Ah you missed the flame war 2 weeks ago on this one.

Short answer - most people on this board believe it is a cult depending on how you define cult.

...in reference to Mormonism.

At the time I was working as a church musician in a UCC church. During a break in choir rehearsal I was visiting with some of the members, talking about our origins and how we came to be associated with this large, liberal Protestant church congregation located in a university district. At some point in the conversation I told them I'd been raised in a cult.

This, of course, took everyone by surprise, and I was obligated to explain. I don't remember exactly what I said to substantiate the claim, but I remember leaving everyone in tacit agreement.

In the general scheme of important things this was a non-event. But I think I was just as surprised as the rest of them at what popped out. My use of the word, "cult" was instinctive and something I had never really given any thought. Certainly it pre-dated any research I had done on Mormonism and the very idea of the Internet. It actually wasn't until many years later that I decided the call was spot-on.

Yes. It is a cult. Or rather a Cult-cum-MLM scam.

Yes. But then, I believe all religions are cults. Anything that tells you who, what, when, where and how to believe is, in my mind, a cult.

and then I realized that the way I was able to "deprogram" myself was to go inactive and not go to church for a long time. They keep you going back so much so they can reinstill all that in your head. It was YEARS after I went inactive that it just all fell apart, yet still at times--especially when my daughter went back about 5 years ago--when trying to discuss it with her, I remember the good feelings, but I also remember the bad feelings and I have to shake my head to this day sometimes.

Don't think that there are still times I think, "If I just went back to church" and then I have to think about it LOGICALLY.

My niece actually was the first one who I heard say it is a cult--she said that about 6 years ago. She isn't even an ex-mormon--just VERY inactive. She was only 25 at the time. She hasn't studied all that we know either.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 01/06/2012 06:19PM by cl2.

There's no belief about it. It IS a cult, no if's and's or but's.

YES.

RfMer Baura wrote something excellent on this a while ago:



The word "cult" has different meanings in the dictionary and different shades of meaning within those meanings.

However, back when I was a TBM I took a sociology class in which the sociological definition of "cult" was given. As the teacher gave the characteristics of a "cult" I mentally noticed that every one of them fit Mormonism. That was OK by me because, hey, we were THE ONE-AND-ONLY TRUE CHURCH. That's what I'd expect the OAOTC to be like.

Much later in life I was a member of a choir at a Presbyterian Church. I sat through three years of services, announcements and sermons.

Never once did I hear of anyone being interviewed and pronounced "worthy."

Never once did I hear of the names of the leaders of the Presbyterian Church.

Never once did I hear anyone being exhorted to be obedient to any church leaders.

Never once did I hear that the Presbytarian Church was the one true church. In fact I heard announcements for religious happenings in other, non-Presbyterian churches.

Never once did I hear about needing a special "recomend" to be part of any worship service.

Never once did I hear about anyone being expected to spend two years as a full-time recruiter for the Presbyterian church.

Marriages in the Church were conducted in the chapel and the doors were open for anyone to attend.

The annual membership meeting gave a financial breakdown for the previous year.

It was then that I really understood how Mormonism was a cult and the Presbyterian church was not.

http://exmormon.org/phorum/read.php?2,372479,372767#msg-372767

Well, it has "last days" in title...

It also has very cult-like attributes (stresses perfect obedience to the current leaders, expressions of doubt are met with reprisals, distorted sense of reality, etc.)


When people say "cult" many people think of folks in Waco Texas or Jonestown. It's not that kind of cult, but I consider it a cult.

If you look at a list of cult characteristics, the Mormon church meets many or all of the definitions, depending on the list. Here is a compilation of lists:

http://www.prem-rawat-talk.org/forum/uploads/CultCharacteristics.htm

The part that I find really creepy about Mormonism is that if you go inactive, your name will come up before various church committees, and there will be concerted efforts to repeatedly contact you, visit your house, and reactivate you. This isn't done in the mainstream Christian churches; it would be considered far too intrusive.

Thanks for this link, Summer I had not seen it before.

Here is a very simple one page discussion of cults. Tell me how close you think the description is to mormonism, and particularly if you think the Key Points do, or do not, describe the church.

http://www.howcultswork.com/

I was in it. I lived it. Ergo... I can say the "church" is a cult for real. The Morg has all the trappings of a cult wrapped up in a nice little Phood-obey-guilt-CK-Kolob bow.

Oh, yeah, and it's freakin scary! Pay Lay what the???



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 01/06/2012 06:36PM by FreeRose.

The church has been trying hard to be mainstream for the last 120 years, so the definition gets a little blurry at times. Prior to the corporatization of the church, it was most definitely a cult:
Move to Zion, and live in the compound with other like-minded cult members in Kirtland/Missouri/Nauvoo/Salt Lake City with Joseph Smith/Brigham Young et al as your supreme divine infallible leader.

However, I believe there are different levels of cult-like behavior in the Church.

The temple is extremely cult-like.

The mission experience is cult-like.

Fast and testimony meeting...quite cultish.

The average sacrament meeting, except fast Sunday's, not too cult-like, unless you live in one of those weird wards.

The public personna the LDS Church tries to show the world: Not really very cult-like.

And that's how they getcha! In their own words, they get you "line upon line, precept upon precept, here a little, there a little" until you are a full-fledged member of a bona-fide cult.

Yes, a tithing cult.

:)

Misfit, I think blurry is the right word.

Because of its size, it has at least three layers, each a varying degree of classic cultishness.

It is possible to be involved with the church on a relatively casual level; to treat it like any other religion and limit the role it plays in your life. I remember meeting a girl at a job (not in the morridor) who told me she was Mormon, but only went to church on Christmas and Easter. Having grown up in SE Idaho, I found that idea sort of odd, as I had always heard that tradition from Christians and Catholics but in my experience Mormons tended to be all or nothing. Some people really do manage to treat it like a relatively "normal," if still somewhat odd, church.

Then there are those who really define themselves by the church but still manage to be reasonably healthy and independent and do not behave in especially cult like ways.

Then there are those who take it to an extreme, who are very definitely cultists by any definition of the word.

Another layer exists in the core leadership, but because that is shrouded in secrecy, it is harder to analyze.

It is this variety in experience that creates the controversy when attempting to define it. People who experienced or witnessed the extreme are right to call it a cult. Those who see the numerous people who manage to work Mormonism into their lives without the intense control and weirdness are right to question the use of the word.

Because they allow a large fringe of jackmos, inactives, and partially actives, rather than an exclusive model of "live in a compound or be cast out," it is definitely blurry.

Yes, but what bothers me more than the fact it fits the characteristics of a cult is the fact that it using mind control techniques, which are different than brainwashing but still as damaging. Maybe more so because so many mind control victims don't realize what's been done to them and what they've done wrong while under that control.

Here is a link to my favorite website on the subject, although there are other very good ones out there too:

http://howcultswork.com/

Yes, it's a cult. Check out CA girl's link. It was one of the (many) "nails in the coffin" for me.

The nicest term I can think of is "subculture." Mormonism is an American subculture. It began as a Yankee subcultural product and switched to redneck when it relocated to Utah. It has a long tradition of anti-intellectualism and mindless ritual. It seems very odd to outsiders. It has a compulsory priesthood for males.
And have you ever seen so many desert-dwellers who own boats?

Not anymore, or any less, than all the other religious groups out there. I remember summer Bible camp with the Baptists, Catechism with my Catholic neighbor friends, the Lutherans I worked with, etc.

They are all cults wrapped in vaguely different behaviors and names.

mormonism a cult? nah...let's see:


requires 10% of your income. for life. don't ask where the money goes. have faith.


requires everything from you even your own life, sacrifice your family if needed to build the kingdom.


requires you to wear special clothing with the fear of endless pain and mental anguish for all eternities if you don't


considers women as second class citizens


considers that men should rule, demand, and punish with tender voices. they have the priesthood.


teaches (secretly now) you are special and blessed if you are blond with blue eyes


gays and other non-conforming human beings are treated poorly and segregated


crimes against humanity (mountain meadows massacre) are ok to protect the truth.


requires the belief in horses before the europeans.


requires the belief that one whole empire vanished into thin air: entire cities, steel, human remains, coins, art, language, even hebrew DNA. even the geography changed.


..and don't you dare goddamn it to drink green tea! you'll void your right to rule your own galaxy someday!! so shape up or they'll have a word with you. full of love of course.

..

..

..


why do you ask if it's a cult?

Very funny actually

I used to defend the organization against such accusations, even after I'd left. But the more I learn about what a cult is, the more I realize that it really is one.

YES!

Yes. It took me a while to accept this. I've been out of the church 12 years, but only recently did I accept that the LDS Church is a cult.

The LDS Church meets nearly all of the criteria of a cult that have been laid out by experts and scholars in the field. There are several measures that I have seen, but in every one, the LDS Church lines up -- almost without exception -- to the traits of a cult.

One of the books that really helped me understand my experience in the LDS Church was Steve Hassan's "Combatting Cult Mind Control." He spoke at a recent Exmo Conference - it's online if you want to see it.

Depends. If by popular you mean like Jim Jones or the Branch Davidians, where they go out and do really horrible violent things because god is telling them to, then no, but it used to be. If by popular definition you mean mind controlling and micro managing their members lives like Scientology or the Moonies, then yes.

It's culty.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 01/06/2012 11:22PM by suckafoo.

As I posted on another thread:


If you believe that the only way god lets people into heaven is if they know four secret handshakes, it's not a cult.

If you believe the only way to learn the four secret handshakes is to give 10% of your gross income for the full financial year, then it's not a cult.

If you believe that you have to have a temple recommend to get into heaven and to get one you have to give 10% of your gross income for the full financial year continuously, year in year out, then it's not a cult.

If you believe god restored his church through a guy that wanted to have sex with lots of women, some married to other men, and teenage girls, similar to David Koresh, then it's not a cult.

If you feel comfortable singing "Praise to the Man" who taught those secret handshakes and married all those girls, then it's not a cult.

Good people can be members of cults, but the cults are still cults. People in cults don't believe they are in cults. People in cults can recognize other cults are cults and still don't think they are in cults.

+1000

Of course it is. Are demands made, are you being made to be guilt ridden if you don't follow the rules, Do people report on each other to a higher authority, is there a ton of secrecy and feeling that if you are IN "you are better than anyone else"???? and more than anything Are the minds of Mormons free to make choices perhaps different from the man or woman sitting next to them in "church"???? By all means it is a mind control cult. Freedom is not the strong point in Mormonism.

Absolutely. And yes, although I am an Atheist I do believe that it is BY FAR more cultish than most other christian religions. See Human's and Darth Jesus' posts.