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Posted by: steve benson ( )
Date: January 23, 2012 03:24AM

Time, once again, to rock the wacky-religious world of the TBM faithful who secretly lurk here:

The Book of Mormon was so problematic for Joseph Smith that he wanted to dump it early on and, in fact, did--literally.

--Joseph Smith Buries the Book of Mormon

Smith, when helping to lay a cornerstone for the Nauvoo House on 2 October 1841, approved the placement of an original Book of Mormon manuscript (composed mostly in the handwriting of Oliver Cowdery and appropriately written on foolscap paper) into the Nauvoo House cornerstone with the following send-off comment (made a short time earlier by Smith to another prominent Mormon leader):

"I have had trouble enough with this thing."

Amen, brother.

(see Ernest H. Taves, "Trouble Enough: Joseph Smith and the Book of Mormon" [Buffalo, New York: Prometheus Books, 1984], p. 160)

Indeed, William Alexander Linn, in his book, "The Story of the Mormons: From the Date of Their Origin to the Year 1901" , sets the stage for Smith's deep-sixing of this supposed "sacred scripture":

"[P]roof [that] . . . a second [manuscript] copy [of the Book of Mormon] did exist [is found in the account of Ebenezer Robinson]. . . . Robinson, who was a leading man in the [Mormon] church from the time of its establishment in Ohio until Smith's death, says in his recollections that, when the people assembled on October 2, 1841, to lay the cornerstone of [the] Nauvoo House, Smith said he had a document to put into the cornerstone, and Robinson went with him to his house to procure it. Robinson's tory proceeds as follows:

"'He got a manuscript copy of the Book of Mormon and brought it into the room where we were standing and said, "I will examine to see if it is all here;" and as he did so I stood near him, at his left side, and saw distinctly the writing as he turned up the pages until he hastily went through the book and satisfied himself that it was all there, when he said, "I have had trouble enough with this thing;" which remark struck me with amazement, as I looked upon it as a sacred treasure."

(William Alexander Linn, "The Story of the Mormons: From the Date of Their Origin to the Year 1901" [New York, New York: The MacMillan Company, 1902], p. 44; original text at: "Google Books" link to the page at:

--Joseph Smith Admits He Made It All Up--

One shouldn't be surprised by Smith's abandonment of the so-called "keystone" of the Mormon religion; nor should one be surprised by Smith's utter disdain for what he regarded as the simple-minded stupidity of those who actually bought into his lies.

To be sure, Smith had a habit (about which he privately boasted to his friends) of making up stories about imaginary "golden Bibles," then playing it out even further for his incredulous associates when Smith discovered that they actually swallowed his tall tales hook, line and sinker.

Case in point, as one of Smith's close acquaintances, Peter Ingersoll, testified in an affidavit certified by a local judge:

"One day he [Joseph Smith] came and greeted me with a joyful countenance. Upon asking the cause of his unusual happiness, he replied in the following language, 'As I was passing, yesterday, across the woods, after a heavy shower of rain, I found, in a hollow, some beautiful white sand, that had been washed up by the water. I took off my frock, and tied up several quarts of it, and then went home.

"'On my entering the house, I found the family at the table eating dinner. They were all anxious to know the contents of my frock. At that moment, I happened to think of what I had heard about a history found in Canada, called the golden Bible; so I very gravely told them it was the golden Bible.

"'To my surprise, they were credulous enough to believe what I said. Accordingly I told them that I had received a commandment to let no one see it, for, says I, no man can see it with the naked eye and live. However, I offered to take out the book and show it to them, but they refuse to see it, and left the room.'

"Now, said Joe, 'I have got the damned fools fixed, and will carry out the fun.' Notwithstanding, he told me he had no such book and believed there never was any such book, yet, he told me that he actually went to Willard Chase, to get him to make a chest, in which he might deposit his golden Bible. But, as Chase would not do it, he made a box himself, of clapboards, and put it into a pillow case, and allowed people only to lift it, and feel of it through the case."

("Peter Ingersoll Statement on Joseph Smith, Jr.," sworn affidavit, Palymra, Wayne County, New York, 2 December 1833, affirmed as being truthful by Ingersoll under oath and in a personal appearance before Thomas P. Baldwin, Judge of Wayne County Court, 9 December 1833; for Ingersoll's entire affidavit, see:


Joseph Smith was not a believer in the Book of Mormon that he peddled as being divine. Pure and simple, he was a fraud and a conman. In his quieter moments, out of earshot of the blindly faithful, he admitted that faithless fact.

Edited 4 time(s). Last edit at 01/23/2012 04:57PM by steve benson.

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Posted by: paylayale ( )
Date: January 23, 2012 08:23AM

Steve I have always enjoyed your commentary because you are so informed. If you would comment of on the following our readers might appreciate it.

The most imprtant verse in the bible is Genesis 3:15 which is mirrored exactly in Moses 4:21. Both talk about the seed of Satan. What actually hapened is that Satan seduced Eve in the Garden and had children. Christ refers to Satan's children in John 8:44. There are other confirming verses. Cain was Satan's child and this is confirmed in I John 3:10-12. A & E covered their private parts for a reason. If they had eaten an apple they would have covered their mouths.

Nowhere in the Temple ceremony is this concept mentioned. I wonder why?

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Posted by: steve benson ( )
Date: January 23, 2012 11:12AM

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Posted by: Raptor Jesus ( )
Date: January 23, 2012 10:58PM

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Posted by: zenjamin ( )
Date: April 13, 2018 07:18PM

Been around since the Gnostics - around 1500+ years or so

Creative species are we.

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Posted by: freeman ( )
Date: January 23, 2012 04:37PM

Given there was probably no "Adam", no "Eve", no "Satan" and no "fruit", it is rather pointless speculating what *actually* happened.

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Posted by: freeman ( )
Date: January 23, 2012 04:39PM

It's no wonder JS had enough of BoM - he didn't write it and it contradicted his religious beliefs. He much prefered the D&C as this is where his "commandments" were written.

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Posted by: kimball ( )
Date: February 15, 2012 11:32AM

I've never dredged up an old topic like this before, but I read something in Lucy Mack's biography yesterday that reminded me of this thread.

Mopologists like to find fault with "Mormonism Unvailed," which contains the Peter Ingersoll quote in the orignal post above. They then use this fault, along with arguments like "Hurlebut had an axe to grind" to justify the argument that Peter Ingersoll's testimony can't be trusted.

I think it's safe to say that Lucy's work is a sufficiently indepedent source from Mormonism Unvailed as to eliminate the possibility of bias or conspiracy. Also, Lucy moved out of the vicinity of Peter Ingersoll in 1830, 3-4 years before Mormonism Unvailed came out. If Lucy confirms any of Peter's testimony, that would be significant.

Speaking of the court hearing of 1929, where Martin Harris' wife gathered Smith neighbors to bring charges against Joseph Smith of defrauding her husband, Lucy Mack says:

"The 1st Witness testified that Joseph Smith told him that the box which he had contained nothing but sand and he only said it was gold plates to deceive the people."

Now granted, we don't know for a fact that this first witness was Peter Ingersoll, but I think we have a pretty good idea. She then lists 2 other witnesses who claimed Joseph Smith admitted his fraud to them, though with different details. If I were Joseph, at this point I'd be saying "I'll never spill the beans again." And he didn't.

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Posted by: Badassadam1 ( )
Date: April 13, 2018 05:23PM

What in the hell? Satan and eve had children? Jeeeesus christ religion gets whackier and whackier.

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Posted by: Badassadam1 ( )
Date: April 13, 2018 05:29PM

I am curious who came up with all the stories of the book. I know some of it was copied but was it all copied?

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Posted by: Dent ( )
Date: January 23, 2012 11:13AM

to sell the copyright to the highest bidder tells you he didn't value it too much.

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Posted by: upsidedown ( )
Date: January 23, 2012 11:40AM

+1 Dent

How in the world could the LDSinc believe that something is sacred when it was for sale. Documented in the D&C as a foolish effort to follow a revelation to go sell it in Canada.

Q: Who sells a book copyright as an actual revelation from God?

Answer: A writer/writers who want to turn a profit.

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Posted by: ipseego ( )
Date: January 23, 2012 04:32PM

Some comments: Genesis 3:15 is about the snake, not Satan. There is no place in the Bible were the snake in Genesis is identified with Satan. In John 8:44 Jesus does not mean to say that the Jews he is talking to are literally children of Satan.

On selling the copyright: I think that in Joseph Smith's days "selling the copyright" was like "finding a publisher" today.

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Posted by: enoughenoch19 ( )
Date: January 23, 2012 05:10PM

The trouble with many TBMs is that they have prophet mixed up with profit. The almighty dollar rules TSCC.

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Posted by: Badassadam1 ( )
Date: April 13, 2018 05:32PM

enoughenoch19 Wrote:
> The trouble with many TBMs is that they have
> prophet mixed up with profit. The almighty dollar
> rules TSCC.

It isn't jesus running the show that's for sure.

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Posted by: zelphoncrack ( )
Date: April 13, 2018 01:00PM

If only Lucy Harris had left behind a journal/diary. That would have been dynamite.

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Posted by: zenjamin ( )
Date: April 13, 2018 07:51PM

"Belief" finds its origin in structurally (cytoarchitectonically) less complex (and therefore more primitive) "limbic" brain, where drives live.
It precedes logic and reason. (It is also why reason and evidence are often ineffective at catapulting the believer into reality; reason is simply an expendable [cortical] superstructure constructed on top of a foundation of [limbic] belief.)

So - the "hooked" must arrange reason - like a defensive circle of wagons - to support and shield the core belief.
As wagons are knocked off by hard evidence - with fewer wagons the circle gets tighter, but isn't broken.
The remaining (tighter) circle is harder to break.
It is the siege mentality of the corporation today.

What an embarrassment to the hooked must be such evidence as here presented.
All that may be done is demonize the light, cry victimhood -- and burrow deeper into darkness.
Circle those wagons ever tighter.

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