What will the Church do when Wards and Stakes shrink due to apostasy? Will they sell the buildings for bowling alleys and day care businesses or destroy them so that their won't be a glaring skeleton of their failure to thrive? Or, will the church subsidize property managers to maintain the chapels for appearances? What happened to the buildings in Chile where 35 Stakes were closed due to mass exodus from the church over last few years? Seems like a quandary.

...selling off chapels due to changing demographics. It's not as uncommon as you think. Buyers of chapels have done it all, from maintaining the structure so one can still recognize it as a former LDS chapel, to demolishing it completely and leaving no trace whatsoever - just like what happens to all other types of buildings that get sold.

It has been converted into a house.

Not a very good conversion, it still looks like an small old church building.

But I try not to point that out to him.

I would never want to do that myself, but I'm curious to see how someone would make it their home. Is it one of the standard designs from the 1970s and later?

...then that will be the most telling sign that the sh*t has REALLY hit the fan! The temple is the biggest symbol the Church has to keep up appearances.

Which is why they would never sell them.


...its not like they need the money.

I wouldn't mind buying one. Nice big kitchen. Turn the RS room, usually attached to the kitchen into a big dining room. Foyers would make big airy living rooms. Lots of bedrooms (class rooms) turn some into bathroom and closet space for the bedrooms. A indoor gym that can be used as a ballroom. Turn the chapel into a home theater for entertaining. Use the different hallways as guest wings. The primary room would make a great game room (bar/ pool/ darts) kind of a man cave.Turn the parking lot into an outdoor basketball court, garden, etc.
If I could get it real cheap and have enough to remodel it could be alot of fun.

In California, if the building is empty for more than a year, the church has to start paying property tax on it since it is not being used for tax-exempt purposes. There is a building in Southern California that is up for sale. It is old, dedicated by David O McKay. It has stained glass, and is really quite a nice building. Shame it is being sold so the members can go to a cookie cutter building across town.

Is that the one in San Diego? They closed it originally because it was infested with asbestos.

My BILs company builds churches. Mostly Mormon churches, sometimes temples, but they also do a lot of protestant churches. Many of these later, look like Mormon churches with crosses and stain glass, and you can find them scattered all over the southeast.

Where is that chapel in San Diego?

I am NeverMo but grew up in Point Loma. The chapel in Point Loma, near the insection of Chatsworth and Nimitz, was torn down and rebuilt during the 1990s. I don't know if asbestos played a role.

The original chapel had no parking lot, and was set in a neighborhood of duplex, single story rental apartments without any off-street parking (i.e. fairly high density of cars on the street even without the LDS members). The new chapel used an excavation, plus the fact that the lot was sloped, to create an underground parking lot beneath the new chapel.

As far as I know, the old Point Loma chapel served all of western San Diego, including Pacific Beach and La Jolla, until the current Pacific Beach Stake Center was built in the early 1960s.

I think there was another facility in/near Mission Valley and another one near SD State University. Do you know where the chapel that was torn down or sold was located? As documented above, the Point Loma chapel is still in use, but was demolished and rebuilt completely.

...near Nimitz and Chatsworth. I stay down there often and enter Pt. Loma often from off Nimitz and Chatsworth. Damn, I would hate to spend a Sunday there when the surf is up, on a sunny Sunday and the bars and restaurants are packed. Stupid Mormons.

It is half a block off (north of) Nimitz, and is on Tennyson Street, a block west of Chatsworth. The ATT Building is across the street, and on the other side of ATT is the MUCH larger (great and spacious) Point Loma Community Presbyterian Church (aka The Red Brick Church). http://www.pointlomachurch.org/

Here is a Google map:

http://maps.google.com/maps?q=nimitz+and+chatsworth,+san+diego&hl=en&ll=32.737732,-117.230312&spn=0.005163,0.006968&sll=37.0625,-95.677068&sspn=55.586984,114.169922&hnear=Nimitz+Blvd+%26+Chatsworth+Blvd,+San+Diego,+California+92107&t=h&z=18

The chapel is the roughly triangular building with a green roof, bounded by Centraloma and Tennyson (official address is on Tennyson). The parking lot backs up to Chatsworth, but in the old days there were apartments on the Chatsworth side, that TSCC must have purchased and torn down to make the parking lot. If you zoom in, on the Centraloma side you'll see a driveway, this leads to the underground parking. Because the lot is sloped, they were able to create underground parking on the downhill (Chatworth) side of the building.

You can see the red roofs of the Presbyterian Church two blocks north of the chapel. There are a LOT more Presbyterians in Point Loma than Mormons... ;) The old LDS chapel had a brick facade that sort of echoed the Presbyterian architecture, in fact as a kid I used to think it was an annex of the Red Brick Church.

The site, when built originally, was three blocks from Dana Junior High School (then grades 7-9, hence included Seminary students) and only four blocks from Point Loma High School (grades 10-12), which must have made life easier for LDS early morning Cemetery carpool parents. However, the schools had a very low LDS population. There was only one LDS family in my entire elementary school.

Back before the early 1960s, when the Pacific Beach facility did not exist, the location on Nimitz was convenient. The only ways back then to reach Pacific Beach and La Jolla were either via the Mission Beach Bridge (torn down 1951; used to connect South Mission to Ocean Beach) and Ingraham Street, which ran across a series of bridges to Crown Point and PB. There was no West Mission Bay Drive in those days and they were still dredging and building Mission Bay. So being a block off Nimitz made life easy for PB and La Jolla members in those pre-freeway days.

Its "inspired" location between the junior and senior highs still makes sense. Dana has been changed to a grade 5-6 middle school, though, and Correia (formerly Collier) Middle takes all of the 7-8th graders. Point Loma HS is now a 9-12 school, so all of the Seminary kids are at the high school and it's only four blocks from the school. California has a released time education law, but very few religions can take advantage of it because usually there are insufficient numbers of students (Mormon or otherwise) of any faith living close enough to avail themselves of off-campus religious education. It wouldn't work in Point Loma because of the time needed to walk from school to campus; in addition the school has a closed campus policy (you cannot leave school until your school day has ended). Also, the LDS population is so low that they'd never even half-fill a seminary classroom during a given class hour.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 03/03/2012 01:59PM by PtLoma.

The chapel with the asbestos was still standing as of 1998 when I was serving a mission in the area. I was on a split with a High Councilor who pointed it out as we drove past on the interstate, and mentioned the asbestos. I don't remember the area, only that it was a very old church, could be seen from the interstate, and was in a developed area.

In Seattle, there was one close to DTown, on "lower (south) Queen Anne".

it became a restaurant; word around is that LDS, Inc. tried to keep them from getting a liquor license b/c of the sales covenants, but FAILED.

I'd buy an old ward building if I could, for sure.

In the old part of Sacramento (in Oak Park) there is a church that was long ago Mormon, but is now Christian. I can't remember the denomination.

What about the temples? We've seen on other posts that temples like Los Angeles and Toronto temples are pretty much deserted. With all the temples that are being built and with young people leaving the church, what will become of these temples? They cannot be sold as they are, I'm sure the church will need to make modifications to any temple for sale before they can start showing it to the public.

BTW, have any temples been closed? I haven't heard of any but maybe someone will know better.

Idk, but I'd but a temple. Imagine how many let's on ice you can keep in the 12 oxen baptismal font!
And the celestial room would be great to keep a wet bar and a poker table in!
The locker rooms would make great walk-in humidors....the possibilities are endless!

Stupid auto-correct! >:(

Is the current site of the Nauvoo Temple on the exact same footprint as the original Nauvoo Temple? The original was abandoned in the 1840s, TSCC tried to sell it to Catholics but were unsuccessful, it burned to the ground and the site was abandoned for 150 years, just a vacant lot. That would be the best example of a temple that was torn down. If the new temple in fact occupies the same footprint as the old one, then it would count as a rebuild that took 150 years to complete.

The Samoa Temple burned in an accidental (careless use of renovation equipment) fire, but was rebuilt on the same footprint.

The Kirtland Temple now belongs to the RLDS/Community of Christ and is used mainly as a museum/tourist attraction. I believe rarely they hold special commemorative services there.

There are also examples of places where a temple was announced but never built. Examples include Hartford (announced, then un-announced and replaced by Boston) and Harrison, New York. TSCC owned a large plot of land off I-287 in Westchester County, but the town of Harrison placed a LOT of restrictions: reduced square footage, reduced night lighting, reduced spire number and height, etc. in an era (late 1990s/early 2000s) when the LDS was not used to wheeling and dealing. They later did so in order to get permission from Newport Beach to build a temple there (color changed; no night lighting after 10 pm; no pageants or festivals; height of spire reduced from 129 to 89 feet above street level).

The Town of Harrison played hard ball and I don't think TSCC leaders were willing to compromise (this was before the Newport Beach cave-in). Also, there was a major flaw in the site: new sewer and water supply lines would have had to be run underneath an adjacent county road, which would have been a majorly expensive public works project.

At the time the Manhattan Temple was announced (conversion of an existing, multi-use church building near Lincoln Center), nothing was said about Harrison and it just slowly faded away. While TSCC seems to prefer temple locations near freeways in affluent areas (Newport Beach Temple; San Diego Temple, across the freeway from the affluent La Jolla section of town). But a Manhattan Temple made sense because of the availability of public transit, plus the conversion of an existing building was way cheaper than building in Harrison.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 03/03/2012 02:13PM by PtLoma.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nauvoo_Temple#Nauvoo_Illinois_Temple

Apparently TSCC acquired the land over a thirty year period, and in fact owned it outright for over thirty years before rebuilding. Reportedly, all or most of the $$$ was donated by John Huntsman Sr.

truthsleuth Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
What
> happened to the buildings in Chile where 35 Stakes
> were closed due to mass exodus from the church
> over last few years? Seems like a quandary.

I'm at least as interested in what was behind the Chilean exodus. Linkage to some reasonably objective and in-depth journalism?

I know there was a evangelical church in our area that became a synagogue, but in that case, sadly, it was because the evangelicals were building a larger church across the road, and couldn't be bothered to expand the more modest existing building on the other site.

A lot of churches (mostly Catholic) got converted to condos and shopping spaces when I lived in Boston in the late Eighties. I'm sure they can probably sell them to someone eventually if they weren't a part of a local construction/real estate bubble.

The Salvation Army owns the church building I went to in the 60s and 70s and a little bit of the 80s in Idaho Falls. It is still a beautiful building and now it has a cross on the steeple.

Turning old LDS building into a home: The baptismal font would make a great sunken, romantic bathtub for two....

I read an article that talked about LDS membership and it showed Chile as the only country that has reversed in growth but in a big way. California was the only State where member numbers actually declined (prop 8). Growth has waned significantly to 1%/yr recently. It just got me thinking since I believe the membership will be collapsing globally at a pretty rapid rate in the next few years. I look forward to seeing the churches become relics.

They can do what the Baptists with lots of politically connected members in the congregation did when they had to get rid of their old church to pay for their new one in our town. The politically connected Baptists got their toadys on the city council to buy the old church for several times what it was worth for use as a "downtown social service center". Of course it turns out the old church is so dilapidated that it would cost more to repair than the building is worth. When the city tried to sell it, they were only offered a fraction of what they paid the Baptists, which, of course, is its true market price. So, the dilapidated church sits downtown as a decomposing monument to the stupidity of our city council - which was recalled by the voters last year leaving us with no city government at all until this year's elections in May. Frankly, no city government is better than the one we had.

What happened to the San Francisco ward buildings?

There was a huge exodus there in the 70's and 80's.

Anagrammy

Refurbish the place and call it Joe's Bar and Grill. Karaoke on Fridays.

Maybe Jim Bob and Michelle's kids will take them over and turn them into family homes. A bedroom for every child. A parking spot for every family member. They will probably have to convert some space into more bathrooms though.

I couldn't imagine having all these empty ward buildings where I live. There is one at least every couple of blocks. Maybe they could make some of them into coffee houses. We definitely need more of those around here.

The clerk offices could be walk in closets.

The foyers with their big windows could have some large parlor type plants growing up to the ceiling. Think of all the spider plants going wild with their little plants trailing down, or a wandering Jew plant would really have a place to spread out, that would be neat.

Of course we'd have to replace the burlap wainscoting. The gross carpet would have to be re done.

Now where could a cozy fireplace go?? The chapel? The gym? No, you'd want the stage for your wide screen movie experience!!!!
I wonder if the chairs and tables would come with that??? Nah, a lot of bean bag chairs would be more fun!

The bathrooms, since they haven't been professionally cleaned for years would have to be completely overhauled.

One could have a blast with different wall papers and borders.

I have lots of my Mother's paintings I'd hang on the hall walls.

One could even find room for a large stuffed animal!!! A world class bear no one wants anymore? Maybe a Moose?

No elephant feet step stools though! Gross!

I Want to turn it into a great big brothel. Bring me your Ho's!

Remember that LD$ is a business. THey will downsize like any other business. I very much doubt that they will maintain those buildings for show. Hell, they don't maintain the buildings now........the members do!
They will do whatever nets them the most $$. Take any neighborhood which has a ward. The ward is often one of the best pieces of property in that neighborhood. This seem to run across the board, rich or poor neighborhoods. They will sell the properties for as high a price as they can get. Then make up some story about that particular one had a soil problem, or mold or something. They will have an individual problem for each building (based on what COULD happen to a building around it) then use that for the reason it is closed. They will not admit to losing members until they absolutely have to. That is the one area where they are not as much as a business.
They have already out-sourced since so many members are not in the USA. THink about it......they will lie like they always do.

Great take enoughenoch19! I think you are right on the money, but I wanted to hear it others. There have been some funny responses to this question. Thanks for chiming in. I just discovered this site yesterday, though I have been an escapee for a few years now--ever evolving. You're right that the Church will never admit declining numbers (no church will). We can only get that data accidentally from Church Historians lecturing at Utah State who have lapses in Judgment.

The Bishop's office would be perfect for converting into a bathroom. There already is a lot of sh*t going through there already.

I only have experience with the old, individualistic ward and stake buildings being sold. One that I used to go to in Midvale in the 1970s now has a golden dome on it, like maybe it's gone Orthodox, or something. There's a similar (and beautiful) one over in the Sugar House area. In Longview, WA, there is one near the hospital that could not be enlarged when the ward grew too large, so they sold it to the Catholics and it became part of a convent. This led to a rift because there were a lot of old-timers who had saved their pennies to pay for the building, only to see it sold a short time later to the godless Catholics.

have been mentioned. There are a few old mormon buildings around Northern Utah that were sold for homes. The two that come to mind are in Mantua and somewhere by Honeyville or Deweyville. The one in Honeyville/Deweyville is build with rocks--not brick.

Then there is the one in Logan that was a baptist church for a while. When they cut off the steeple and put in a bell tower, the mormons went nuts.

There is also one here in Hyrum. I'm not so sure what it is used for now--it is close to Hyrum Dam. It was a reception center for a while.

There was also a newer building on main street here in Hyrum and it was torn down a few years back. Wasn't even that old.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 03/03/2012 10:50AM by cl2.

Right down the street from the Jordan River Temple is an old ward house that someone bought and lives in. There have been people living in it for as long as I can remember. They haven't updated or changed the outside of the building a whole lot, so it's easy to tell what it used to be. I can't help but wonder how they have remodeled the inside.

Back in the early '90's (I believe), Churchco sold the old Marmalade Hill ward (complete with onion dome, no less) to the Salt Lake Acting Company (SLAC) which turned it into a theater. Each summer SLAC presents a satirical review called "Saturday's Voyeur" which pokes fun at the local culture, including, of course, Churchco.

Thereafter, an old ward house situated a block from my house was abandoned in a consolidation, and the property was ostensibly put on the market. Part of the "public" offering was that the building would have to be demolished (presumably so the SLAC experience could not be repeated). Long story short, the property was subdivided into three residential lots, the building was demolished, and the former bishop and his two side-boys got sweetheart deals on the lots. Three mini McMansions now occupy the site.

More-power-to-SLAC-ly yrs,

S

I want to turn one into a night club. The holy thong.