I'm surprised that creep didn't try to get the boy's pants off!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XSQTz1bccL4

It seems extreme, but they may have had good reason to target this family or not.It is hard to say without knowing circumstances. They may have had a tip that they felt they had to act on.If someone hid a weapon on a child and used it to hijack or blow up a plane and security hadn't found it, we would all be complaining about that.Terrorists have used children.

Good reason or not, to me it is inappropriate to do such searches in public view, but I guess you would not mind if it happened to you or your family.

And no, I am NOT suggesting that the boy be searched in private. I am suggesting that if they are going to strip search and pat down little boys and girls, they should take them AND their parent of guardian behind a screen.

I, for one would not want to be stripped and searched in public view, but I guess that is just one more of the many differences between me and you.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 11/22/2010 03:40AM by MJ.

You say, "we would all be complaining about that", and the simple answer is, no, we wouldn't.

Some of us are mature adults who recognize that the world is a dangerous place and that we don't need to have our liberties taken away piece-by-piece just because some of you have decided that it's better to cower and "be safe". What good is safety without freedom and dignity?

I don't need my government to replace fear of relatively infrequent events with dread of certain ones. I'd rather we live as a free people with the risks that that entails than as cowards.

Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 11/22/2010 04:19AM by MJ.

and stand up against being treated like criminals in their own country.

Sickening. I will no longer be flying unless absolutely necessary until these practices are stopped. Please consider doing the same, and please encourage your family and friends to also do the same.

You might have a point, but a little boy isn't going to react the same way to having his shirt removed as an adult woman would.I really think a comparison with how an adult woman such as myself would react and a small boy is bogus. I doubt a woman or girl would be asked to remove her shirt in public.My niece is older than than that kid and she still runs around in the buff with no with no embarrassment at all.I do agree that it would have been better to do it in private.I am willing to go through some embarrassment such as a body scan if it is proven to make flying safer, It beats the hell out of having my plane turned into a flying bomb.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 11/22/2010 03:45AM by bona dea.

For the rest of the time he is in school, he will have to live with the teasing and that video impacting his life. I am appalled by the fact that the search was done in such a way that anyone could film it. How many perves have films of the same sort thing but they don't put it on youtube, but use it for sexual stimulation?

Why are you defending this bona, you get a trill from it? It was inappropriate, bona, and even YOU should realize that, but I am not surprised that you would not recognize the inappropriateness of this.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 11/22/2010 03:54AM by MJ.

MJ Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> For the rest of the time he is in school, he will
> have to live with the teasing and that video
> impacting his life. I am appalled by the fact that
> the search was done in such a way that anyone
> could film it. How many perves have films of the
> same sort thing but they don't put it on youtube,
> but use it for sexual stimulation?
>
> Why are you defending this bona, you get a trill
> from it? It was inappropriate bona and even YOU
> should realize that, but I am not surprised that
> you would not recognize the inappropriateness of
> this.
Your comment is totally disgusting and inappropriate. First of all, I am not defending it. I said it should have been done in private. Second, I certainly did not get a thrill out of it and your implication was disgusting. And third, you can't see the kid's face, so I doubt he is going to be teased. Besides he looks like he is about 4 years old. I doubt too many of his peers watch you tube or that the video will still be around when they are old enought to access it.Fourth, just because I don't entirely agree with you, doesn't mean I can't express an opinion. You really need to grow up. Good night.Please, feel free to get in the last word.

bona dea Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> MJ Wrote:


> Your comment is totally disgusting and
> inappropriate.

You are ____ right I'm going to get the last word on this, when it comes to inappropriate conduct with minors, I would argue to the last word against a member of Nambla, and I would argue to the last word against anyone else that would minimize or seek to excuse it because the boy was only 4, even you.

No, it was not inappropriate of disgusting, what IS disgusting is your defense of this saying that somehow because THIS boy was 4 it was somehow not so bad, but what if some perve was in another part of the line filling that then using the video for sexual gratification? And what the F does it matter if it was a boy or a girl? You doubt a small girl would be put to this but somehow it is OK for a small boy? What sexist BS.

> First of all, I am not defending
> it.

Yes, you are, you are telling us why it might be legitimate for them to do this to boys, if that is not defending it, then you are more detached from reality than I already believed, and that would be hard to do.

> I said it should have been done in private.
> Second, I certainly did not get a thrill out of
> it and your implication was disgusting. And third,
> you can't see the kid's face, so I doubt he is
> going to be teased. Besides he looks like he is
> about 4 years old. I doubt too many of his peers
> watch you tube or that the video will still be
> around when they are old enough to access

Why would being 4 have anything to do with this? The video may be available for years and guess what bona, people can be recognized from the back. And why are you making excuses for this if you you are not defending it? Oh, that's right you had to brag about how your older niece goes around in the buff, BY HER PRIVATE CHOICE. I doubt her guardians would let you run though an Airport terminal in the buff, and I would be shocked if they felt it would be an OK thing for that TSA guy to that to their daughter.

> it.Fourth, just because I don't entirely agree
> with you, doesn't mean I can't express an opinion.
> You really need to grow up. Good night.Please,
> feel free to get in the last word.

Yeah, NAMBLA does not agree with me either and they are free to express their opinion as well.

As for getting in the last word, you are damn right, bona, I would fight to the last word any one that would make of reasons for why it is not such a bad thing for a 4 year old to be strip searched in public. I would fight to the last word with NAMBLA, I will fight to the last word with you.

This was inappropriate, PERIOD, and I am appalled that you do not see how inappropriate is is, appalled, not surprised.



Edited 3 time(s). Last edit at 11/22/2010 04:21AM by MJ.

I had a trauma last night; bd said something on a thread addressed to me, and it was almost reasonable...

To Godwinize this one, if this were Germany in the 1940's, she'd be denying the Holocaust was taking place...

Louder on the NAMBLA crapola, MJ. It's one of Ann Coulter's favorite taling points used to dis' gays and gay rights...

Ann Coulter advocates racial profiling instead of high-tech scans and complete searches. Bill O'Reilly agreed.

And I can't condone public strip searches of anyone. I don't disagree with the thorough searches - I wouldn't want to get on a plain where passengers hadn't been scanned or searched adequately - but they shouldn't be done in public view.

Osama Bin Laden and Al Quaeda have won...

Cars have been used as terror weapons, so how about patting down everyone that uses a car or even rides in one? Oh, and we better make sure the TSA secures where ever cars are parked, even when they are parked at home, to be sure nobody can get to the car and secretly plant a bomb!

Where is it going to stop? Patting down and groping children does nothing to prevent terrorist attacks like Oklahoma City, and the first Trade Center bombing.

Another thing: we're always telling little kids these days about yelling if they fell like they're being touched inappropriately. I'm waiting for the video where the kid is screaming BAD TOUCH MOMMY BAD TOUCH as the TSA agent feels him/her up.

a kid's shirt off if they speak up and say what they were taught to say?

I'm outraged for the child's sake. : (

And I'm deeply sadded that the government and people in this country have sunk to such depths. : ( : (

sheeple let the Govt abuse them the way our govt does with these sexual asults. I say that all the people who think that govt agents grabing your genitles or looking at your naked body is alright can't bitch about bishops who inquire into your sex habbits or thier childrens sexual practices.

Don't be a sheep! Stand up for Human rights!!

I respectfully disagree with Bona's point of view. I'm not sure that most child psychologists would agree with Bona either. I believe such practices harm children. Based on my limited knowledge of child psychology doing searches in private could be even more psychologically damaging, and could open up opportunities for abuse.

The problem is this: Where do you draw the line? Naked pictures? Irradiating people? Patting down children? Cavity searches? Restraints while on the plane? If we simply put everyone in handcuffs for the duration of your flight, and told you that it was for "your own safety," would you actually feel safer?

I personally don't feel that being embarrassed is worth making flying safer. I don't believe these types of activities actually make flying safer based on evidence and personal experience. The TSA has crossed the line between reasonable inconvenience (taking off shoes, bag searches, etc), and gone straight for embarrassing in one bold step.

The sheeple will continue buying the line that this is actually some how making them safer. Having left Mormonism, I hope that my BS detector is a little more sensitive than the average person. Right now, I'd say the TSA's BS reading is at threat level red.

And yes, someone that knows the family might very well be able to identify a boy and his father when they are together from behind.

Just look at the 4th Amendment. They should never be searching ALL American citizens without probable cause. This crap makes me sick...

"They who can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety, deserve neither liberty nor safety." - Benjamin Franklin

I agree with Mr. Franklin in the above quote.

Nalicea,

Have you read the wikipedia article on the 4th amendment? It has some interesting links to relevant cases. The 4th amendment does not apply in all situations, in all places, or even all the time. The courts have been narrowing what the 4th means for decades. Read the section about exceptions, most notably the border search exception.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fourth_Amendment_to_the_United_States_Constitution

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Border_search_exception

The TSA has some legal justification to do, no doubt about it. I'm sure a pack of lawyers out there is already looking for the right case. Maybe we'll all carry "TSA Checkpoint Legal Insurance" in the future?

Her stony facial expression and body language scream revulsion toward the public and a mighty sense of self-importance.

She makes my skin crawl the way she beckons her next victim to slink forward.

MJ I hate to defend the TSA. But.....there is more to this story.
The video was taken at the SLC airport and there is an article in the Salt Lake Tribune that describes the incident and it was the father that removed his son's shirt in frustration wanting to get it over with because his son was resisting.

Please understand that I despise the fact that children or anyone else is going through this to be able to fly.

But....

I'm getting worried about all the stories and videos being circulated that may be exaggerated or may not be true. I'm disgusted with the rights we are giving up for the sake of being safe, but we need all the facts to know what to do next.

And I also don't think it's correct to sexualize a pat down. I don't believe those TSA agents are homosexuals or pedophiles trying to feel people's genitals to get off. I have heard people express that view. sheesh

The link:

Utah man posts video of TSA searching shirtless boy | The Salt Lake Tribune:

http://www.sltrib.com/sltrib/home/50725057-76/tait-tsa-video-shirt.html.csp

It's still terrible for the little guy to be humiliated in public that way.

TSA should have stopped the father from doing this and reassured the boy.

I went through the new pat down two weekends ago. Here's your first person "it's absolutely true" account.

It's molestation, pure and simple. I left the security area shaking and in tears. My breasts were squeezed, fingers were run down the center of my crotch multiple times. No one but my husband has ever touched me as intimately as this man did (I am female - the whole "same sex" thing isn't true either).

I refuse to fly while this is in place unless necessary. I'll take the 1 in several million risk chance with a terrorist. I don't want the 100% chance of being molested to fly.

OMG Kestrafinn that is awful! And I certainly didn't mean to imply that they weren't touching people they way you were. I believe it is happening. I'm so sorry you went through that.
This is all just makes me so angry. What is happening to this country?! I'm stunned that it has gotten to this point.

unless there's evidence that they are criminals.

As far as I'm concerned, these patdowns are abuse. It's worse if there's sexual intent, but still very bad if there isn't.

Never Mo Wife and Mom Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> MJ I hate to defend the TSA. But.....there is more
> to this story.
> The video was taken at the SLC airport and there
> is an article in the Salt Lake Tribune that
> describes the incident and it was the father that
> removed his son's shirt in frustration wanting to
> get it over with because his son was resisting.
>

Good for the kid, bad for the father. A father that would let his kid get groped in public out of "frustration" isn't a good father in my opinion.


> Please understand that I despise the fact that
> children or anyone else is going through this to
> be able to fly.
>
> But....

But, What are you going to do eh? When it comes down to a choice, flying or letting children get abused, let the abuse begin, right? Sacrifice the children so you can fly, pthhhht.

>
> I'm getting worried about all the stories and
> videos being circulated that may be exaggerated or
> may not be true. I'm disgusted with the rights we
> are giving up for the sake of being safe, but we
> need all the facts to know what to do next.
>

The fact is, we are giving up are rights and I am going to fight giving up those rights, you? As for that video not being true, it looks pretty authentic to me.

> And I also don't think it's correct to sexualize a
> pat down. I don't believe those TSA agents are
> homosexuals or pedophiles trying to feel people's
> genitals to get off. I have heard people express
> that view. sheesh
>

What you think they are is not important, they do not need to be homosexuals or pedophiles to be violating rights or inappropriately touching kids. NOBODY said they were homosexual or pedophiles, I said only that what they are doing is INAPPROPRIATE, and it is INAPPROPRIATE if it is done by HETEROSEXUALS, homosexuals or pedophiles. I am disgusted with your implication that only homosexuals or pedophiles can behave in inappropriate ways. sheesh.

stands for "Tits" "Slits" and " Asses." That's their search mantra. I'm surprised at the disdain for TSA though. I've got no problem with the full body scans....even though I often get pulled aside because of the suspected baton I carry in the front of my trousers. I wouldn't have a problem with a pat down either. Have you people forgotten the underwear bomber? Sheesh! Ben Franklin didn't have to deal with Al Queda. Go ahead TSA, grab my nutsack. But do a proper job of it. Use both hands!

then who posted it on YouTube the responsibility for filming the kid and then posting it on YouTube. TSA didn't film or post it.

Fliers are safer because of this practice. It is not government sticking their nose in too far because no one is required to do these searches to live here. You are perfectly able to get around the country by train or bus. You don't have to fly and thus you don't have to submit to these searches.

Its not a sexual touch anyway. Just because my "junk" is touched doesn't mean I am aroused or even think about sex. I have submitted to these before and as soon as I walk away it is out of my head.

People are making way too much of this.

Groping that kid may or may not enhance security at airports, but it does nothing to prevent terrorism, as you say, terrorists are free to use trains and buses, but you forgot, they are also free to use cars and trucks as used in Oklahoma City and the first Trade Center bombing. We better start allowing our children to be molested before we give them rides in our cars.

the people they need to be screening, they are harassing the wrong people just to be politically correct.
Honey, your plane could still crash because of ice or sleepy pilots. Life is not safe. Get over it.

I will NEVER fly again, nor will I ever allow my 24 year old daughter who has Down Syndrome to fly ever again. First of all I wouldn't want to subject her to those invasive full body scanners, but could you imagine if they decided they wanted to do a pat-down on her? I wouldn't put it past them with what I just saw on this video.

I'm guessing that the airline industry is going to be hurting even more because of this ridiculousness.

TG

I just read this in an article on Yahoo and I was looking for a place on here to post it:

"But at the same time, he said a relatively small proportion of the 34 million people who have flown since the new procedures went into effect have had the body pat downs that have come under withering criticism in recent days."

So--it is okay if some have been abused? Is that the idea?

I don't plan on flying. The article states that there is an internet movement to stop flying, but he is pleading with people not to so that it won't disrupt the industry. Bull!

As for bona dea saying "this is a little boy"--my son would have been traumatized by someone removing his shirt. So what if it is a little boy--who runs around in the buff AT HOME AROUND PEOPLE HE KNOWS. This was INAPPROPRIATE. It has gone too far. Everyone I've talked to is boycotting flying. My boyfriend is driving here this TG rather than fly like he usually does.

They are taking away our rights one by one--and some of us aren't going to take it anymore.

And for those of you who think this makes you safer flying, are you kidding me????????????????? My boyfriend used to fly weekly for work FOR YEARS. He says this is all bull.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 11/22/2010 01:21PM by cl2.

Most little boys would be traumatized having their shirt stripped of with imaptience that way in public and then being handled roughly by strangers.

He looks 5 or 6 years old, a school aged kid who will probably be teased about it by his classmates.

As a mom, I saw how even my tiny babies reacted to having their clothes removed and being handled and probed.

At home they loved kicking and giggling from feeling free of clothes before and after bathing.

But with near strangers at the doctor's office, they screamed with outrage and fear from the minute they were undressed until the doctor finished with them and I had a chance to dress and comfort them.

Traumatic incidents are most upsetting to the youngest kiddies who suffer them. As we mature, we gain perspective and skill to deal that little children don't have.

What happens to these kids in airports might cause lingering bad memories and upset for years.

Israel Airport security

compare and contrast with the US TSA

which country has the bigger threat of terrorism?
which country deals with it in a mature manner?
which country takes more time to get you through security
which country make you go barefoot and beltless
which country will cling to its security procedures, pushing the bar and adding to them, causing bigger queues and longer waits, everytime there is a new perceived threat and, whenever anyone complains will continually use the same justification of, "Terrrsm!!!!!!" to remove your civil liberties.

In the last year, I have travelled around Europe, into Russia and to the USA. As a leisure traveller, I had more problems getting into/out of the USA than I did even with Russia.
As a leisure traveller, I would not plan to visit the USA again.

Otherwise, kindly retract your hairbrained claim.

voltaire Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Otherwise, kindly retract your hairbrained claim. In the West Bank, Iraq and Afganistan.