I've heard it go both ways, so if someone has the new and current 2010 CHI, I'd really appreciate some direct quotes out of the book.

I plan on staying on the rolls for the sake of my family. They're not ready for that change yet.

Honestly it won't matter what the Handbook says. Mormons follow rules at their own discretion so it is impossible to know what someone will or will not do. I've seen it go both ways.

...that joining a different church was NOT grounds for excommunication. Then, in the next edition, it specifically said that it was. I guess God changed his mind. Elohim is such an indecisive guy.

exmollymo Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I've heard it go both ways, so if someone has the
> new and current 2010 CHI, I'd really appreciate
> some direct quotes out of the book.

Especially if you can get your picture in the paper and bring that to the attention of the local authorities there's a good chance this would help to seal the deal.

At least that was what finally got them to do the deed for my mother, after a prolonged effort on her part to have her name removed as a sympathy effort for her brother.

It was only after she had a picture in the paper as a leader in her local Bahá’í community that they finally, in a bassackward way, "respected" her wishes. At least that's how I understood it. I was no longer living there when this all went down, just went through a lot of phone calls in the few years that led up to it.

There is the matter of local discretion, so your mileage may vary, but if you have someone alert them to the possible tax implications (as I understand it, not doing so threatens the church's tax-exempt status in the eyes of the IRS) that may cause them to take action. Of course maybe the tax laws have changed in the intervening years, but I doubt that.



Edited 3 time(s). Last edit at 03/06/2012 08:37AM by ambivalentsince1850s.

It can happen, but there is no guarantee that it will. The church cannot dump some people fast enough. Others it holds onto long after they have repeatedly tried to break free. Just live your life to the best of your ability, and let it do whatever it decides to. If you get kicked out, so be it. If nothing happens and hometeachers still come by every now and then to give you Richard G. Scott's invitation, so be it.

What about becoming a mason?

I've known Masonic temple workers and other prominent church members. Masons are not considered a religion, but a social club. It came in handy for the temple workers though, they had lots of practice with all the secret handshakes, and much of the resiting of the oaths.

This seems to be the latest word. Apparently you are no longer booted out even for joining another church, which was the case for many years. Perhaps they took too much heat for it. Perhaps it occurred to them that members of other churches did not get booted out when they joined the Mormon church:


Apostasy

As used here, apostasy refers to members who:
1. Repeatedly act in clear, open, and deliberate public opposition to the Church or its leaders.
Page 95
2. Persist in teaching as Church doctrine information that is not Church doctrine after they have been corrected by
their bishops or higher authority
3. Continue to follow the teachings of apostate sects (such as those that advocate plural marriage) after being
corrected by their bishop or higher authority.
In such cases, excommunication may be necessary if repentance is not evident after counseling and
encouragement.
Priesthood leaders must take disciplinary action against apostates to protect Church members. The Savior taught the
Nephites that they should continue to minister to a transgressor, but "if he repent not he shall not be numbered among my
people, that he may not destroy my people" (3 Nephi 18:31; see also Mosiah 26:36).
Total inactivity in the Church or attending or holding membership in another church does not constitute apostasy.



This is from the 2008 Handbook found at:

http://www.ldsfreedom.org/node/17

I love #3...like I'd actually let a bishop "correct" anything I chose to do of my own free will.....hilarious...

Please see CHI-2010, p57, in the Church Disciple and Name Removal section. Under reasons for being exed, please see the "Apostacy" section, item #4."Formally join another church and advocate its teachings."

I would suppose that leaves some leaway, as a local leader would need to define "advocate its teachings". To me, joining another church indicates advocating its teachings be definition.

This is clearly a change from the last version.

A damn hard church to follow. Thanks.

Thanks everyone, specifically Crathes.

One of the problems in Mormonsism is that there is no one to appeal to when local leaders go crazy.

The First Presidency does not want to be bothered with anything , so that leaves you up a creek.

About the only thing you can do is RESIGN.

I know you'd get kicked out of BYU, which is ironic considering how they advocate admitting students who are members of those churches.

"Apostasy
"As used here, apostasy refers to members who:....
"...
"4. Formally join another church and advocate its teachings.
"Priesthood leaders must take disciplinary action against apostates to protect Church members....
"Total inactivity in the Church or attending another church does not constitute apostasy. However, if a member formally joins another church and advocates its teachings, excommunication or name removal may be necessary if formal membership in the other church is not ended after counseling and encouragement."

Thread with the above quote:

http://exmormon.org/phorum/read.php?2,190197

Wait, so if I join another church, and believe in it fully, then the Morg feels it is their responsibility to counsel me and encourage me to leave it?

However, when the same thing happens the other direction, with people counseling new Mormons to get out, the church will say it is none of their business.

So, if I sent a copy of my "Membership agreement" with the Center for Spiritual Living (technically a church, but not one that preaches hellfire and damnation just one that advocates spiritual growth through the Law of Attraction and similar laws...) and my current Bishop knows my wife and I are attending it...I would be excommunicated from the Morg? That may be even easier than the resignation letter!

Easier for them or for you?

You could attempt this and get some glee out of it. It may not save any of your time, but it would certainly waste a lot more of theirs.

In order to be excommunicated they have to hold a court. I know for Melchizedek priesthood holders that requires the whole high council plus the stake presidency, plus probably a clerk or 2. So somewhere in the range of 17 people have to spend their time to excommunicate you. If you aren't a melchizedek priesthood holder the bishop & counselors hold a court at the ward level - still taking 5 or so people's time. Then you could always appeal it to the stake level forcing more time at the stake.

So yeah, you could provide written evidence that you need to be excommunicated and then they would need to go through the silly process of wasting all of their time to hold the court.

I would guess that most courts would find you not guilty just for joining another church. Church members tell leaders all the time that they aren't Mormons anymore and they have joined another church and the local leaders don't do anything about it but keep them on the roles and go bug them once in a while. So even though the way it is written joining another church could possibly get you ex'd in practice you'd have to be quite vocal and cause quite a disturbance for anything to happen.

Of course, you could state that you are a member of this site and then give them copies of posts you have made here that directly and publicly decry the church and you could probably get excommunicated for it. It could be a mischevious way to waste a bunch of people's time processing it in any case.

BWAHAHAHAHAHAHHAAHAHA... I think it would be fun to waste 17 peoples time for all the crap I went through in it... :D Here's some "Evil Speaking of the Lord's Annointed" Tommy was supposedly one of my Grandfathers best friends for many years...and yet when my grandfather passed away a few years ago, all the time Tommy could spend was 10 minutes, all of which was making sure that the living knew how important the MORG was...and of course the MORG celebrity Pictures... He didn't even go to the casket to show respect to the departed... and then he left two minutes before I got there. I was starting to get out then, and I was glad I didn't have to put up with him...but I did have to deal with my family telling me how much I missed in those 10 minutes... BFD..Here is a man who shows how he treats his "friends" in life by the way he treated them in death.

Oh and for more fun, my Family and multiple (LDS) friends know the screen name I am using belongs to me...I hope they enjoy this if they are Trolling to see what people have to say...