Posted by:
Jesus Smith
(
)
Date: January 06, 2012 04:21PM
I understand that some took offense to my using the term "magical thinker" as if I meant it in a debasing, pejorative way.
No, not really. To me, the term magical thinking refers to those that believe in "real magic" of miraculous, supernatural or thaumaturgical events and powers. This opposed to the craft of magic by illusion.
(see this fun video
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=48ol4sHasA8#t=07m48s )
The reason I say this is because like "real magic" which has no explanation, it seems to me that magical thinkers have no way of truly explaining their spirituality in ways that can be assessed scientifically. As such, it becomes in the same category to me as how others see "real magic".
Personally, I believe in neither.
This is why I ask about where in the body/brain or person spirituality occurs. Where the memories of those experiences are stored.
From my perspective, the spiritual claims made here are not the same as those hypothesizing parallel universe, higgs bosons, etc because there is no experiment that can be done to rule them out. (Well, I will grant that the many worlds hypothesis is more difficult, but if you read your Hawkings, you can find that there are thought experiments to invalidate the hypothesis.)
There don't seem to be ways to invalidate spiritual claims because by definition they are defined or claimed as metaphysical. The former are not claimed in that realm. In fact, they are described by equations, which can (at the future) be possibly measured.
Now if one of you is saying that spirituality can be measured, then it is no longer metaphysical. And as such, we are back to where the atheist "spirituality" definitions become more valid.
I guess my issue is, those claiming that spirituality is outside of the physical and the only way to know if they exist is to experience them--they cannot be measured in a lab--are really making no different claim than Mormons about the truth of god's way being made known by the holy ghost.
This is problematic for me. I see the idea of any truth being made known by a metaphysical property/event/force/what-have-you as a compass spinning in all directions across the world. Been there done that in moism.
Reality-based, measurement capable "spirituality" (or consciousness based studies of well-being) are far more interesting and probably far more productive than haphazard wandering through a mystical and ill-defined something.
Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 01/06/2012 04:28PM by Jesus Smith.