Hey,

Looking for advice - not sure where to turn really!

I am 22 and I have been "investigating" the church for quite a while now, going on Sunday's, attending extra classes and chatting to the missionaries. The thing is I don't really think it is necessarily right for me. Sometimes I really agree with everything they say and everyone is so friendly on Sunday and a bunch of different families have invited me over for FHE and dinner and what they say sounds so great but then when I am on my own or trying to read from the BoM and doing my own research a lot of stuff doesn't really add up or can seem really restrictive in your life - like the WoW, tithing or the underwear ( what is that about I tried to ask a member and she just skimmed over it!?!)

I haven't really told many people in my life about investigating the church in case they judge but I guess my main problem is this - although I haven't been baptized yet I kinda feel trapped already in the church, I like the missionaries and a lot of the church members and don't know if I can leave I feel like I would be disappointing them and they have been so good to me, but I am really not sure if it is right for me.

I don't really have anyone I can ask as Mormons aren't really that well known about in ireland (that I am aware of) so can't really ask my friends or family about whether it is right.

Any advice would be super appreciated

Thanks

Well nice until they get their hooks in you.

My only advice is don't allow other people's expectations control your life. It's YOUR life, not theirs. You live with the consequences of your decisions, not them.

Don't compromise yourself to make other people happy.

You already sense that this isn't right for you. Going against that can only lead to unhappiness, frustration, and conflict.

Be strong in yourself, in your judgement, in knowing what is best for yourself. No one knows you like you. :)

People are going to be disappointed. They'll get over it. That's a promise!

You're right about the ridiculous amount of restrictions in Mormonism. Do you really need that much supervision? Or can you be trusted to select appropriate drinks, clothing and underwear? (BTW the church underwear is worn pretty much 24/7 by members who have gone through the endowment ceremony at the temple.)

Give yourself a full year before you even consider being baptised. There's no rush. The church isn't going anywhere. During that time, read everything you can read about the church. Read this message board and the associated short topics at this website. Read the MormonThink website and the Wives of Joseph Smith website. Read the books "In Sacred Loneliness" and "No Man Knows My History." Educate yourself! (...and since you asked, no the church is not true. There is a lot that the missionaries won't tell you, and there's a lot that even they don't know.)

If you really want to join a church, join one of the nice protestant churches. Those churches will demand far less of you and treat you far better.

By the way, all of the attention that you are getting right now from the missionaries and the other church members will evaporate once you're baptised. You'll be given a church job (a "calling") and be pretty much ignored.

http://mormonthink.com/

http://www.wivesofjosephsmith.org/

Thanks summer what you are saying makes sense, I am trying to research as much as possible and I am finding out so many things that are really putting me off it like Joseph smiths teen wife and the lack of archeological finds in America matching up with the BoM.

A couple of the members have been slightly pressuring me to get baptized and I am quickly running out of excuses in their eyes. It is so confusing.

unsure Wrote:
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> A couple of the members have been slightly pressuring me to get baptized and I am quickly running out of excuses in their eyes. It is so confusing.

Doesn't it make you wonder why the Mormon church needs to get you baptised so very quickly? In Catholocism, you take lessons and attend church for about a year before they allow you to get baptised. Why are the Mormons in such a rush?

If this is your first experience dealing with someone you like putting pressure on you, then you will learn something from it. Standing up to pressure is a valuable adult skill. Look the person in the eye and say, "You seem to feel the need to get me baptised, but I'm in no rush. I'm going to take my time about it. I'm sorry if that disappoints you, but that's what I'm going to do."

They can like it, or they can not like it. It doesn't really matter. It's your life and you get to pick.

BTW, you should be aware that the missionaries are given weeks of intense "sales" training at the Missionary Training Center. They are as well trained as any used car salesman. Just because someone wants you to "buy" something doesn't mean that you need to buy it.

"the missionaries are given weeks of intense "sales" training at the Missionary Training Center"

summer is exactly right - and it doesn't end after the MTC - part of the missionaries daily study is how to overcome concerns and work with different types of people - they have a manual on it and everything

i was taught how to 'build relationships of trust' (mormons commonly call this 'BRTing') with people so that i could talk them into doing things

simple things at first like just reading the book of mormon or coming to church but then the missionaries build off of that experience and talk the investigator into baptism

You tell them you're not ready yet. It's not an excuse. It's a valid and truthful answer.

If they have a problem with that, then it should be clear to you that what's best for you is NOT important to them.

Except at the end of the year when tithing settlement rolls around. The bishop will want to know if you have given the church 10% of your money over the past year. He will then ask why not? You cannot progress any further in the religion such as going to the temple, having certain callings, unless you are paid upl

summer Wrote:
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>
> If you really want to join a church, join one of
> the nice protestant churches.

I'd be careful about choosing either a Protestant or Catholic church in Ireland! Might be better just to stay out of the whole mess.

Summer's right, though. No need to rush, and in the end it doesn't matter what these new "friends" think of you...it only matters that you do what's best for yourself.

( thought lifted)

Feelings are DIFFERENT from Facts.

Truth depends on Facts, feelings Don't.

Mormonism survives & grows by developing Feelings... which are Emontions; it's their Bread & Butter.

In YOUR LIFE, it's Best to learn to effectively deal with Both!

pressured, now I just go because I like some of the talks and
activities, pay some tithing and people are nice

Maybe not because of its R rating - and it is very violent and not a little disturbing and yes I read all the books and have already seen all the movies in Swedish with subtitles, but I digress.

There's this scene where the protagonist has gone to spy on someone he believes is a monster and up to no good. The bad guy discovers him spying and invites him in for a glass of wine. The protagonist could run away, he is in the bushes and the bad guy is calling to him from the porch, he could definitely have escaped.

But he goes in and takes the glass. And the guy has him. Later when he is trussed up and ready to be slaughtered by the bad guy (who is just as bad, maybe worse, than the protagonist expected) the bad guy explains that he can always count on his victims' not wanting to be rude or cause a problem to others. That's how he ensares them.

Maybe mormons are not that bad, but you are just sitting in the bushes - I suggest you run away!

Yes, the Mormons and the missionaries are very friendly and nice people. They are telling you that they are your friends, and that they are only trying to help you.

How about trying this little test:

Tell them that you appreciate their friendship, that you like them very much, that you feel they are wonderful people. But as for joining their church, you have decided definitely not to join. You would still like to have them as friends, and you hope that your decision not to join will not affect the friendship.

See what happens.

Real friends will not let lack of agreement on religion affect the friendship. Only false friends do that, friends that want something from you, that are trying to manipulate you.

You might remind them of their Articles of Faith, where number 11 says that they believe in allowing everyone the right to woship as they please.

I predict they will either continue to pressure you, or they will drop you. Please come back and let us know how they reacted.

The claim is that the Mormons are God's ONLY true and living church upon the face of the earth.

If I believed that, I'd be attending faithfully every week. I'd be reading their scriptures daily. I'd be doing sessions at the temple regularly.

However I don't believe that.

If you have a STRONG belief (not just a vague hope) that Mormonism is God's true church then I would advise you to go ahead. But otherwise don't because that's the position THEY put forward.

To Mormons it's not about "fellowshipping" or "feeling good" or "some nice teachings," it's about TRUTH.

If you are convinced it's the diamond truth, go for it. If you don't then do not make the mistake of substituting friendly social behavior for actual personal concern. The Mormons are more proselytizing than the Scientologists. They LOVE the idea of new members and will go to all kinds of lengths to love-bomb a prospective convert.

But once you are in it is a HUGE faux-pas to say "I only joined because of the nice people; I don't really believe that Nephites, Jaradites, or Lamanites exist." And if you argue in favor of that position you risk excommunication.

I was what we call on this board "love bombed" my entire life. When I stopped attending church with my friends, or other events, only one person got angry with me. They are more worried about losing you than you know. They will do anything to stay in your good graces because it's their job to convert you.

When you stop coming to events or church, they'll say they've missed you, and push you to come back. Just find another niche of friends and events to attend and eventually, you'll be OK. They will be OK too.

I've also worked with Mormons all my life and I am friendly with them but also let them know I don't want to attend anything when they ask. They always try. They're always nice. But no. I don't go there.

Good luck.

unsure Wrote:
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> don't know if I can leave I feel like
> I would be disappointing them

Hi Unsure

You may think that you have new friends, plenty of people that care about you etc.

But don't underestimate this weapon: their phoniness!

They just need a new "member", which is why they want to baptize you right away. After you get baptized, their interest will decrease exponentially. If they wanted a REAL conversion, they wouldn't be so impatient. The missionaries have been taught to push baptism (or, more often, re-baptism), so they will keep saying how important baptism is and that you should do it anyway. They don't give a **** about you.

Also, the tenets and the history of the Church are ridiculous to say the least, but this is another story.

It's important that you learn this while you're young - you are not on this earth to make people approve of you.

Do not worry about disappointing people. Do what YOU feel is right. Do not bend over backwards to please others when your brain is telling you otherwise.

Of course everything sounds great from what they tell you - they're salesmen! They're trying to sell you a lifelong commitment to a church where you'll never be good enough, never be doing enough, and will devote all of your time to the church and still feel guilty for not being a good Mormon.

They're not just telling you this now, because you're free to walk away.

Do yourself a favor and go explore other churches before you decide whether to be baptized. Since the Mormons insist on being salesmen, treat them that way and do some comparison shopping. You'll soon find that as you look around, that pleasant exterior they're showing you will become cracked.

As soon as you're baptized, their work is done and they will stop paying attention to you. Baptizing others is ALL they care about.

My background:

1. I am (female) over 60 years old.
2. My family on my mother's side --LDS since the days of Joseph Smith, Jr.

My thoughts:
The beliefs of the LDS Church are illogical. You are asked to "take things on faith". Faith has led millions to the wrong path. Muslums have faith that allows them to blow up themselves and others. So in one sentence, I have summed up the value of faith in making decissions in your life.

It only takes one hole in the hull of a ship to sink it. All you need to find is one falsehood in Mormonism. On this site you will read about hundreds of Mormon "truths" that have been shown to be lies.

You ask for "some advice plz". Here it is. Stop all contact with the missionaries and the members of the Church. Do not do verbal battle with them as they are themselves deceived and will drag you into the deception if you allow it. Do not open your door to them. Do not accept their "love gifts" or offers of friendship as they are trying to manipulate you. You owe them no excuse(s), no apologies, nothing. Put whatever wall between them and you that you can.

I wish an older and wiser through experience woman had told me these things when I was 22.

My heart goes out to you because I was in basically the same situation you're in now 30 plus years ago. I was in my early 20's at the time (I'm now over 50 y.o.), I was single and receiving the missionary discussions. The pressure to get baptised ASAP was enormous, by both the missionaries and the mormon families that were fellowshipping me. Like you, I also felt trapped and didn't want to dissapoint the mormons who were being so kind.

The fact that I felt trapped and didn't want to dissapoint these members eventually taught me that I was lacking in self esteem. I was more concerned about pleasing them than doing what was right for me, ignoring the gut level feelings that were telling me something was wrong.

Remember, getting into something is always easier than getting out, which I can attest to.

For people like you and I the only sure-fire solution is to be strong enough to cut off all contact with the missionaries and other mormons entirely. If you don't, I can almost guarantee you'll soon be baptised a mormon. (If they refuse to stop contacting you please consider contacting your local authorities to enforce their not contacting you)

I know this will hard to do at first, but doing hard things, that won't be popular to others, is part of becoming an adult.
All growth is hard, but it's all part of maturing from a child into an adult. I choose to believe YOU CAN DO IT!

Good Luck.

P.S. Stopping all contact with mormons will give you the additional time to keep studying mormonism, without the pressure to get baptised, from this site, Utah Lighthouse Ministries, etc. This added searching will give you the time you need to make a more intelligent, informed and adult decision at a later date.

Great advice from wise people. Richard's advice about testing the "quality" of your new friends will be a very revealing experiment I predict. The reason is that mormonism is a cult and I would urge you to look here: www.howcultswork.com.

I would guess that even as a new investigator you are able to see the unmistakable pattern described. The Key Points on this web page can suggest many ways to evaluate the proposition of whether mormonism is a cult or not such as:

* Richard's friendship test. Is your relationship valuable on its merits or does it require your participation?

* Ask missionaries and members to suggest books and articles that are critical of the church to provide you a well-rounded introduction. What do they say?

* Ask why the story of Joseph Smith you were told did not include the fact that he had multiple secret wives.

* The Catholic church and other faiths require a long investigation of the church -- a year or more -- along with the sponsorship of an existing member before you are allowed to join. Why do the Mormons think this is unwise?

A good rule for making decisions is: if you have doubts -- don't.

You've been taken in by the BRT method: Building Relations of Trust which is a very effective method the LDS Missionaries often use. The idea is that it's harder to say no to someone you trust and have a relationship with.

My advice: Take a break. Discontinue all association of any kind with the LDS folks and see how you think/feel after being away from them for about a month.
Tell them you will contact them if and when you are ready to continue. Be firm. Stick to your break time.

Take control of your life. You sent the boundaries not anyone else.

Just one observation: it sounds like you have a lot of questions they can't answer and that is bothering you. Do some research. Get well informed. Take as much time as you need.