It hit me last week how much TBM's use the word obedient. It started while I was at my dentist (who is TBM) and he was commenting on how it was obvious that I floss every day. He said that it was good that I was so obedient. I laughed and said, "I DO floss every day, but I'm not obedient" He had no idea how to react to that. He kind of half laughed and said "what is that supposed to mean?"

I had to attend a TBM funeral later in the week and while there there I heard the word used often as well. While I was in the car with my TBM sister, she used the word to describe someone, and was using it as a compliment. I couldn't help myself and told her that obedience was for slaves. Surprisingly she agreed with me.

I think that the mormon mindset that greatly values obedience, considering it a virtue, is one of the biggest arguments to call it a cult.

Why would normal free thinking human think that obedience was a virtue?

Obedience to the dictates of church leaders is the only unchanging doctrine of Mormonism.

Isn't that what is taught in the temple? Obedience is the first law of heaven.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 01/30/2012 10:45AM by caedmon.

Right, so they are basically training people to be slaves, and the slaves sing the virtues of being slaves.

Now that I am far removed from it, it seems so crazy.

As soon as I read your post, I laughed! My sister & her family rushed to my mind.
She uses the word in her disciplinary techniques. Whenever her children misbehave, she shouts "Obedience!" And the children cower, knowing they're busted. (i don't know why she doesn't just say "you're busted!" Or my mother's equally terrifying "What do you think you're doing???" LOL) but all 4 know that they must fall in line immediately.

But IMHO, I think obedience is emphasized in any structure, social or professional, where it's possible, or where one perceives it to be possible, to climb the ranks. In a professional setting, obedience to the rules & regulations of the corporate structure, not necessarily its legal regulations, can help move people up the ranks into better positions, higher pay, etc. Conversely, someone could be doing a lot to advance the company, but isn't obedient to their higher-ups, and so will not advance & are often seen as subversive.

Actually, "WHAT DO YOU THINK YOU'RE DOING!" totally works on my dog. LOL She drops whatever she's stolen -- usually my slipper -- and looks all remorseful. Then I scritch her ears and we're all good again. ;>)

But Christ said that the first law is LOVE. Look it up in the New Testament.

Anyone going the religious route, wouldn't they want to follow what Christ said rather than what the Mormons say?

Glo Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> But Christ said that the first law is LOVE. Look
> it up in the New Testament.
>
> Anyone going the religious route, wouldn't they
> want to follow what Christ said rather than what
> the Mormons say?
===================================================
Not if they're Mormon.

Joe outranks Jesus.

The word I hate the most in the english language.
I cringe every time I hear it.
If it is applied to me I instantly feel angry.
If someone tells me I'm obedient, I want to undo whatever it is that made them think that.
If someone tells me I am disobedient I want to spit on them for judging me.
This is one of the fallouts of being BIC and staying there for most of my adult life.

It makes me cringe hearing that word because it reminds me of having to live two different lives to appear "obedient." In my family, if weren't obedient, you got thrown in a loony bin, so it taught me to mantain a Mormony image for the benefit of my mother and church leaders.

Obedience is not a virtue.

Ironically, Jesus really doesn't talk about obedience in the Bible. He encourages people to free themselves from the old law.

Obedience is the core of most religions. If it's not explicit, it's implicit. You are expected to obey the commandments, to be in total obedience like Christ was to the Father, and on and on and on.

Religions throughout humanity come up with exacting rituals that require strict obedience to please their deity. No deviation is accepted. They are done exactly the same way over and over and over week after week after week, etc.
It's total obedience. No surprise there.

Bla bla bla bla...... mormonism is like all other religions..... bla bla bla bla....... there is nothing unique or different about mormons...... bla bla bla bla.......... your experience is not any different than anyone else's in the world....... bla bla bla bla....... all religions are exactly the same....... bla bla bla bla

SusieQ#1 never has anything new to say.

ingnore the fact that I was making the point that Mormons use the *word* obedient a lot and the fact that this is a MORMON message board.

It's called Apologetics 101.

:-)

^ +1000. Apologetics in sheep's clothing.

Or perhaps a bit of dementia. Or perhaps a bit of both.

LOL zinger!

My greatest hope for my daughter is that she will grow up and be as close to 100% self-determination as possible.

John 15:14 - Christ speaking to his apostles:

Ye are my friends, if ye do whatsoever I command you.

As soon as Jesus wants to personally visit me and "command" me, then I'll consider it. But being obedient to anyone who claims they speak for Jesus is never a good idea.

Bingo.

ronas Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Ye are my friends, if ye do whatsoever I command
> you.

Jesus: "I will only love you if you do what I want."

Helen: "Jesus, I don't want to be your friend."

hahahaha! Nice, I like this reply

I've never been into imaginary friends either

of most other religions. It's important to understand that when examining it the Big Picture. As a convert, I know that very well. It's important to "recovery" in my view, to understand how religions in the world really work.
Read: The Power of Myth by Joseph Campbell. It's a real eye opener.

The problem is that so many have not had any other experience outside the LDS Church so they don't know how similar they are to other religions in many, many ways.

Understanding that we are not alone, we are all very much alike, we all have the same kinds of general struggles is very important, in my view. It'a very comforting to know that we are experiencing much the same as our fellow human beings.

I would say most other religions that branch off from the Judeo-Christian worldview.

None of my neverMo friends who were compelled to attend their families' choice of church as children received the shaming, shunning, or lectures on disobedience and "desire to sin" that Mormons so love to deliver on their own when they decided to no longer bother being a Methodist, a Catholic, a Baptist, a whatever.

The only thing Mormonism is even remotely "similar to" is that other power-hungry obedience-cult, Scientology. And I wouldn't touch a present adherent of that whackjob cult with a 10-foot pole.

I know several Mormons who were completely dis-inherited by their religious Christian families when they joined the Mormon church. In some cases, family members refused to ever speak to them again.

While I agree that Mormonism is more controlling than many other Christian religions they certainly don't hold a monopoly.

the issue here really isn't the similarities - it's the constant use of similarities (and sometimes very tenuous ones) to discount other posters opinions/experiences

Indeed.

+1

Nor does it make this statement true:
"The problem is that so many have not had any other experience outside the LDS Church so they don't know how similar they are to other religions in many, many ways."
Only a superficial person would presume to claim that.

I was never very good at obeying...that probably started me off on my journey to apostasy before I even knew the word existed...

It seems that some people have a temperament, or predisposition, for obedience or and inclination towards conformity than others. As a result it seems to be easier for them to remain Mormon, or whatever religion, and have a positive experience there.

So, God creates hurdles, builds them right into their DNA, that most of his children cannot clear? I refuse to believe that.

We obey the traffic and other laws. We obey the laws of nature. We obeyed our parents when they asked us to behave. What I don't do is obey someone blindly who pretends to have some special assignment from god such as prophet, pastor, church leader, etc. If what they say seems to me proper, good, wise, etc, then I may obey their advice.