Now that I am openly out of the church it has led to a lot of very good discussions. I have determined three of my friends that stay only because of family stuff, probably why they are became my friends to begin with.

I recently had a talk with my dad that lasted 3 1/2 hours about my leaving the church. I outlined my problems, we discussed it and he was not hostile or hateful. He has more knowledge about the problems with the church than I suspected, in fact, he has enough to know that it is not true. Yet he still performs the mental gymnastics to stay faithful. In bearing his testimony, a staple of any discussion of truth with a TBM, he talked about how he gained his testimony. He was raised by a conservative protestant mother and had a very close, religious family. He met my mom and in order to marry her, he was going have to convert. He knew that would cause a rift with his own family which would never heal, and 42 years later, even though his family is close, the church is still a sore spot. When he was praying for a belief in mormons so he could marry my mom, he felt he had to KNOW, or he would die. He got his answer, joined the church, and married my mom.

My mom and her parents turned out to be as crazy as shithouse rats, and after 4 kids, a good old fashion cuckolding, and enormous emotional pain that continued for years after the divorce there was, and is, no way he can ever see that the church might not be true. His faith is what kept him sane through all of the seven levels of hell he was dragged through, and to admit now that there is no truth would cause a psychic break, and I would lose my dad, and who he is forever.

I am sure there are thousands of people who have the same type of experiences.

Just another step in my deprogramming, and another insight into how to have healthy relationships, even when there are deep philosophical differences.

I understand your particular point, but I still don't get cog-dis. Cog-dis makes DW and some relatives and friends appear like space aliens to me sometimes. I can't be as nice about it as you just were.

icanseethelight Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> His faith is what kept
> him sane through all of the seven levels of hell
> he was dragged through, and to admit now that
> there is no truth would cause a psychic break, and
> I would lose my dad, and who he is forever.
>
> I am sure there are thousands of people who have
> the same type of experiences.
>



I'm sure many people in all beliefs have the same root cause which leads to the effect of staying in.

Most recently I communicated with a friend who converted back in the late 1970's and now she's in her 50's and was dragged through a lot of hell. She was ""inspired"" to marry an lds man who was gay but tried to un-gay himself by marrying her. This ended tragically in his death by stomach cancer. (he couldn't stomach it no doubt.) It caused her bond to his mormon family to be even greater. Married another man non-mormon this time - who never truly loved her. Had a child with him, divorced because he never truly loved her but claimed to feel sorry for her single life goal to get married and have a family in a location that was a mormon male wasteland.

I recognize the same thing going on for her. She is skeptical about the false claims towards mormonism and I noticed that if she admitted now that there was no truth to it...well, this would emotionally and psychologically cause her entire world to crumble. I think she's afraid that she couldn't deal with all that, and she defends it so she never has to deal with any of it.

I think the first bit of cog dis came when dating a nonmo who treated me with the utmost respect and care--and mormon guys were jerks.

I could have shelved many things and continued to do so until I did also experience different levels of hell. The one thing I KNEW is that my ex couldn't change, but it took years for me to dissect it all until it all fell apart. I had to step away from the lds church for a while, though--get out of the weekly programming. To me, it is a matter of you can put it all on a shelf until you run into a situation that they have no answers for--or the answers are wrong. I have found that many ex-wives of gays make a gradual exodus from the lds church, but it often takes YEARS. It took me about 20 to completely accept that it wasn't true--even though the moment he told me he was gay (29 years ago on March 22nd)--I KNEW he couldn't change no matter what the leaders told me. No matter what HE put me through, I always knew he was a good person, an exceptional person.

For me, it was life experience. I've said this before--I asked my Catholic friends how they felt about the priest sexual abuse scandals and they said, 'It is unfortunate.' It is NOT JUST unfortunate if it happens to you.

This was ONE issue in the lds church that they are so dead wrong on and have caused so much pain and anguish that the shelf finally fell for me. Nothing else matter.

My daughter is TBM now and I "support" her because I see that she has to do it her own way, but I see that shelf. She loves her dad. She loves all the gays she ever meets. Someday that shelf will fall--because of the same issue mine fell.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 03/09/2012 10:05AM by cl2.

This was on public radio in SLC last week: http://www.publicbroadcasting.net/kuer/news.newsmain?action=article&ARTICLE_ID=1909994

between all the problems in Mormonism) is a matter of self-preservation.

I think they sense at a primal level that they need to maintain their world view to preserve a marriage, their place in the community, a job, or their emotional stability. So they don't look at the big picture. They treat those dots as independent anomalies. They put their doubts on the shelf and say "we'll understand in the next life". I would venture so far as to say that I think MANY TBMs sense that the church is NOT true, and that is why they refuse to even look at information that challenges their faith.

They won't connect the dots and look at the whole picture, or allow themselves to see that the church isn't true, until they feel able to cope with the fallout that would result.

I think you summed up what I was trying to explain to nevermo DH this morning on our drive into work.

He wanted to know why I don't just show up at a family function and show everybody the man behind the curtain.

I agree, I have openly questioned the church for 25 years and have just withing the past year been able see it for what it is.

I also think that is why most people I know are not that surprised that I finally left.

It is funny, I spent the night at my dad's after the conversation and the next morning, when I was leaving he went back to what it always comes back to. I will paraphrase:

icanseethelight, now that you have done all this healing(leaving the church has allowed me to fix some serious lifelong emotional damage from childhood) just quit worrying about all the history and what kind of man Joseph Smith was and just concentrate on a relationship with god and how the church is true.

It makes me sad to write that. He truly feels like the reason and logic that has taken me to where I am is all part of a master plan that god has for me to come back into the fold.

They are afraid that their Universe will explode into nothingness.

They are totally dependent on their fantasy.

They have invested in it so dearly for their entire lives.

They feel like a Billion Dollar spiritual bank account is in danger of being robbed.

They can never face it.

I think you are right on target here. My mom joined the church in her early 30s, right after her mom died. In fact, she started going to church and taking the missionary lessons as her mom was dying. She was very, very close to her mom and leaned on her a lot while my dad chased his high-powered legal career 80 hours a week. The church sort of replaced her mom, telling her how to raise her kids, giving her support she didn't get from my dad, giving her a purpose in life in saving her ancestors through genealogy work. I don't think she can admit the church is wrong ever because all those hours of research, all the time in the temple, all the thousands of dollars hiring genealogists or accessing records ... she thinks she's doing it for a noble, unselfish purpose. She doesn't realize how much more valuable that same time and money would be in helping the living and to admit the church was wrong, she'd have to face that. She'd have to face the fact she wasted a lot of her life on meaningless church busy work and she'd lose her "mom" all over again. I don't even WANT to get her out of the church because she is in her 70s and I don't think she'd survive it, honestly. I seriously think she'd just give up hope and die. This leaves me in a really bad position when I try to explain my point of view to her but fortunately I can speak Mormon well enough that I can walk a middle line when talking to her. That and the fact she lives a good day's drive away from me.

all of the above, + more.

Even in a case of outright hate & lies (my divorce) ChurchCo will protect it's own.

'Friends' will tell you such trash as 'it'll all be taken care of during the Millenum', ignoring what the Book of Mormon says.

wormguano, all of it.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 03/09/2012 11:10AM by guynoirprivateeye.

I just cannot live in her fantasy world anymore. It was so disturbing on so many levels to maintain this fake relationship. So much changed when I left the church 10 years ago that our relationship changed with it. I've tried to answer her questions about why I left and all I get is the church is true BS. Her cog dis is firmly in place and there is no reaching her. Like Cludgie said, "they appear like space aliens to me sometimes". I just cannot be a part of The Truman Show anymore. I am so sad.