My exmo brother called last night and asked me to explain to his wife why he doesn't want to see his eye doctor anymore since learning he is the bishop of his ward.

For the life of me, its on the tip of my brain but I can't seem to articulate why knowing that bit of information makes an exmo run for cover.

Anyone got a good way of explaining this to a non-Mormon?

Thanks!

1. His religious preference exposes a serious flaw in his ability to apply critical thinking skills.

2. His religious culture tends to lead faithful members of the church to take shortcuts in the real world which they justify as bleeding the beast.

3. 10% of the money he pays the guy will be used to perpetuate one of the greatest pyramid schemes of all time.

was TBM. Well, all our dentists have been TBM, but this one was ridiculous. I had a dentist when I was a kid who was the bishop and he and his assistant would talk about his ward members all through the appt.

Then this last dentist we had--he had book of mormons and Ensigns in his waiting room. Then he talked endlessly about the church while working. It gets rather annoying after a while. I loved his story about his ex-SIL who was addicted to porn. Many mormons don't know how to separate their religion from their daily work.

I have not had that experience myself with the LDS dentist or the LDS eye doctor. Both have been professional. No church talk at all. Neither have materials from church in their offices and their employees are not LDS.

I was worried a bit about the “bleeding the beast” attitude and getting “lesser” care because the thinking may be that I deserved it anyway being a divorced apostate. However I’m not in the morridor so reality is the locals would vote with their feet if they thought the dentist was mormon and especially if they thought his office was being used as a tool for conversion.

(shouldn't have said "if they thought the dentist was mormon". should have said " if they thought he was mormony at work".



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 01/13/2012 04:09PM by AmIDarkNow?.

Basically, he shouldn't see the Bishop/eye doctor in an attempt to avoid "even the appearance of evil".

He's an exmo now, he can't be seen fraternizing with that which is unclean.

Seriously, I don't like the elephant in the room--ever.

I'm speaking hypothetically(sp?) as if I don't think the TBM can respect boundries.

I worked very hard at insuring TBMs have no power and control over me. I still make sure at family gatherings I am dependant on no one, and can leave at any time.

While I'm sure the Eye Doctor will do his job just as well as anyone else, when I go into his office I put myself on his turf, and in his (very limited)control. If he wants to talk about what they have been doing in church lately, I have to decide if I want to just listen and nod, or raise a stink and offend. If he askes if I miss going to church, I can just say no, but if he asks why not, again I have to decide if I want to offend, BECAUSE HE WILL BE OFFENDED... I don't need the added drama in my life.

Soooo..., Why do I want to put myself in that situation, if I have other options? It's kind of like the fellow that comes into the sauna and complains about how hot it is. Don't go in the sauna.

As a side note both my Dentist and Eye Doctors are TBM, but one only wants to talk about golf and skiing, and the other playing guitar, and never bring up tscc. So if I know they will respect my boundries I have no problem with tbms.

well said!

"So if I know they will respect my boundries I have no problem with tbms."

that's the crux of it for me, too - so many TBMs don't respect boundaries that it's just easier to avoid them when i can

It would only matter to me if the doctor knew I was an ex-Mormon. If he doesn't know anything about me, then I wouldn't care. I don't think a Mormon is any less competent than a non-Mormon. I just don't want to put up with the lack of boundaries and the uncomfortable situation that Mormons cause when they think they have you where they want you. People in my old ward went bonkers when I left the Church, and I would not put myself in that situation again.

+1 to that--why put yourself in that situation if you have a choice?

Ever since my emergency root canal while in the MTC, I've avoided TBM dentists. This prick completely skipped the nitrous (this was in '82 when EVERYBODY still got the stuff), barely used the novocaine and refused me a prescription for pain pills. Instead, he suggested I buy a bottle of Extra Strength Excedrine for "any lingering pain". As soon as I returned to the Empty Sea, I bought and downed 2 ESEs, unfortunately before reading that each pill contains 65mg of caffiene. I followed those two with another pair after an hour of undiminished pain.

I was a hardcore CTBM (California TBM) and my previous experience with caffiene was limited to a few very guilt ridden cans of Dr Pepper. (My dad was a very "spirit of the law" type, he once yelled at me for drinking a 7-Up out of a Coke cup at the county fair). Needless to say, those 260mg of caffiene jacked me up like I'd never imagined possible. I've since had acid trips that were less surreal than that night.

I roamed the Empty halls most of the night, eventually looking for the fabled underground tunnels. I never got to the tunnels, but I did find a giggling group of Elders gathered around another, who was clad only in his fancy new two-piece mesh G's. Said Elder was cunched down with his face brushing the carpet and his ass in the air (a position disturbingly similar to the way I'd pray in my bottom bunk). I quickly learned the reason for the unseemly hilarity; that sphincter savant had somehow learnt circular "breathing" through his final passage. He could fart, uninterrupted, for a good 90 second or better, a feat that I've never seen repeated.

The next day, my companion (I've always loved the homosexual tone of that word usage) took pity on me and gave me a couple of Tylenol 3s; I gave thanks unto the Lord and slept a pure dreamless sleep.

Dude! The farting guy was my companion in 83'! That or it is a more widespread skill than we think. He tried to teach it to me but alas, i was unable to acquire the skill.

While tracting, our entire mission did learn to hammer our shoe down on any stray empty potato chip bags creating a large "pop". Yes the valuable skills we learn...

Had to be him. How widespread could that talent run? I did accidentally reproduce the results once while praying, but not for anything close to 90 seconds. As tickled as I was, guilt forced me to supress and hide that particular talent under a bushel.

He's a bigot?

It's a trust issue. It's hard to trust Mormons. Partly because it's impossible to trust Mormonism. The religion itself lies and and when you base you whole life on their lies - then find out the truth, it really messes with your trust. The religion programs it's members to act and think alike and the members put their lying religion above any friend. So, when enough members stab you in the back, and since members act alike, you start to think that you can't trust any Mormon. Just when you think you've found a couple you trust, one of them pulls some dumb Mormon stunt and you are back ten steps in the Learning To Trust again process. Pretty soon your automatic first response is not to trust Mormons in any situation, even when the mistrust is not warranted.

That's my take on the subject, but I had two people on my Mormons I trust list do really stupid things in the last couple of weeks and so trusting Mormons is not on my to do list at the moment.

Just because a Mormon lacks critical thinking skills in one compartment of life doesn't mean they are a poor doctor, dentist, plumber, what have you. What, you think your no-mo professional is any less quirky? Get over it!

My dentist (a stake president) threatened me with excommunication - twice - because he didn't like my political activities (I was an activist to preserve a nude beach).

So what. He still did my teeth and we got along fine. He was a good dentist. I should give that up?

Eventually life went on and my current dentist is a biker. He keeps a Harley in his front office. He has trouble relating to women. But he is a good dentist and we get along fine.

:-)

You know, if people could just "get over it", why would this board even exist? People have to work out their stuff and if one of the things they took out of Mormonism is that they want nothing to do with TBMs, personally or professionally, why SHOULD they get over it? There are plenty of good doctors who aren't Mormon to choose from. I had a non-LDS dentist that was always lecturing me in a very patronizing way. I didn't like his attitude so I got a new dentist, a young guy who looks like Doogie Houser MD and is terrific, despite being reasonably new to the profession. I didn't need to get over the non-LDS dentist - I needed a dentist I felt comfortable with and trusted. And for some people, they can't get that from a Mormon for whatever reason. So that's a legitimate excuse to move on.

Oh, and Doogie, I found out much later, is LDS. Fine by me. But I do understand how hard it is to trust Mormons and how impossible it is to just get over it, no matter what Mormon issue we are talking about.

"Oh, and Doogie, I found out much later, is LDS. Fine by me."

Sounds like you got over it.

Mårv Fråndsen Wrote:
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+1 I agree - evaluate skill not religion when looking for professionals, etc. Mormons that I know are as trustworthy and honest as anyone else.
We have LDS friends and relatives and trust them and enjoy their company in our home, at lunch, etc.
Disparaging a whole religious group of people is just plain nutty, in my view.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 01/14/2012 04:24PM by SusieQ#1.

Other than incompetence, the only reason I would reject an LDS doctor would be if I disliked him or if he couldn't keep his religious views to himself. I have never had that problem.

I only care if the doctor thinks he has any kind of healing power from anyting but his education and experience.
I have started asking them, if they are a true professional, it doesn't matter. Living in utah, I have somehow managed to have all of my doctors non relgious.

I have never had religion come up with one exception. My neurologist asked me if about my religion after seeing my cross. I told him that it was jewelry and that I wasn't particularly religious and that was the end of it. I have lived in Utah all my life and, other than that one time, I have never been asked. I did have a dentist who metnioned that he was a descendent of Brigham Young, but that came up naturally as a result of Pioneer Day. Most doctors are professional in my experience.I do not know or care what religion my doctors are.

I do not want my money supporting that sort of thinking and I would not want to put my health in the hands of such a judgmental person.

Yeah, I know that not all LDS are so judgmental, but there is a very high risk that they are. Even if they are not, it is very likely that 10 % of their money goes to an organization that IS very judgmental in a negative way.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 01/13/2012 11:45PM by MJ.

I would not want a Mormon eye doctor either. If he screwed my eyes up would he lay his hands on me? Creepy. I would rather have a eye doctor who believes in little people.

Because the thinking of mormons is myopic. (Pun intended)

There is more (purpose) to life than what mormons want/allow other people to have. And not too many of us want to be nagged regarding things we've already escaped.

I've got a mormon dentist but I don't think he's TBM. Instead of having a picture of the profit on his wall he's got Che Guevara.

I have gone to drs. in the past who lectured on WOW all the time. One of them was so fanatic that he felt that pepper and chili should be illegal. Hmm I always thought spices were good for you.

All told I prefer to keep medicine and religion separate.

Black pepper in large quantities is not particularly good for you but chili peppers are very good for your health. That Dr. was an idiot who probably never read a medical paper or book after getting his degree.

Simple as that.

Someone who preaches prayer (and/or prayer and fasting), laying of hands and blessings as part of treating medical conditions, as he would no doubt advise his members to do for their problems (based on your experience in the church), is not a doctor tied closely enough to science to satisfy your comfort level.

I don't think so.

Trust is an important part of being open with a doctor.

My primary doctor is a female because more at ease sharing with her than I would be with a male. I get better care because of the trust and comfort factor.

She has asked about preferences when she refers me to specialists. I don't insist on female doctors but I would choose one if all else is equal.

Doctors understand this idea and know it impacts diagnosis, treatment, and healing.

Would I like to go to a doctor who has ten wives at home wearing black from head to toe to protect their honor for religious reasons. No, I'd be uncomfortable with a dotor who had an attitude like that toward women.

Mormons believe that I am and unworthy apostate. I am not comfortable sharing or trusting anyone who sees me as a pathetic lesser being. I would never want to go to such a doctor. Anyone who says I must is mistaken.

I think a mormon doctor would put his church and other devout mormons ahead of my needs. I refuse to pay for that.

I refuse to take a chance of dying or going blind because someone thinks it's nice and pleasant to prove openess by going to dotors who perfer mormons over me.

I have spine problems. The neurosurgeon I see drinks coffee and isn't religious. The pain doc who also does procedures close to my spine is an atheiest. I asked. Wanted to make sure that relying on faith would never be part of his procedures.

It's important to me to know that their education and experience matter. My dentist is LDS and an excellent dentist. But he never talks about religion to me anyway.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 01/14/2012 10:16PM by beansandbrews.

I'm blind in one eye and had problems with it all my life. When I was in my teens, Dr. Merrill Oaks (Dallin's brother) was a surgeon who took excellent care of me. He was wonderful and never brought up religion while I was in his office. Imagine my surprise when I found out that he is now a General Authority and was the one who, a few years ago, coined the term, "Ignore what dead prophets said. That is why we have living prophets." (something like that). It made me sad.