Since christmas I've seen a ton of posts bitchin' about having cookies or other edible items left on doorsteps etc.
I don't see the problem AT ALL, I don't.
Ok, I can understand that if you've specifically stated that you want to be left alone by TSCC, then maybe you might be a little pissed (a little)
Why is it so bad if some YM/YW want to leave cookies? Like I don't think it should be greeted with such hostility at all. It's harmless and I believe it's actually quite thoughtful.
I've seen other dumb posts like 'OMG IT'S SO UNHYGENIC AND GROSS?!?!'
Really?!? You're hardly going to keel over and die of botulism over a few cookies made by a few kids with dirty hands.

Personally I just don't see a problem.

People have a right to feel and believe as they wish. If you don't have a problem, relax and eat your porch cookies. You have no business putting others on the hot seat for their opinions about this practice.

Well my intention wasn't to put anyone on the hot seat. I was simply just saying, like many others do here.

You were just simply saying... what, exactly?

You know as well as I do that the only point of your post was to shame and invalidate the people who do not like this practice. If you wanted the morg to leave your family alone, you'd be thrilled from them to bombard your CHILDREN, in an attempt to get them to join the love bomb brigade, or just to bribe them with treats to return? If that works for you, fine, but don't scorn the people for whom this practice is intrusive and frustrating. If you have no problem with it, fine. Eat your porch cookies and be quiet, or talk to the love bombers and thank them for your treats.

How about those missionaries you think are so rude, would you soften to them if they came to your house with a plate of cookies to bribe you to invite them inside?

Love bomb cookies are never just a gift of kindness, it's an attempt at a foot in the door. The objectionable thing is not the cookies themselves, but their intended purpose. Could you really enjoy a plate of cookies meant as a lure?



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 02/17/2012 07:47AM by wittyname.

IMHO anything unwanted or unasked for left on my property by others is at best littering.

I would not trust as edible what is left on my doorstep, sorry but I would not. It is just litter that needs to be thrown away, almost as bad as having a neighbor's dog poop on my lawn. In some ways worse.

Why others think we should just accept as benign the unwelcome littering of our homes by others is beyond me.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 02/17/2012 07:43AM by MJ.

Flowers are lovely and women just getting them, except from the guy who won't leave them alone. They dated a few times or even just said Hi on the elevator and now he thinks she wants to be his wife, if he just tries hard enough maybe she will give in.

+ 1

A brilliant parallel, JoD!

Gavin de Becker who wrote "The Gift of Fear" and who provides threat assessment systems and protective security for government and entertainment bigwigs says, "When someone disregards your 'no,' they are trying to manipulate you."

Most people don't react well to being manipulated. It's more than a "little" irritating. There are those who make excuses and enable the manipulative, as evidenced by some posts on this thread.

What I'm trying to understand, Elaine Dalton, is how you see "a problem" with people stating that they dislike this manipulative practice, but you don't see "a problem" with the manipulative practice itself.

Well I just think some Ex mormons flatter themselves and have a HUGE chip on their shoulder. They think that TSCC is just obsessed with them, when it's them obsessed with the church. I am most definitely NOT referring to any one individual, I'm just saying in general.

That's funny, and not even remotely logical. The ex mormon didn't go trolling for cookies, they attempted to be left alone in peace. How is expressing frustration over mormons coming over unannounced attempting to reactivate them/their children being obsessed with the church? THe ex mormon is the passive one in the equation, and all signs point to the church being obsessed with the ex mormons.

Complaining about having unwelcome litter left on one's property hardly calls for the claim that the person has a "HUGE chip on their shoulder" or that they think TSCC is obsessed with them.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 02/17/2012 08:28AM by MJ.

I tend to agree. I don't see it as a big deal unless you have asked for no contact. If you don't want them, throw them away. It isn't as if you have to go to church because they sent you cookies and answering the door only takes a second.People have a right to be bothered by whatever they like, but, like you, I don't get it .

IF you don't want the dog poop just throw it away.

OMG, even if someone left dog poop on my stoop, I wouldn't get as upset as you and some posters get over cookies.You get your opinion and Elaine and I get ours.There is no RFM rule that we need to get our blood pressure up over cookies.

Wrong place



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 02/17/2012 09:32AM by bona dea.

And if you read this thread without your "hate mj" glasses on, you would see that most of my disagreement with the OP is about attitude and labeling others as having a "chip on their shoulders" and other feeling suppressing tactics

So, I will defiantly let my dog poop on your lawn, and I will leave what ever I want on your property, regardless of if you want it or not.

Right or wrong, she'll agree with any poster who disagrees with MJ.

Matter of principle don't-cha-know!

Timothy



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 02/17/2012 09:59AM by Timothy.

No, my intention wasn't to shame or invalidate anyone. There are enough people on this forum that do that already.
I just think, why do people have to look at gifts or anything else left by the church as some sort of bribe?
I've been left things by tscc before too, and i've had that same mindset.
I just don't think it's ALWAYS the case. No matter how many bad things the church and members do, I do think some people genuinely care and want to be nice.

Yeah, right.

Honestly, Elaine Dalton, are you in the habit of leaving cookies on the porches of folks you don't know?

Even as a token gesture of kindness, I would, at the very least, deliver the goods in person and explain the purpose of my visit.

And it may not "always" be the case, but when it is the case 99.9% of the time, the few true acts of kindness shrink to insignificance.

I have a real problem with cookies or any other food stuff left anonymously on my porch in that I don't know what's in said "act of kindness". I might hold an allergic reaction to one or more ingredients which would be a handy bit of information to someone who really cares about me. I might be diabetic. The items in question might contain some sort of poison or might not have been prepared properly for human consumption. The list goes on and clearly demonstrates that such acts are far more thoughtless than anyone in his or her right mind can even remotely consider thoughtful.

Also keep in mind that everything humans do has an ulterior motive. In this case, I guarantee that the vast majority of practitioners are eyeing CK extra points and couldn’t care less about anyone else’s eternal well-being.

Timothy

Yep, I'm not into the anonymous deliveries either. I'm guessing there must have been some cookie-making activity Wednesday night and that's why I got unlabeled cookies on my doorstep Thursday--but I have NO idea who those came from, or what they meant by them. And it was impossible to tell what was in them. I already have tummy problems. I'm not eating mystery cookies. On the other hand, all the labeled or personally delivered love bombs since Christmas have met with politeness and sincere thank yous. I know many of them are just trying to be nice. They don't see it as a manipulative tactic. However, when they basically tell you that the cookies are because they want you to come back--that's when those of us who've asked to be left alone start getting annoyed.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 02/17/2012 10:09AM by nowI'mfound.

I'm with you Elaine, I personally don't see an issue with cookies, in fact I kind of wish someone would love-bomb me with cookies but it has never happened. =) I've been on the delivery end of cookies but we would never think of just leaving them at someone's doorstep. The two or three times I've delivered cookies in my over 20 years in the church has been with YW and RS at Christmas, when we went carol singing. However, in places of overwhelming mormon influence this may get annyoing and it may happen so often that the people who receive them are just tired of that practice, I can see that as well, especially if they have asked to be left alone. I also find it odd that someone would just leave them at the door instead of having an actual face to face contact when delivering the cookies.

D

You would not be annoyed?

Seriously, the assumption that everyone WANTS cookies to begin with, much less that people would want them left on their door step is, well, arrogant.

Why would you assume that because YOU would want something done to you, that everyone else would want it done to them?

Sorry, but I've lost respect for you because you didn't read or care about those who've already patiently responded to this question.

MJ, relax.
I definitely don't have a chip on my shoulder. Very far from it. I would never allow the church to give me one.

You are ranting "just think some Ex mormons flatter themselves and have a HUGE chip on their shoulder. " because someone says they don't like cookies left on their doorstep, and you expect me to believe you don't have a chip on your shoulder?

Your overreaction is evident.

I'm just saying, why does everything TSCC do have to be a negative?!
Why can't people see the good in things ever?
I'm really bad at articulating myself most of the time so it's hard to explain what I mean, I just think, why would you go down to the church's level by making it such an issue, returning them or throwing them in the bin.
If someone wants to waste an hour of their time baking you and delivering you cookies then that's up to them. I think it's quite funny.

I'm sorry you've lost respect for me Cheryl.

Like I said I wasn't trying to discredit anyone.

Yes, many people here have had very negative experiences with TSCC. To try to claim that they should not express their negative feelings in a RECOVERY GROUP is, IMHO ABUSIVE. People come here because it is supposed to be a safe place to explore and express their anger, their hurt and their frustrations over the intrusions by TSCC and its members into their lives.

As the guidelines express "This is not a debate board for Mormons to defend the faith."

And how can you claim you are not trying to discredit people when you are claiming they have huge chips on their shoulders?



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 02/17/2012 08:51AM by MJ.

If all that you say in these posts is true, then why did you call the posts expressing frustration over love-bomb cookies "dumb"?

As far as I read in this thread, it looks like you are the one who is lobbing insults.

Personally, I think leaving cookies on someone's porch is dumb, but that's because I live in Florida and any food item left on my porch will be devoured by fire ants by the time I get home from work. There is no "no bug" season here. All that leaving cookies on my doorstep will accomplish is attracting bugs and critters to my house and possibly leaving a melty, crumby mess on my doorstep, which I will have to clean up before bringing my dog outside for her walk. And, as I said in another thread, the cookies are a lie. The intent behind them is nefarious; therefore, it's a passive-aggressive action to take. There's no silver lining here. There's no positive spin. Some insecure passive-aggressive person drops a love bomb on your porch, there's really no turning that into an "Aw, how lovely..."

Unless of course, you're you.

Elaine Dalton Wrote:

> I've seen other dumb posts like 'OMG IT'S SO
> UNHYGENIC AND GROSS?!?!'
> Really?!? You're hardly going to keel over and die
> of botulism over a few cookies made by a few kids
> with dirty hands.
>

http://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/preview/mmwrhtml/mm5224a2.htm

"Foodborne transmission occurs when an HAV-infected food handler contaminates food during preparation..." One may not die of botulism, but one certainly get serious illnesses when food is prepared in an unclean environment by unwashed hands.

Who's defending the faith?

That would be you Elaine. It starts with the assumption that there is good in TSCC. Some here disagree with that assumption.

"I'm just saying, why does everything TSCC do have to be a negative?! ...Why can't people see the good in things ever?"

Please consider where you are, Elaine Dalton.

The title of this site is "Recovery From Mormonism" which gives no indication, whatsoever, that it is, in any way, intended to be cult friendly.

What "good" do you find in an organization that aggressively promotes racism, sexism and homophobia while teaching its male adherents that they have magical powers and its female adherents that they're nothing more than mindless baby factories?

Cookies?

You don't have to be a mormon to make or appreciate cookies.

Timothy



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 02/17/2012 09:07AM by Timothy.

Timothy I think the good can be found in some of the people. Not the organisation. Call me naive.

Yeah, I am sure you could have fond some good in some 1942 German Nazis as well.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 02/17/2012 09:11AM by MJ.

And as I mentioned, please consider where you are.

"Recovery From Mormonism" not "Recovery From Mormons" although I do believe it plays a huge part in the process.

You wrote:

"I'm just saying, why does everything TSCC do have to be a negative?! ... Why can't people see the good in things ever?"

That statement appears to be directed at the organizational level. Unless, of course, you see people as mere "things."

Perhaps you should consider saying what you mean and meaning what you say.

"Timothy I think the good can be found in some of the people. Not the organisation. Call me naive."

Again, I already did. Can you please make up my mind?

Timothy



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 02/17/2012 09:18AM by Timothy.

I don't understand the Mormons' frustration over inactives.

Well people are allowed to disagree with anything I say and likewise.
I know from my experience that there is some good. I also know there is some bad. I'm not defending mormonism in the slightest and I'm not trying to minimise anyones bad experience, including being love bombed.
I'm simply saying, do people have to be so unappreciative and pessimistic?

And then you claim you are not defending TSCC and that you are not trying to minimize other people's feelings.

And you expect us to believe that nonsense?



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 02/17/2012 09:00AM by MJ.

Well firstly MJ,
I don't expect anyone to believe anything. I don't care, without sounding arrogant.

Secondly, I don't think I said that people who object to love bombing have a chip on their shoulder and my apologies if it came across that way.

And Can't you remember what you said from thread to thread? In the context of a thread about leaving cookies on door steps you said (note the quote marks) "Well I just think some Ex mormons flatter themselves and have a HUGE chip on their shoulder"

Clearly you did say such a thing.

I did say that but it wasn't in connection with love bombing.
I just think some ex mormons in general have chips on their shoulders.
Please get off your soap box now.

Even by your own admission in the beginning of this thread this is about the Mormon practice in particular, and the Mormon practice of leaving cookies is described as lovebombing.

So, how can you claim to remove that comment for the context of the discussion in which it was made?

When done out of kindness, people who leave baked goods generally leave a card or a note signed by the person who left the items so the recipient knows who they came from.

BUT - if done in kindness, they also generally don't leave them wrapped unsafely on a doorstep in the elements. They generally ring the doorbell, and if the person's not home - they come back later so the *perishable* items are delivered *safely* for people to eat. (or do common sense things and call first to see if they could stop by for a moment).

If someone has specifically stated they want to be left alone by the church, and these cookies arrive - it's the equivalent of the obnoxious kids who ring doorbells and run. Is it harmless? Perhaps. But it's annoying and UNKIND when someone specically has asked interaction to stop.

Like I said, I'm bad at articulating myself. Maybe I did go off on a tangent, but I just meant that generally there are many ex mormons that have such a chip on their shoulder that it wouldn't allow them to just accept the cookies even if they wanted to.
That's probably a bad explanation.

There may be very good reason for the chip being there.

Oh and I love your backpedaling. Care to move the goal posts again?



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 02/17/2012 09:24AM by MJ.

Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 02/17/2012 09:25AM by MJ.

I don't accept such "acts of kindness' for the many reasons I cited which have nothing to do with having a chip, chocolate or otherwise, on my shoulder concerning tscc.

Any food items left on my porch by an anonymous donor go straight to the trash-can. Don't know where that stuff or the maker have been.

Again, this is "RECOVERY FROM MORMONISM" which is a place where ex-mormons are allowed and encouraged to express their frustrations with the cult.

Which part of that do you not get?

Timothy



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 02/17/2012 09:34AM by Timothy.

I'm in no way backpedaling. I was waiting for you to say that.
Your posts are so aggressive. Maybe YOU'RE the one with the chip on their shoulder.

Then you start the ad hominens.

Yes, I am sure you expected me to make a VALID POINT.

No, the person here that is aggressive is the person that started a thread that puts down the valid concerns of others, including valid health concerns, that labels people as having "chips on their shoulders" without regard to if there is legitimate reason for such a chip being in place, etc. etc.

But I am sure that you are well practiced at accusing people that disagree with you of all sorts of ill manored behavior when they don't back down,.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 02/17/2012 09:31AM by MJ.

So is it you "don't understand" or you "won't understand?"

More than few valid reasons have been expressed and yet you reject them all.

I don't see that you've offered anything of substance.

I don't think you have a chip on your shoulder, I just think you're a few chips short of a chocolate chip cookie.

Timothy



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 02/17/2012 09:35AM by Timothy.

Haha ok guys

Since you seem to have no problem with people leaving unwanted things on your door step.

possibly somebody else lives in Maybarry with Opi, Andy & Aunt Bee.

I feel much safer in my rental in a more established neighborhood than the house I left where two midlife old Gs posture at each other like modern Aztek warriors daily and their wives, the same age, same stage, same occupation, same financial situation, same age children- carefully smile and never make eye contact as their men strew lawn ornaments meant to detract drive by shooters yet stand for their colors.
Carefully park as many shiny gang color cars on the street as will fit on their side when they have their ancient friends, creaky knees, white in the side burn snow topped crew cut cropped hair hop out on the the sidewalk. One side of the street Red one side of the street blue ancients mamas in wheelchairs, I saw one with a cane the other day. Teen agers phew their kids are GREAT achievers in school, they're all in college. Its the parents I'm talking about on my street that are bothering me.

Cookies? You're talking about cookies left anaonymously?
Now tamales, that's anothers story if someone loved me enough to carry home made tamales on Christmas Eve over hot from the steamer- now that's what I'm talking about.

I like my new neighbors. Its quieter here. Quainter. Less LA immigratnts up the state meeting the local folk, if you know what I mean.

cookies huh? I don't know. Maybe you just Live somewhere else. Where? I could try it.

cookies? what if they are trying to poison each other not just their dogs? And someone of their friends mistaked me for the other o G? cookies? you think that's safe- what if someone who hated their friends' neighbor in fight over the street for the Mexican gang left it by my door by mistake?

Middle aged women going walking flying their husband's colors carefully in frumpy jogging suits. Dutifully going with friends in shiny gang colored vans to their own form of relief society- praying at a gang funeral with their young adult daughter (you know those men, you gotta pray them in - to heaven - they'll never make it in themself, they're too well they'er men so you pray them in) pull up in front of each house piled with women dressed like strange cheerleaders just layers and layers of red or blue matching the van or suburban they're piling in with other women.
LOL
They want the street. They're fighting over bragging rights and whose friends get to hang the shoes over the telephone line and the source of the skunk weed that drifts in the night fog on a winter night.

cookies huh? I want to eat things from people I care about, and I want to know where they're coming from in that neighborhood. WHERE do you live? I like my new street, things are more, civil here- people who are in gangs all claim the same color they're mostly wealthy from down south, & a white guy a business owner that rented out his house because he lives he retired in Mexico. They, they wonder about me, I don't quite fit in this neighborhood either, say when my lease is up they might rent me another property closer to my work place

cookies? off the street?

It's creepy in an childish sort of way.

Why don't they have the maturity to ring the doorbell and speak to you? Oh yeah, it's b/c they really don't care for you as an individual. They're just completing a task.

posted about stalkers. I've had 3 stalkers in my life.

Doing things like leaving cookies is passive-aggressive behavior. It isn't meant to just "be nice"--

It is like the neighbor (while I was still active mormon) who I had an argument with over her son throwing rocks at my kids while he was playing with them. When she lied to me, I banned him from my house. Her husband came and confronted me in my own backyard. Then I banned the whole family. She started leaving things like roses on my porch and telling me parts of the Ensign to read about forgiveness.

It is the "message" they are sending--not the cookies. It is no different than the bishop e-mailing me and bearing his testimony and me ending up having a PTSD reaction.

Ever had a stalker? It is very unsettling. It was one of the reasons my ex moved back to my house is because of a stalker I had.

This isn't just about leaving cookies. It is a much bigger issue than that.

I'd still have a bad reaction.

By the way, Elaine, my daughter is over the top TBM and there are very wonderful things about her, but she also HATES how mormons act and leaves Utah on a regular basis to get away from them. She says they have no boundaries.

"She started leaving things like roses on my porch and telling me parts of the Ensign to read about forgiveness."

Indeed, it is incumbant upon the victim to forgive the a**-hole for being an a**-hole even though the a**-hole refuses to apologize or otherwise attempt to correct the malfunction.

Says so in the Ensign.

??????????????

Timothy

If some guy who had left you beaten senseless started leaving you cookies on the doorstep, how would you feel? If a scam artist who had tricked you out of your life savings, left cookies on your doorstep, how would you feel?

There are people on this sight who have been beaten spiritually and emotionally senseless by that CULT, the Mormon Church. They are in the process of healing and moving on.

Asking those same people to see the good in the cookie patrol is insulting no matter how you actually meant it. It falls into the same category as several other posters who absolutely LOVE the mormons.

This is RFM. Finding a glimmer of good somewhere in a CULT is not on the agenda for most of us I suspect.

Check it out:

http://youtu.be/S7MuwPlOiNQ

'Nuff said.

Timothy



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 02/17/2012 10:26AM by Timothy.

THank you Thank you Thank you Timothy for that. I am laughing so hard I am crying. You are so right. "Nuff said.