I heard that all the time about the mentally retarded!(I'm sorry, I don't even know what phrase we're supposed to use for that. I don't mean anything offensive.) The explanation was that they were SO valiant that God couldn't risk them not going to the Celestial kingdom. So he made them unaccountable in this life so that they could get the blessings of having a body without the risk. There are more problems with all of this logic that I can even start to list. But I heard it multiple times from different people, all of whom were steeped in church history/lore. So now you know: God couldn't risk them, just the rest of us.
@rosemary - I don't recall that specifically, but I can't challenge it either. It does have a ring of truth to it, and I can imagine people saying it. Do you recall anyone giving any doctrinal back up, either from speeches at GC from particular GAs, or from the D&C or other scripture? Just wondering about specific statements that might have made it into print, as opposed to stuff that might be categorized as folklore or oral tradition?
Wasn't there something about that in the movie Saturday's Warrior too? Yes, I was always taught that those people with handicaps were God's favorites basically.
I heard they were so valiant they did not need to be tested but came here to earth to teach us to be loving, patient and other Christlike qualities. They sacrificed their chance at a more normal life to help us. However ...
That wasn't a universal doctrine. I had an LDS roommate once who was completely convinced that mentally handicapped people were a result of their parents sin of some sort. That they were a punishment to the parents for something the parents had done. She looked horrified and disgusted when I told her how wrong she was and how I'd always been taught they were given as a blessing to the best families. It was a fun argument with someone who had a real prejudice going. She was mad at me for a while and completely convinced I'd lost my mind and maybe my soul.
I'd heard this about mentally handicapped. When I was in the church, I was a little jealous of retarded guys because of that. How come they get a free pass.
Since leaving the church, I've wondered why more people aren't bothered by this teaching. God is pushing people through the system by making them unaccountable for their actions and guaranteeing them a spot in the Celestial Kingdom? Didn't, like, LUCIFER try something like that way back when? Didn't God kind of hate that idea?
I was tought both and with lerning dissabilities myself I resembled those ideas a bit to much for my likeing. I still remember I got baptised because I wanted to be normal and was told I would be if I got dunked.I even had one twit say my eyes would be fine.
I heard it. Same rule was also said to apply to children who died before the age of eight. They already proved themselves, so God only sent them down here to get a body.
I think it was a myth created with the intention of comforting the families of people with children who never progress beyond the mental age of eight, either because they are mentally defective, or because they die before that age.
Of course this begs the question, what is so horrible about nine year old children who die, that they need baptism to clean themselves?
Earlier doctrine was that they were less valiant and needed the challenge to learn valuable lessons and to rise above their weaknesses in the preexistence.
oh really!? I'm going to have to research that one. It doesn't surprise me though that the Church would change its tune once politically correct rules started to play a part.
Yes, I heard about retarted (now, mentally challenged)being the elect of Heaven and because of their valient deeds in the war in Heaven, they were protected from Satan by their disability. My mother told me this in the 1950's. Long time LDS family history, her father was a Bishop. Don't know where the story originated (all her (Mormon) family lives in middle-Tennessee).
Those born with challenges can be either a carrot or stick in mormonism.
If you are a righteous family, then your child is one of the more valient, only needed a body sorts. If you are divorced, wear more than one pair of earrings, wear flip flops on a regular basis, haven't been through the temple, etc, etc, etc, so many little things make you "less than"... Then you are being punished for your "sins" by receiving a less than "perfect" child. Tsk, Tsk! Should have repented!
I heard this all the time. When I was attending byu-i I had a religion professor tell a story about a family he knew that had a handicapped son. He was given a blessing where it was said that he was one of the chosen that helped escort Satan down to hell and so he born the way he was to protect him from Satan. Horrifying to think of it now, but as a tbm at the time I completely ate it up. Now it just sounds so ridiculous.
Oh wow! This story just makes priesthood blessings look ridiculous. Some unproven myth that has been spread around the church, now promised in a blessing. What BS!
Saturday's Warrior--in the 1960s. I do have a slightly mentally and physically handicapped brother and this may have been where it came up--but not so sure. We also had a neighbor with a mentally handicapped child who was much older than my brother.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 03/07/2012 09:50AM by cl2.
Then again, not too many disabled people in the wards I went to. Cults tend to look for people who can put in an effort for the cult, not require one from it.
I think Orson Scott Card wrote about this in Lost Boys, too. I heard it from both my hardcore convert dad and my pioneer heritage, BIC Grandma. I wasn't at all surprised to find it mentioned in Card's book. He does point out that it is a common enough belief among members, but not an on-the-books doctrine. He also points out how insulting the teaching can be.
The phrase is either 'people with learning disabilities' or 'people with physical disabilities/impairment, or 'visually impaired people' or 'people with hearing impairment'. As a person with a physical disability I hate the word retarded, so 19th century, and I now understand why LDS friends call me 'LDS by proxy (interesting!) when nothing could be further from the truth!
Punishment for parents sins is what my parents have been told in my own church twice - my mother nearly punched the preacher! LOL! (Methodist btw - a while ago - things have moved on).
gerry1962 Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > The phrase is either 'people with learning > disabilities' or 'people with physical > disabilities/impairment, or 'visually impaired > people' or 'people with hearing impairment'. As a > person with a physical disability I hate the word > retarded, so 19th century, and I now understand > why LDS friends call me 'LDS by proxy > (interesting!) when nothing could be further from > the truth!
I get annoyed when people try to split hairs over sensitivity to the word 'retarded'. Retarded simply means that is slow, as in "put breaks in the retard position".
Don't mind me, I'm still recouperating from my weekend shift with my autistic client and still very tired and exhausted from his nasty behavior. Fortunately he has a program in place which allows staff to cue him by saying, "that's not acceptable" and "that's not appropriate."
I've always heard that. There was a lady in my ward that had a child with cerebral palsy. She made sure that we all knew her daughter was going straight to the ck, and so was she for taking care of her.
On the other side of the coin are people who become disabled later in life. They don't get that free pass. When I told my SP I was sick he made the comment that my heavenly father must really love me. I told him that if this is love, I've had enough, and don't want any more, and I thought that was a dumb thing to say. If you love someone you don't make them miserable, put them in pain, and take their life away. Especially when you are supposed to have the ability to heal anyone.
I was wrongly diagnosed with bipolar a few years back. My roommate told me that HF must really trust me and think I'm strong enough to handle it, otherwise he wouldn't have given me this disability. Made me so mad.
Yes, I was told the "official" doctrine was that they were such valiant spirits that they just needed a body to fulfill that obligation. However, one time when I was talking to a Sunday School teacher about it, she said, "I don't believe that. They aren't doing the things that they need to do on Earth." I suppose she meant going to church, temple, tithing. I wish I would have been smart enough to ask what she actually meant. I just thought she was mean.
It was the early seventies and I was doing a paper for a Folklore of Religion class at Utah State. The assignment was to find some folklore and analyze it. There was a whiff of folklore I picked up from the polygamists and chose that one as my topic.
It was the idea that disabled children and stillborns were actually perfected spirits who did not need to be tested, only to come to earth to get a body --and they picked the finest parents. Having such a child was a sign of great favor from God.
First I visited a facility for the developmentally disabled in American Fork and interviewed staff there. Also friends and neighbors from present and former Mormon wards. I was told (remember this is folklore) that many of the retarded/disabled children and adults who lived in the cottages were the sons and daughters of General Authorities. They did not visit them and it was very hush hush who the parents were. Many of these church leaders were descendants from polygamists and Utah was full of people who unknowingly married their relatives, so there were more disabled and mentally impaired children in Utah than in other states.
The leaders explained the increase in deformities and impairments as being signs of God's favor in order to promote polygamy. Not having perfect children meant that the parents had been selected by these superior spirits (the mentally impaired esp).
I remember interviewing one caregiver who told me, "the world would not understand that a General Authority might have several impaired children choose him to be their parent. They wouldn't see it as an honor, but a disgrace, because the truth is the reverse of everything the world believes."
In tracking "urban myths" you can easily see how inbreeding by the higher echelons of Mormon priesthood holders practicing polygamy would lead to "revelations" that created a mythology to make a good thing out of a bad thing....all the way down to today where most Mormons would never connect this folklore with covering up the ongoing practice of polygamy...
My kid has down's and I've been told such fairy tales by TBM. My DW is much more patient .... I just want to put my boot in their smug little TBM faces. It's a blessing or it's a curse; doesn't matter: God always wins.
anagrammy, that is some serious craziness. It's sad, and offensive (not due to you. Obviously.) and makes me feel like more research needs to be done and more people need to be told.
So much here to address. It could be fifty more threads, honestly.
From the polygamists I came to understand that it was considered ok if a disabled baby died because they "didn't need to be here anyway--they got their body."
When you start to examine these crazy ideas, you realize that people can begin to bend the truth to cover their ass and then a whole line of "logic" is built on that, then another one built on that.
You can't help but wonder if that's how the whole "Plan of Salvation" was invented--that's why none of it is in the Book of Mormon. It was just added to and added to so each successive prophet could "speak for god" and "reveal" something noteworthy or shocking.
This idiotic idea is not unique to mormonism. I have heard people of other religions claim that god had blessed people with severe autism in that they did not have to endure the hardships of life ? Huh ?
I work with mentally disabled (retarded/slow) people and my current client is a severe autistic man. He has severe behaviors that include, but not limited to, a desire to control everyone in ways that are larger than life. He tries to suck the energy out of staff by constantly grabbing them and dominating their day, getting staff to do what he wants them to do even if it is not appropriate. He is constantly trying to get an emotional reaction out of staff through various bad behaviors. He tries to intimidate them by using fear tactics. He is non-verbal and will grunt to annoy the staff. He is the most hyper person I've known. He is non-social as is typipcal of extreme autisic persons. He tries to piss of staff any way he can and in any manner any time of day. If he knows he's pissing staff off he'll do the behavior even more. He is completely exhausting.
Each time I work with him I can't help but recall the story I was fed in church that mentally retarded or disabled people are the very elect and will immediately go to heaven. I always think it's such a crock. If anything, this client must have been very, very bad and his bad karma is coming back on him. He is absolutely emotionally exhausting and likes to be mean. No, he loves to be mean. I am giving him another 6 months and if we can't work out a better respectful situation I'm dumping him. I have told him that if he doesn't treat people better no one will want to work with him. As it is, no one wants to work with him. I get paid only $20.00 an hour and that's not enough pay to put up with him.