to all of you, even those who are polar opposite, for sharing your thoughts on all these threads. It is good to learn.

You have a high probability that you live around people who don't care about labels either.

That's something that's very refreshing about where I live. People like me for who I am and not for any kind of labels.

Definitely a big part of Mormonism--labels, but most religious associations, race, orientations, etc. I did not enjoy my years in Utah nor the years in Idaho. because of the high saturation.

Thank you for what you said about studying your way out of christianity as well as studying your way out of mormonism.

That's one of the most important things I've heard here. Nice passage.

Tiptoes--
I like your description of yourself as "a hopeful human being who attends a Christian church, who likes Buddhism and leans slightly to being agnostic." I have similar feelings, though I don't attend any church. When I lost my faith and was in that crazy place where I felt like I had just jumped into a bottomless pit and was free-falling for awhile, I sort of recoiled when I read things by the atheists on the board here. It was just too much for me to even contemplate the thought that the god I had spent so much of my life praying to might not be real. Then slowly, slowly, I began to be ok with the idea that things might not be what I had always believed, even if it meant that there was no god.
Now, I am in a place of uncertainty, but the anxiety of not knowing has been replaced with a calm spirit of acceptance and being ok with mystery.
I still believe that spirituality is important, and I'm trying to find a spiritual path that works for me.

RJ-- Thanks for putting it out there. You sure help to keep it fun and interesting!

It was nice meeting both of you at the conference. (My wife and I drove over from Reno, NV, and had a great time).

For me as well, the study of early Christianity played an important role in my leaving the Mormon Church. I cringe now at the way Nibley and other Mormon apologists abuse and distort early Christian writings.

Unlike you, however, I have more or less studied myself into belief. That sort of thing can happen.

Just happened upon this tonight. I consider myself agnostic.

What to do about Jesus at Christmas? Don't really know. I have a nativity set--that my mother made for me about 30 years ago--so it goes up every year no matter what. I consider Christmas a celebration of tradition, family, etc. My daughter and I were just talking about this--people are surprised at how many decorations we have (and we don't put them all up)--most of them have significance to us as someone gave them to us. We only buy one thing a year--usually an ornament.

I love some of the songs about Jesus--so I listen. This is the year I finally realized that I enjoy the music and I quit asking "was there a Jesus"--I can't know anything for sure. Most of the time I am very much at peace with just not knowing--though I, too, liked your statement about a hopeful human being. I'm hopeful.