John Dehlin is reporting on Mormon Matters that Elder Marlin Jensen of the Seventy met with disaffected member, including gay members and families of gay members who were hurt by the church's involvement in Prop 8, and after listening carefully to the people (including taking notes) Elder Jensen noted that he was a "third tier" leader in the church and offered an apology "to the full extent of my capacity" (according to a note from Carol Lynn Pearson who said she was at the meeting).

Here's the link:
http://mormonmatters.org/2010/09/25/elder-marlin-jensen-apologizes-for-proposition-8/

He was only speaking as a man. A third tier man. When the Big 15 apologize, then you will have a story/

He better be careful, or he might get called on the carpet by some of the big 15.

If Packer had his health he would punch him in the nose.

As a FIRST TIER human being, I'm not giving much credibility to a "THIRD TIER" GA.

In fact, I'm downright OFFENDED by what they did as a church. Serves 'em right to have such negative PR.

Whoa.

Wonder if that is a trial balloon for how they will handle their problems over this fiasco.

The comments on the link are interesting. Here’s one from ‘Kiley’:

“One can... apologize and say that he is sorry for how everyone is feeling and what they are going through and not be sorry for the church’s stance on homosexuality."

So are Jensen’s seemingly caring comments a heartfelt step in the right direction? or merely phrased so that the members don’t catch that privately, he still agrees with harsh church doctrine on the issue?

Jensen “promised to take what he learned ‘back to the Brethren.’” Oh, really? And just what did Jensen “learn”—and what are the Brethren going to “learn”--that they don't already know good and well?

The world tide may be turning in finally recognizing equal rights for gays; but as with Blacks, the LDS church will make no real changes in their stance toward gays unless or until it threatens to hit their pocketbook.

If it is true, and it if is affirmed by the higher tiers (lol), I'll go back to church.

The two things the church needs to do to get me back are:
1. Admit that they are wrong sometimes (capable of being wrong).
2. Admit that obedience is less important than self-determination.

Then, I'll baptize my kids and laugh all the way to church and back every week...I'll be bishop, stake president and mission president in the future...

LD$ Inc. is still up to its old games (no surprise!). They get 'third tier' GA Jensen to metaphorically wring his hands and say "We're sorry" for Prop. 8, but of course, the 'one, true' corporation of Jesus Christ - run by the Big 15 - continues to not step up to the plate, look Latter-day Saints in the eyes, and say to the membership: "We were wrong about concealing the truth about the extent of church involvement relative to Prop. 8."

If the Prop. 8 doc. film hadn't come out (it got a good amount of press, and made the Mormon Church look like the deceitful organization it is) and plenty of members hadn't left the Morg, there wouldn't have been so much as a peep of apology slip between Jensen's lips, make no mistake.

In the final analysis, the Big 15 - and other GA's - are a bunch of cowards. They've obfuscated, 'spun', concealed, side-stepped, and otherwise not come clean about not only the fraud of Mormonism, but SO MANY aspects of LD$ Inc. throughout their lives (they're 'true' company men) that potentially acting courageously and doing the right thing doesn't dawn on them if such action would be detrimental to the church, particularly financially. Hence, no apology from the Big 15 in relation to Prop. 8. "Get Marlin to say it! He's not one of us! And have him remind members that he can't speak for the church, not like we can! He speaketh as a man - and a 'third tier' one at that! He..he!"

From Joseph Smith's fables about gold plates, 'seer' stones and angelic visitations to polygamy to Mormon racism and disempowering patriarchy to the Mark Hofmann crisis to deeply disturbing (but 'eternal') aspects of temple worship being exposed and nixed to the $4-plus-billion City Creek financial anvil around the church's neck to the Prop. 8 PR crisis, when has the Mormon Church ever been 'spiritually enlightened' enough to avoid getting caught in crises of its own making? Nope!

What is this to tier thing. In construction we always said shit runs downhill.

The Q12 and FP will never admit to doing anything wrong. After all, they're "prophets, seers, and revelators". Nor will they openly admit that any of their predecessors did anything wrong. While the LDS church did pay for a monument at the Mountain Meadows, GBH was very clear that this was not an admission of any wrongdoing on the part of the LDS church.

Mormons play a cute little shell game when it comes to statements. If it's a statement they like, then it's the Church that said it. If it's something they don't like it, then it was some leader speaking as a man. They will say absolutely anything, and we've seen this again and again. Who cares what they say or what one Mormon leader says? $22-28 million spreading hate says a lot more than one questionable apology.

"I don’t know if you’ll feel the same stunned awe, amazement, and gratitude that I felt on reading this post, but I consider it to be evidence of phenomenal moral courage on Elder Jensen’s part." Please. If Marlin Jensen had phenomenal moral courage, he wouldn't be part of such a dishonorable organization.

I imagine the Mormon leaders really are sorry about Prop 8. They're sorry about the massive backlash that happened in Salt Lake City. They're sorry for the damage it caused to their image. They're sorry - really, really sorry. So sorry, they'll probably be more careful next time how they funnel money into political campaigns.

I'm guessing this apology was meant in the same way many apologies out here have been: "I'm sorry Prop 8 hurt you...but it wasn't my choice, it was what god wanted. I wish this wasn't the way it had to be, but it is." I haven't heard of leaders or members apologizing for the policy, only apologizing for the effects of the policy. That is almost more upsetting, that they know what they are doing but claim to have no control over their actions.

I'm shocked that some people aren't happy about this!

Sure, it's not like the prophet has just said he's going to allow gay temple marriages to happen, but it's SOMETHING.

I reckon he planned what he was going to say very well, so he wouldn't get into so much trouble. People who think he won't get into trouble for this just don't know what the apostles are like.

...they would file a "friend of the court" brief to overturn Prop 8.

One of the church leaders saying sorry is like a cheating spouse saying sorry and then continuing to cheat.

I only have to say this...it is a little too late for any apology for prop 8 and the damage it has done to countless couples and families.

The big 15 reminds me of the Cancer Man from the X-files. Elder Jensen is just another patsy taking the fall for the real crooks. It is disgusting!

F**k TSCC! They can stick their lame ass apology and their BoM up their collective ass!

So a "third tier" GA meets with some "disaffected Mormons" and gives an "unofficial" apology to mollify their feelings.

It's not issued as a press statement. It's not published in the Ensign, or the Church News. It's not made before representatives of the media.

If he wanted to show "moral courage" he would have said it before TV cameras in Salt Lake City, rather than limiting it to damage control with a carefully chosen group of people.

I'm sure He's a wonderful man and great husband and father but this is in no way an example of "moral courage." In fact this reeks of the opposite: say in private what you're too chicken to say in public where it might actually do some real good.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 09/26/2010 09:54PM by baura.

It appears as though the blog and comments were deleted by Dehlin. Does anyone have a copy of the page?

I found a copy of the original blog post here:

http://dl.dropbox.com/u/118766/mormonmatters.html

Hmmm, let's see. What are the steps of repentance? ...

Oh, and don't forget about restitution!