Mia posted this to the previous thread about a priesthood leader touching incident that was not well received, and led to an embarrassing angry response from a dude at church.

Similar happened to Mia:

"The sp came up to me in the foyer and put his arm across my shoulders and pulled me towards him. (GAG)

I detest the slimmy sob and he knows it. I turned way to get out of his grasp, and in a voice for all in the foyer to hear, I told him not to EVER touch me again. ick. I gotta go take a shower now."

We had a guy in our ward in the eighties that fancied himself a profit, and was held to be such by many of the butt-kissing wannabee ladder-climbers. He also had a penchant for hugging, big time.

He usually reserved his hugging for the "sisters". Occasionally with a guy, I assume just to make it look like he wasn't a perv for the ladies :)

One day he came from the parking lot into the classroom hallway on his way to chapel, and my DW happened to be going in the door at the other end of the hall. He made a beeline for her, and proceeded to bear hug her to the point of lifting her feet right off the floor! Held it for about 30 seconds too. I was following DW about 30' back, and when I saw that, I diverted into the patio and split. No way I wanted him to hug me like that! Creepy...

DW says that he also hugged her one other time at Ace Hardware, in public!

I remember we had a Utah family in one town ward that actually lived out of town in the hugger's ward. But they drove the long distance into town with their big family and van every week etc., because, I heard, they had had a problem with someone hugging the sister in our ward. It had to have been this guy, the profit. He had been a bishop of this ward too, and later became stake patriarch.

This is in Hawaii, where the aloha spirit and casual in-church hugging are pretty well established, but this guy was just way over the top even here in alohaland. I guess it must be pretty intoxicating to have the magic "mantle"!

from your post>One day he came from the parking lot into the classroom hallway on his way to chapel, and my DW happened to be going in the door at the other end of the hall. He made a beeline for her, and proceeded to bear hug her to the point of lifting her feet right off the floor! Held it for about 30 seconds too. I was following DW about 30' back, and when I saw that, I diverted into the patio and split. No way I wanted him to hug me like that! Creepy...<

You are the husband of this woman that is being publically manhandled and you diverted into the patio and split!

I do not think that I need to comment...you have said enough!

Don't judge me, I'm not you. You don't know what was at stake for us.

My response was reflexive. And I still think it was the best response for that time and place.

We were new in the ward, and didn't know this guy well.This was the first time we had experienced his hugging. He was part Hawaiian, and Hawaiians tend to hug a lot. I was expecting that the hug would be fairly brief, as most are. The result was a surprise for both of us, and a lesson learned.

DW and I know how to deal with our stuff just fine, thanks. Don't need your judgment, judge yourself.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 02/07/2012 05:10PM by hello.

If these guys could touch themselves, they would probably touch others a lot less often.

I had the reverse problem. In the youth program, and later in the YSA, I noticed it was common for girls to show interest in a guy by sitting next to him, then spontaneously scratching his back at some point. I am not talking about couples that were dating, unless they were doing so very quietly. I just remember always feeling left out. Not so much that I was willing to demand that all touching between the sexes stop, the normal TBM method for dealing with jealousy of such a nature, but it really hurt at the time.

I'm not an ugly guy, but I was enough of a geek to not be able to hang with the cool kids, and not enough of a brainiac to hang with the true geeks.

Wait -- let me get this straight. You allowed your DW to be assaulted in full view of god and everybody while you turned tail and ran like a scared puppy? You didn't call the creepy perv out for molesting your wife?

I was reading along, hoping you'd write something like, "So I saw him do this and thought, hey! That's MY wife! And I went up to him and told him if he ever put his hands on my wife again, he'd draw back bloody stumps. And he kept his filthy mitts off her after that."

No, your tale ends with you leaving your poor DW twisting in the wind, with no personal power or authority to tell the guy off--something only a man can get away with in the church.

Why isn't anyone saying DW should have told the guy to eff off? I'm not a big fan of the helpless female paradigm. A bear hugger in a church foyer is something she could handle herself, either diplomatically or not.

I understand the protective reaction, but women would be well served to learn to protect their own boundaries.

I think my DW knows what she wants to do. We have our own ways of dealing with Mos.

Dogzilla, you are not me. I know you are a feminist, and you want to protect women. You also have your own personal resentments toward men who have mistreated you, and other women. I say, good for you!

My DW was not at risk of being raped or molested in this case, and she made her own judgment of what to do. She didn't want to make a scene, as she wanted to be friends with this guy's extended family.

If I had interceded, she told me she would have been very anxious about the results. She is glad I didn't make a scene out of it. I know DW pretty dam well after 50 years. She is very sensitive to public embarrassment, and tries to avoid such. She knows how to take care of herself, and she decided to be passive, and let it go.

I'm her husband, yes--but not her owner, or her manager.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 02/07/2012 05:12PM by hello.

She has the right to handle the situation herself. A few more incidents like this, with you encouraging her to own her own space, and she will be able to and whisper in that hugger's ear, "Take your fucking hands off me or I will scream for help."

Then she can smile and nod like nothing happened. You can be, ahem, forthright in a quiet manner and have your wishes respected. No need for a scene, no need at all. That's why god allows swear words.

Anagrammy

My DH would have done the same. He knows I can handle my business :) I've been known to give a good face push should the need arise. It is funny though when I first moved from the mainland to Hawaii, having to get used to all these huge Tongans and Samoans kissing and hugging on you all the time! Lol!

+1 - my wife would have handled it herself and had in the past. Someone walked up, started sobbing, tried to give her a big hug saying, "I love you so much and miss seeing you at church." My wife says, "who the fuck are you." Last time we ever set foot in a church.

I was assuming the wife was a typical mormon woman passive.

Dude tries to hug me in the hallway, he's walking away with a broken arm or two. ;>)

Hello said his wife chose the passive path and he respected that. While I think it's nice that he respected her wishes, my opinion is that she didn't choose in her own best interests.

We teach people how to treat us. If a person can't teach someone her personal physical boundaries herself, I think it would be nice if her partner stepped up for her, should they both deem it necessary.

I'm backpaddling now because of the additional information posted. Keep in mind my original comments were based only on the OP, which sounded like a man abandoning his wife to assault. The situation is a bit more clear now; I still don't agree with everyone's choices, but I no longer think that hello exactly threw his DW under the bus.

Thanks, dogzilla.

Ya know, if we had been choosing everything in the eighties according to our own best interests, we never would have been in the lds cult in the first place. We lived, we learned. And I still have to deal with the fallout, cuz my precious DW is still tbm, as are 6 of my kids.

I bear a heavy burden for not choosing in our best interest. So in that sense, you are surely right.

I agree, and we avoided him and his fan club after that.

Like the guy that took his family to a town ward. We dealt with it in our way, which worked for us. And I didn't have to spill any blood, go all psycho, or get medieval on his okole, over a hug at church. All of which would have been very disruptive to our large, young family.

In Hawaii, prolly like small town Utah, if you get into a conflict with a large, local extended family, you may as well leave the island.

You did what suited you and your family. Well done.

I do not intend to lighten up on myself unless I deem it the correct course of action, but thanks for your input.

Just so you know, you are one of the ones that I have gone back on and read old posts. If I enjoy someone that is what I do.

But, it does not mean that we have to agree on every topic. Keep on, keeping on, Cheryl.

dear hello,

I judged on the info that you originally gave. All I had to go by...as for asking questions,....Why? (Making a funny here.)

You post, someone responds, you repond...back and forth...dialogue...We get to know each other.

I am "cool" with you also. You seem like a straight up person.

Some of the words that you use are used in a different context than what I am use to. That is good for me. That means that I am experiencing something new...a chance to expand.

So that you will know, I am not a big fella. I am female, 4'11' and w-a-y past my prime. Where I was once 'white and delightsome", now I am just "white, with age spots"!

Maybe fella is a generic term that has no "gender"? (She asks in a questioning tone.) OR it was in response to my "big boy" comment. If so, great!

Nice chatting with you. Looking forward to "exchanging fonts" with you later.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 02/08/2012 02:06PM by rowan.

To all on this thread...my responses are being placed out of order, and that is when they are going through. I know the site is experiencing problems so sorry for the "jumping around" of my messages.

hey rowan, yeah I thot you were a guy, hence the "big boy-big fella" return. :)

But I suppose that, compared to you, I am a big boy, at least physically! :) Like, 6', 190. And at 64, well past my prime too. :)

Exchanging fonts, o gawd...lawlz!

As I came to know this guy and his clique in the stake leadership better over time, I came to know that they were particularly attached to the Manti temple and all its folklore, often making their praises of all things Manti public in church talks. They were hot for the "mysteries". And some of the men in the clique were involved in serial monogamous marriages.

Now thanks to RFM, I have learned that Manti is a center for polygs and polyg sympathizers. I can't be sure of course, but I accept the possibility that this local clique was infected with the popular Mo idea of multiple wives, in order to qualify for exaltation.

So his behavior might have been a kind of trolling for new plural wifery prospects. I found out later that this guy encouraged other priesthood leaders to devalue me, even prophesying in priesthood chambers that I would become an enemy of the church someday. Hey, I guess he really was a profit, eh!

Maybe he has hopes of sealing to DW some fine day...

He's dead now. Best of luck to him.

You don't want to be judged then don't put you story up for anyone to see. Don't like my judgement...tough!

In your first "installment" you did not elaborate on the circumstances like you did in your follow-up.

My opinion was based on what you told in the beginning.

By the way, I do judge myself quite often and sometimes too harshly.

When you come on here, you open yourself up to all sorts of comments...better get a thicker skin or be more careful how you represent yourself, big boy!

Then if you extend the same consideration to others we'll all feel better and recover faster.

Hey big fella, I represent just fine. Skin thick. But I will defend, thick skin and all. Tellin it like it is, no problem, I'm cool with you rowan. Don't judge when you don't have full info, ask questions maybe? Get more info, before you let fly?

We had a old guy with dementia who loved to hug the ladies. It was so embarrassing for his wife. When she had to put him in a home, everyone at church heaved a sigh of relief.

One of the little feminine things I learned from wearing "high heels" is that one heel perfectly placed on a man's foot/shoe between his toes, will put an end to almost anything unwanted -- accompanied with an innocent smile and an apology. "Oh my, did I step on your foot. I'm so sorry." He won't bother you again!

I also found the power of opening a well placed drawer . . . while at work !!

Also, calling the brethren on their unwanted touching works. Brother Carson, you're not looking for my garment lines are you ....while you pull away! You're not doing a "Garment Feel Up" are you? That will put an end to any male rubbing your shoulders again!

Another one that works: In a very quiet firm voice -- I need to tell you to stop back, NOW...I am very claustrophobic and I'm about to start screaming and flailing about...!

I really, really object to people in my personal space, so I have found many ways to keep them OUT and make sure they don't do it again!


Nice fingernails work well to get out of the double handed hand shake also. Just dig in ladies. They LET GO in a hurry!!



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 02/08/2012 08:47PM by SusieQ#1.

And it looks so damn interesting.

Hope the tech problems are fixed soon!

;o)