I am too chicken to quit, faithful wife and kids would freak. There must be a way to get kicked-out of the morg and look like the victim, at least in the eyes of my family, poor Joe. Any ideas?

rather than a man with integrity who makes a thoughtful decision?

I think you might be selling them a little short. Are you sure they will all freak? Perhaps there are some who would be relieved to find out that it is acceptable to show courage, to analyze life, and to make your own choices.

Be a role model, you can do it.

Please, just resign. Even though it doesn't matter that the cult isn't real & has no authority, the word 'excommunicated' carries real stigma.

I think it would freak out your faithful wife and kids more if you were excommunicated since they still believe in the church and they believe that you won't ever be able to be together for ever.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 02/14/2012 03:48PM by liberalbutteffer.

I second the comments above.

Getting ex'd is the worst possible outcome for you. Better would be stay on their books if you are too chicken to resign. Besides, they don't leave excommunicated people alone unless you make it *VERY* clear that you have no intention of coming back. Otherwise they assume you are "repenting".

I am a coward on this issue, but I do take advice seriously and I thank you. I will forget the excommunication route. All of you make sense and are more experienced than I am.

Over the last few months, I have been slowly telling my wife about my concerns with the church, so I think I will let this run it's course and give her time to accept my disbeliefs. I am sure truth is as hard on her as it was and is still on me. I think she is coming around to realizing our marriage needs to stand on its own separate from the church. So all hope is not lost for either of us.

I don't think it's possible to get excommunicated anymore for being honest. Maybe 20 years ago, but the current generation of leadership is more likely to disfellowship or just not grant a temple recommend.

If you consistently corrected people on errors in church history in church meetings I think the result would probably only be disfellowshipping. You would have some private talks with church leaders and they would ask you to not comment anymore.

But if you continued, I don't know, maybe they would excommunicate you in order to get rid of your polluting influence.

And if you were always very polite, non-confrontational, and well referenced maybe you would come off as the victim of a overly dominating patriarchy to the congregation. There would also still probably be many who would only see you as the bad apple.

This sounds like it would take a lot more courage, effort, and time than to assertively make your point of view known and your desire to live more honest with your conscience.

This is the only way I can think of and I think it would be just as shocking to your family and ward.

You didn't ask for an alternative, but this is one that came to my mind:

Having never been through this experience myself I can only imagine that there must be some way to make the news that you are not a literal believer in Mormonism "good news" to your wife and kids.

Somehow they need to feel rewarded and benefiting from your change in belief. They need to see it as something that makes them and you more secure, because of course as it stands right now your change in belief would be interpreted as a dangerous downward spiral for you and the safety of the family.

Somehow you need to directly replace your role as a "worthy priesthood holder" as simply a honorable, respectable, and dependable individual. Any change in your behavior from the standard LDS expectations need to be replaced with family and community projects that benefit your family and connect you to positive networks outside of the local LDS ward and stake.

Still going to church would probably be required for awhile to show your family that you are not going to be a radical from here on out. I'm not a fortune teller, but it makes sense to me on a psychological level that a "freak out" reaction can be calmed and lessened if your family equates your change in belief with a happier and more involved husband and dad.

I just remember that when my own Dad would skip church and work in his shop on Sunday I freaked out as a kid, because I thought he was being extremely selfish and throwing away the spiritual role that I thought he was obligated to perform. I stood in his way one Sunday and told him to stop breaking the Sabbath. I can't believe I thought like that! But I saw him as stressed out and unhappy so I reasoned he was on a slippery slope to ruin. If he had been upbeat, thriving, and more interested in me I would have had little opposition or worry about him.



There's no way out of a rigid in-group, except through the door you make yourself. Open it slowly. React calmly and empathetically to your family's "freak out." From their point of view you are blasting a hole in something perfect. If you do it gently and they see you as happier on the outside, maybe they will let you lead them through the door you made. Maybe not, but they will respect and appreciate you a lot more if they see this as something that has made their lives better.

Tell the Bishop you do not believe while drinking a beer. but seriously do get exed on purpose just quit

I know exactly how you feel. I would welcome excommunication. Think about it--when you resign, you are basically telling your TBM family that you reject the thing that is most important to them. When you are exed, you can pretend like you were temporarily led astray. Yeah, it's chicken, but it's a whole lot easier than what the fallout of resignation would be.

Oh, and I'm pretty sure I've posted enough here to get myself exed--now it's just a matter of leaking my rantings to the bish...

Just joking, of course (about outing myself at this point). Also, the rest of you make good points about the stigma and inherent problems excommunication would bring. Still, Joe, I know how you feel...



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 02/14/2012 04:55PM by nowI'mfound.

I know exactly where you are coming from. My wife knows of my disbelief but will not look at why. She has asked me to go to church to "keep up appearances" but this is leading to me performing blessings, ordaining, and doing other things that I just do not believe in anymore, although I think it is hilarious how "spiritual and helpful" all my blessing have been. I have told her how little elohim would care for my activity, but appearance is before everything.

Just be as honest as you can and stay consistant. Speak up in class and be controversial. Do not be confrontational, but do not back down. Always have a smile and love for everyone. It is incredibly hard, but hopefully at the end of the day she sees the church for what it is.

I personally am trying to convert the whole ward to seed planet atheism or SPA.

After all, it was one young man who started this whole cockamamie thing to begin with.

the easiest way i think would be to talk trash against joseph smith and friends in the elders quorum. be consistent. 2-3 interviews with the bishop, still keep doing it.

that's it.

you'll get excommunicated for blasphemy against the anointed ones. whatever.

If I recall correctly there is a list of punishments in the CHI that require of mandatory excommunication. Just tell the bish you like to have sex with livestock. Gaurenteed excommunication. Of course the news will go viral and you'll be known as the pork porker.

could be excommunicated as a TBM, it would have been much more difficult for me than it would have been for him. Up until then, I thought that excommunication was an act of love HA HA HA HA HA.

I had so many people just want him excommunicated. When I didn't pursue it, my BIL actually said to me when my kids turned 18 that they could now have their dad excommunicated.

If your wife is anything like I was--a TBM female is about all it takes--you being excommunicated would break her heart. It would have mine. Even after my husband had left, was really cruel to me for a while, I couldn't deal with it. Both he and I did resign last January (as I can now be excommunicated, too).

as others have pointed out - if your family are TBM enough for you to even consider this they are not going to view you as the victim of the church...

but just for fun - you could call a meeting with the bishop and open up D&C 132 and explain to him how you have fasted and prayed on this chapter and god told you you need to marry the bishop's teenage daughter...

when he calls you to repentance or calls you crazy or whatever he says just point to your scriptures and say, "it's all here black and white clear as crystal"

that should do it...

All I had to do was live with my fiancee for a couple of weeks. X

I do know someone who got x'd because he told the bishop he didn't believe JS was a prophet. He gave all of the evidence why. They called in someone from SLC to talk to him about it, then they x'd him



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 02/14/2012 06:23PM by Mia.

Oh lord no just quit. i hear excommunication is long and drawn out. Interviews, urging you to repent. Leave on your own terms. Joe- are you the one from Richmond Va Stake? I'm wondering if we know or atleast know of each other. I've been out for 4 years so I don't know if you would know me. Scotchtown Ward.