Personally, I think that most people will look at it quizzically and have their attitudes reconfirmed that:

a) Mormonism is weird;

b) Mormon Church leaders lie about it being weird; and . . .

c) then will get on with their day.

("LDS Apostle Jeffrey R. Holland: 'This Man Doesn't Seem Like a Dodo,'" in "The Mormon Candidate," BBC documentary interview with Holland, at: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ws4vgihE3Q0&feature=youtu.be)

____


That said, I think that, at the very least, it's a significant PR flop for the Mormon Church.



Edited 3 time(s). Last edit at 03/29/2012 07:26PM by steve benson.

I doubt most people will see this one. Wait until romney faces obama, you aint seen nothing yet.

>I doubt most people will see this one...

Correct.

Unless Romney or theChurch leaders do something to draw
public attention to the Holland interview, it will slip
into the dustbin of history unnoticed. Less than 1% of
the 2012 voters will even be aware of the video.

Of those who are aware of You-Tube copies, etc., few
will be undecided voters -- perhaps a few thousand
at most. And even those curious folks will not see
much in the interview that will help them make up
their minds in the voting booth.

A mere handful will be influenced by ministers and
other associates, who direct a few Evangelical voters
to the video -- but probably most of those folks
will vote a straight Republican ticket, even if
the presidential candidate was named Reed Smoot or
Heber C. Kimball.

What would be interesting, would be some future gigantic
media flap, which constantly re-directed viewers'
attentions back to the Holland video ---- or, even
more potentially damaging, to a narrated critique
of that tape, produced by reputable non-Mormons. I
don't see those circumstances arising this year....
but who knows? It may morph into something larger.

UD

I agree...Obama wants it to be Romney for sure. They will not hold back. The stupid republicans do and they will pay.

I wish I could believe in Obama so much. I have been disappointed that he is often weak. I don't think he will take on Romney the way he should.

Obama probably will not win re-election, but Romney will subjected to an all out attack by all the liberal media, and any racial incident of whites abusing blacks will be pumped up.
The "race card," and "anti-women" card will be used.

Every negative issue in Mormon past, and present will come up against Romney. Also Obama will use the weirdness of mormonism to cut some enthusiasm in Christian republican voters.

Totally agree it's a huge PR flop for LDS Inc coming at perhaps the most inopportune time.

What overall effect it will have will be interesting to watch for.

There just seems to be a piling on of one faux pas after another for Moronism lately and its henchmen specifically.

When it all hits "critical mass" here in the next few months with the campaign trail, I for one, will NOT be surprised by a "revelation" of some sort from Monson.

I still can't believe Holland admitted the Masonic connection of the Mormon Endowment to essentially the entire world (or to whoever watches that interview.)

I always felt as a member that the Masonic connection was to be kept hush-hush to anybody (even chruch members) at all costs.

Holland came across as a bumbling unconscious fool yes-man devoid of any personal ability of critical thought.

Or so it seems to me...

They can fool the sheeple, but they can't fool the Nevermo public!



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 03/30/2012 12:15AM by WiserWomanNow.

A masterful display of what you get when you are off script. The regular "joe's" in this were much more convincing than anything tscc trottrd out.

No teleprompters and time to practice the apostolic tenor, and we saw an angry, challenged, privilidged fat cat who is afraid of toto pulling back the curtain.

"That said, I think that, at the very least, it's a significant PR flop for the Mormon Church"

The entire mormon church is a PR flop. In Utah, where members are told what to read, watch & think, it won't make a difference. Wait until an un-named PAC starts showing the rest of the U.S. what mormonism is really about. The fools in the GA won't know how to respond. The cool part is that the opposition will not have to embellish anything to show the world how goofy & deceitful the church is.

It will have an impact....more so with those who thought Mormonism was just another denomination....boy will they get an education.

Last I heard the church wasn't growing at all. It was breaking even and because of the born in church members. Nobody wants to join unless they are mentally unstable or needy now.

Come on. People love to make fun of the church. It makes popular Broadway shows.

These are not PR rocket scientists, people.

They did not and do not have the degree of "revelaton" to determine, for example, if a Broadway musical mocking your beliefs is good or bad.

Before making a response to The Book of Mormon musical, LDS, Inc. waited. And waited. They didn't know whether to come out against it, ignore it, or come out for it. They asked for opinions and finally concluded that it was "all in fun" and the attention became known as the Mormon Moment.

These General Authorities do not have enough street smarts to realize that this is the Mormen Moment of Mocking. I mean, how much scrill has to change hands in the rarified air of those upper floors for someone with a string of letters after his name to tell these dudes that a very popular show which makes fun of you is not good for your image. Period.

It is against this backdrop that we have the appearance of Michael Purdy, whose stint as PR spokesman is expected to be brief. He has informed and illuminated the inquiring public by such statements as "LDS spokesman Michael Purdy has commented on the matter, “We have not seen ‘8: The Mormon Proposition.’ If you believe that, then you believe Sarah Palin who didn't watch Game Change but called it a false narrative anyway.

Purdy's performance and demeanor was exactly what you would expect from a deacon in an interview with the bishop regarding the latest output from is little factory. He was acutely uncomfortable "lying for the Lord" --to his credit.

Holland, on the other hand, is a professional liar. He suggests that only stupid people would join a cult. I suggest that's a comment that only a stupid people would make. Most educated people understand that we all share the capability of being brainwashed, if undertaken under the right circumstances.

The BBC special will have no effect, in my opinion. No one cares what Holland says or admits, especially a non-Mormon. Might as well say, "Holland today admitted that the Key of Ranhallah was hidden on earth rather than being taken up into heaven by an angel, as was previously taught."

His comments only have significance to members. The idea that what he says, one way or another, could be "devastating" is wishful thinking. I mean, the f*cking PROPHET got on TV and denied the cornerstone doctrine of the church! Every member who had ever gone on a mission and explained the Plan of Salvation should have walked out.

They found the papyrii, which proved Joseph Smith was a complete and utter fraud. Anyone with an ounce of integrity would have left then.

I submit that the members of the Mormon Church simply link arms and sing when there is something negative coming down the pipe. They are in seige mentality, which means they are Defending the Faith in these days of our greatest moment--the chance to capture power. They don't see Mitt Romney like the public does (why is he so clunky and clueless about how his words affect the listener?) or as we exmormons do (a Manchurian candidate for the Mormon puppet masters). They see a pure man like Joseph Smith standing in a ray of sunshine with the band playing, "My Day Is Coming...my day is coming, my day to S H I N E...."

Mitt Romney is already entering mythology as the One. The one to fight the battle against the anti-Christ. They are loving it because it is the only exciting thing happening in their boring, boring, boring world of "we have the light--but not you--we will let it out to you in dribs and drabs."

That's my take. I say little or no effect.

This is what will kill the Romney candidacy. It's the lack of compassion at the core of the religion, particularly shocking in religious leaders when compared with others in similar positions in other religions. Barney Frank points out Romney's complete lack of principle or opinion. This is Mormonism, Romney has to wait for the Brethren to speak before he knows what his position is.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/03/29/barney-frank-mitt-romney_n_1389365.html

Anagrammy



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 03/30/2012 12:49AM by anagrammy.

>Mitt Romney is already entering mythology as the One.
>The one to fight the battle against the anti-Christ.

OK -- let's fast-forward a year and Mitt is in the
White House -- special phone to the First Presidency's
Office on his desk.

The breaking news comes in -- the Israeli Air Force just
dropped twenty dozen bunker-busters on Iran, and Iran
responded with rocket strikes on all Israel's cities.

Mitt has, at most, ten munutes to decide how strong the
US entrance into the new war should be. The Pentagon is
recommending shooting nukes into Tehran. Time to seek
the counsel of Eloheim.

Does Mitt pick up the phone to "The Lord's Anointed," or
does he get down on his knees and seek personal revelation,
by-passing LDS Inc. altogether.

????

UD

A competent answer to the question "is Mormonism a cult" would be this:

"Well, that's an interesting question that has been getting a lot of press lately. Let's look at what criteria the experts use to determine whether or not a movement is a cult:

#1...

#2...

#3...


With the intellectual depth of Sarah Palin, Holland points to his "good school" higher education and condemns the labeling of his religion as a cult WITHOUT having ever looked at the elements which anthropologists use determining cults and subcultures.

Dodo is right on.

Anagrammy

No we are not a cult. Members leave the church everyday. And we don't even kill them anymore.

Every little bit seems to take a toll. The first time I really noticed the effects of negative PR was during the Hoffman scandal. Not devastating by any stretch but a number of members left and many others started to question. There will always be those who do not catch on, those who stay even though they do not believe, and the percentage that up and leaves.

Bad PR overall in this case. However, I am always amazed at the members' ability to explain away or ignore problems.

One of the top mormon leaders repeatedly insists he is not stupid; because on the surface the entire church and all it's history, sounds like cult and a series of scams played on foolish and weak people.

the documentary already defined the bigger issue and irony that creates it. AMerica was set up based on religious tolerance. The scam of MORmONISM exploits that tolerance beyond all reason (not that some others havent too !!!!) to a malevolent criminal Level.


It looks like MORmON scamsters have figured out a way to weedle one of their operatives into the US pres.
and the AMerican insistence on tolerating religion even at the cost of allowing it to operate as a criminal enterprise is going to take it's toll now. Stupidity is its own reward and in the case of stupidity that reward is punishment.

AMericans ppl dont trust MORmONism, but they dont want to openly
question MORmONISMS as it poses as a religion due to traditional american modality. many ppl just wont vote for Romney, which will be a de facto vote for the other guy. The ppl who dont like the other guy will never forgive the MORmONS for this tainted, blighted effort.

...it'll hurt. This is why these empty suits DON'T give interviews!

They are so arrogant that they believe "the Spirit" will guide them through. They're frauds, as Jeff showed everyone with his prevarication.

He / they (the SLC Monarchists) know(s) how silly it all (Mormonism) sounds when said out loud. That's where the "I'm not stupid response came from.

How can you ambush someone who is guided directly by the Lord?

Holland will have prayed for divine help and guidance with this interview so that the truthfulness of the Gospel would shine through.

Did God nip off to the loo at just the wrong moment?

He didn't seem to be spiritually 'holding the hand' of Michael Purdy either. Who, as a full time salaried PR department head was just appallingly bad in front of the camera. If this was any other Corporation Purdy would have been politely requested to empty his desk and hand his company car keys back before being escorted from the premises. He had a shocker.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 03/30/2012 03:19AM by Stumbling.

Essentially Holland was a stammering idiot who couldn't really counter the accusation from critics that the COJOLDS is a cult. I remember being a TBM in the MTC back in 2002 and hearing a "powerful" sermon than he gave to the missionaries back then. However, now with my eyes opened, he just looks like a sad sycophant to power desperately trying to justify his pursuits. I wish he could see him as those outside could see him. He looks like a desperate, clingy, naive waft trying to say the right things to the outside world in order to climb the rungs of power within his niche organization. The problem is, his organization is flexing real political muscle in American politics and is thus subject to non-sycophantic scrutiny. Look beyond the bubble, Holland. Look beyond the bubble.

The demographic that counts, one that is filled with people who call catoholics "pagan", will very much care. The religious right has no tolerance at all for even small differences.

Not even the political press in DC has latched on to this from what I can see, and I'm pretty immersed in it from day to day.

Most of the political press does not want to understand Mormonism, at least not yet.

Let's say , for entertainment sake, you're a Mormon. and you just watched the Holland interview.

Where was the divine inspiration? Why did God let him be sooo uncomfortable. Is God mad at him for lying? Why didn't god help HIS apostle pull of a perfect, sane, spiritually inspiring missionary moment for the whole world? Why would God pass up such a golden opportunity?

These are questions Mormons should have dancing in their heads. Where oh where was God? If he doesn't help his own apostle, why would he help a simple member? If he won't help an apostle promote his church, why would he help your 19 year old son?

JH's righteous indignation at being asked valid questions about a religion that tries to sell itself door to door seemed out of place to me. He should have been beside himself with joy for landing such a golden opportunity to tell the whole world all about Gods one and only true church. Wouldn't you think his countenance would be glowing? He's one of very few people on earth (according to mormonism) who talks to God and receives revelation for the whole world.You would think that anything he had to say would touch hearts and inspire people to flock to the church to find out more.

If Mormons are defending JH, they should be wondering why it has come to this. The only conclusion I can come to, is that most Mormons aren't paying attention. They really don't care, don't want to be involved. They just hope nobody asks them any questions. They aren't into deep thinking. They just want to hear the SS lesson, a FP story, and life a structured rule filled life. They don't want to analyze any of it. They are hoping they can live the rules, and collect some blessings, while belonging to a built in social club. They want to keep it simple, and not rock any boats.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 03/30/2012 03:04PM by Mia.

I saw the Hinckley / Larry King stuff as a TBM and thought Hinckley was impressive at the time. I'd say confirmation bias would allow a TBM to watch the Holland interview and think Holland did an noble and excellent job of defending the church against a tricksy member of the evil media.

I was a TBM. I saw the April 1996 Gordon Hinckley Interview on CBS 60 Minutes. I was VERY TURNED OFF by DUMB ASS Gordon Hinckley. If there really was a god who advocated morality, more and more I was beginning to see TSCC / LDS INC as a major hindrance to having a relationship with that kind of diety.


I was a TBM. I saw the Sep 8 1998 Gordon Hinckley Interview on Larry King Live. I was very Turned off by DUMB ASS LIAR Gordon Hinckley. I was finally convinced that LDS INC was a much more of a Negative than a positive in my life. I mentally terminated my membership in LDS INC. The need for any affiliation with DISGUSTING IDIOTS like Hinckley as a "prophet" or "brother" in the Gospel or any kind of spiritual leader was GONE.

thank you Gordon B.S. Hinckley!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4YEMX0VooD4

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rRCqbyL0p2w

I quit MORmONISM over this interview
I had watched this interview hundreds of times
but it took another 10 years to more realize just how deceitful Hinckley had really been when he LIED to the public as LDS PRofit on Sep 8 1998. Hinckley himself had performed a polygamist marriage in 1990.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N6mtf1_-rx4

But I also expect racism will supply Mormon weirdness and Romney's personality quirks with a lot of free passes.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 03/31/2012 02:07AM by munchybotaz.

Holland's response to the temple penalties was remarkable for a number of reasons. Despite his clearly misleading reply, he failed throughout the discussion to play the "sacred/secret" card and retreat from response. I've never seen a temple discussion go this far without that response.

Do you think we're seeing a change in direction? Could you imagine a regular TBM openly admitting Masonic parallels or that penalties were once part of the ceremony?

No. The most pub his BBC interview is getting is on boards like this. Go to google news and type "Jeffery R. Holland" The BBC interview doesn't even show. Instead you will find his wikipedia entry which is glowing, his Harvard interview which shows him in a positive light, some bogus award he just got for humanitarianism awarded to him by a bunch of LDS Drs. an article about a BYU building named after him and a new 170,000 sq ft. building art building named after at Dixie College. The majority of these articles are UT news outlets.

In otherwords, only Mormons care about JRH. No one outside of UT gives a rip about this dude or the LDS church. It won't hurt Romney's campaign because no one cares or follows the LDS church or it's leaders in the media. The only thing that some people follow is the church's history ie: polygamy, blacks, and etc. This gets way more pub than what Holland does.