that he needed to release me from all of my callings. When he asked why, I told him. I like the guy, and respect him, and I do not mind talking about it.

The high points, more or less in order(his questions followed by my answers he is not in quotes, I am):

Why?

"After prayerful consideration and study I have determined the church is not true."

So can I ask what you do believe?

"Sure"

Do you believe in JC and the atonement?

"Nope".

Do you believe in god?

"I have a hope that there is something out there."

Do you pray?

"I meditate"

I am looking for a good place to start.

"Start what? I am done. I did this as a courtesy to my wife and because I like you, there is nothing to start."

You know, I want you to consider that sometimes people choose a path because it is easier, I would much rather be on the lake than here.

"Then you should be on the lake, at least you would be with your family instead of cooped up in an office dealing with peoples crazy problems for free. I can tell you with absolute certainty that the easiest path for me is to believe, but I cannot put the bag back on my head."

We went back and forth for about 40 minutes like this.

We talked about my kids and what I wanted for them, I told him that was why I was doing this. In order to live what how I tell them I want them to live ( with honesty and respect ) I have to be honest.

He asked about the good things the church teaches i.e. service, honesty, etc.

I said that was great but the church also teaches guilt, passive aggressive behavior and submission to authority. On top of that church culture makes young men and women suppress natural sexual behavior and lie about it, and it teaches them to confuse horniness with "the spirit".

I also told him if when my wife did not need the church anymore I couldn't wait to get that 10-15 hrs a week back.

To his credit, he was more concerned with the fact that I no longer believe in JC than he was that i no longer believe in the church. In fact, every time I brought up what was wrong with the church he said don't worry about that, let's talk about belief in god and JC.

We left on good terms and we will see how it goes in the coming weeks.

It feels good to know I do not have to pretend anymore.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 02/26/2012 01:54PM by icanseethelight.

Congratulations!

Loved this:

"Then you should be on the lake, at least you would be with your family instead of cooped up in an office dealing with peoples crazy problems for free. I can tell you with absolute certainty that the easiest path for me is to believe, but I cannot put the bag back on my head."

Congrats!

Almost everybody in the Morg would rather be doing something else, if they were honest, than going to church. Just take a look at their faces during sacrament meeting. Underneath their brainwashing is a human being, just like us.

although the consequences can be unexpected & harsh for a while, Honesty always feels Good!

We'll see, the leadership of the ward here is pretty laid back, so I have hope.

Pretty awesome conversation. Well done!

Interesting that he kept veering away from problems with the institutional church and tried to focus on God and Jesus. I wonder if he's getting that direction at all from Stake, Regional, or First Presidency leadership, e.g., in Bishops' training or worldwide leadership training, etc., or if that's his own take on things, knowing that the church IS not defendable but that he can keep you under control through the warm fuzzy love of Jesus and Heavenly Father.

I'm thinking, then let's just go to a Christian church without all the LDS baggage and deceptive nonsense.

I honestly do not think he was trying to control me, he seemed genuinely concerned about the fact that I lost faith in god, he wasn't as concerned with church. I think it is more likely he agrees with me at some level, but has found it easier to stay in, "just in case". Plus, while I do not know about his heritage, his wife is from a huge multi generational TBM family.

Congrats! I came out as an unbeliever to my bishop almost a year ago. He's wanted to have followup discussions since, but I've refused. He's a great guy--seriously one of the nicest people I've ever met--and it felt good to know that he knew the truth about me. I also think that because of that conversation, he wasn't as shocked when we all stopped going to church a couple of months ago.

I'm surprised that you accepted being questioned by a mormon bishop.
Now he has ammunition to use against you.

Use against me how?

I thought of it as having a conversation with a friend, not an inquisition. When he tried to turn me into a project, I was friendly, but shut him down.

He questioned YOU ! How come you did not turn the tables and question HIM ?

As for him being your friend, time will tell.

Yes, he did question me, I also expressed concern and sorrow for his loss of family time because of a church that preaches about family constantly.

Planting seeds Dave, planting seeds. If I have to go every Sunday to make my wife happy, I will, willingly, but I am going to do my dead level best to pull every gunny sack off of every head I can, including the bishop.

When you say it with a smile a with love in your heart you can say just about anything. And while I did not outright question his belief, I did mention that everyone above his boss(the SP) is getting paid, and he is one not on his boat on the weekends;)

icanseethelight,
Did you show the Adams Road band/grace video to your wife?
I'm a nevermo (married to a TBM) so I might have a different
perspective, but I can understand how difficult it can be with a TBM spouse.
I left the video on my wife's computer(yeah I know "passive aggressive") to find and watch.
It was the first "anti mormon" thing she watched that she couldn't
argue about.
I came to the conclusion that the people that believe (in the tscc) it s a emotional belief (duh) not a factual belief.
I showed my wife youtube DNA, BOA etc (factual)videos to no avail.
That what made this one (I believe) so powerful. It speaks to her emotional level.
I also like now when we watch general conference and they something like "Heavenly Father knows where to send his lamb."or some nonsense
I can say "yeah Florida, good job" and my wife will actually laugh and say "your rotten".



In case people don't know what video I'm talking about
(please don't call me a Christian shill)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Dl0c5nl6u48

I have not. I have no interest in replacing her belief in one church for a belief in another. She is finding her path, and while has a lot of hurt right now, I hope she is seeing that I am not "bound with Satan's flaxen rope" as was referenced in today's SM.

I am a better father, lover, husband, and friend. I am more honest, caring, and understanding.

How can that not pay off in the long run?

And also, she does not think that the BoA should be scripture, and agrees that JS is a liar, and so are other prophets. It is a pure emotion and fear of loss that keep her in.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 02/26/2012 03:29PM by icanseethelight.

Woah, not my intention with the video "replacing her belief in one church for a belief in another".
The point to me and having my wife watch it is (I think) the profound questions it raises like:
-How is possible to do follow all the principles of tscc and lose
your testimony.
-do the people seem to now be controlled by Satan?
-why did "Heavenly Father" send them to Florida,
its supposed to be inspired where you are sent right?
a few quick questions off the top of my head.

wow- you are strong! I am not sure I'd have had such presence of mind. Good for you!

I'm glad you were satisfied with the visit. What a relief to longer feel you must put on a show for him. It's hard to live a duel life. Spies get paid for it but your reward is frustration and grief.

"To his credit, he was more concerned with the fact that I no longer believe in JC than he was that i no longer believe in the church. In fact, every time I brought up what was wrong with the church he said don't worry about that, let's talk about belief in god and JC."

That reminds me of a conversation I had with a member of the high council a few years after I left the LDS Church. I was asking him about the planet Kolob and a god living in flesh and blood there. His response was that they're told not to worry about that. Instead they're supposed to mostly worry about family, tithing, and sunday school. I looked at him, thinking, what religion tells their own members not to "worry about" the core beliefs of their own religion?



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 02/29/2012 01:04PM by happyexmormon.

So they want to bury all the troublesome doctrine, but thay have no problem with keeping tithing front and center. Mor(e)mon(ey)
all the way.

"what religion tells their own members not to "worry about" the core beliefs of their own religion?"

Answer: a religion that is desperately trying to survive in spite of itself. By "not worrying" about their core beliefs, they're trying to reinvent themselves. Only time will tell how successfully they can do that. Unfortunately for them they can no longer bury all the weird stuff -- thanks to the internet.

Loved much about this post, especially the part about the Bishop mentioning the good the church teaches (honesty, etc.), and the responses to this.
IMO, formal churches have done much good in the world, even though some bad comes from them as well.
My immediate thought on the good in the LDS church, is that all those things can be practiced outside the church, and without the handicapping bad stuff (also mentioned in the posts).
I appreciate people who recommend kindness when talking to good LDS people (as this Bishop), as they have a wrenching thinking process to go through, even as many of us have experienced.
This discussion of good and bad in the church, and does the good outweigh the bad, is a big issue with me. There is so much bad in the world (including in churches in general, not just the LDS church). And, the bad is constantly being glamorized and taught on TV, in movies, at schools, etc.). Even more worrisome (to me), is that many people and youth today seem unconnected to sources which example the good and honorable.
Also, it seems hard to find groups of good people to associate with (tried different churches, but not really much in common). Society offers groups holding together by a similar interest (science, politics, etc.), but these associations often do not extend beyond the club's purposes.
I'm not recommending holding fast to the LDS church because of these problems, but I understand why some do (especially when family and jobs play a big role in the equation).
Currently I am struggling with just occasionally going to Sac.mtg. (for reasons many have expressed). One fear is that others might take comfort that "all is well in Zion" because people like me keep attending. Still, my often absences have caused many to wonder why (which may be good).
I notice that I am on the receiving end of "love bombing", but do not resent this. I am friends with these people, most of whom are just doing their best (IMO) to let me know they love, and care, about me.
One reason I walk this tightrope, is I am on the church's "watch" list, and for sure, I want leaving to be on my terms, not on a church court's terms.

At that point you have resigned and they can do nothing more to you. Maybe type one up ahead of time and keep it with you just in case?