If we were already living up in heaven with God and Christ, and already knew the gospel and 'the plan of slavation', why the HELL would we decide, "You know what? Lets leave this perfect existence, have our memories wiped, and go down to earth where all kinds of crazy things can happen."

Makes no sense at all.

This religion, at its core, is broken. The foundation never stacks up to any kind of scrutiny, at all.

neither does a "War in heaven" makes sense...

kind of contradictory don't ya think.. nobody in control up there?

It's not a control thing. It's simple logic. It's FREAKING HEAVEN! How could it possibly be heaven if they're having wars?

Valhalla - the Norse version of Paradise is to join with the gods in combat during the day.

The dead are then rejuvinated in the evening and everyone has a large communal meal and parties until dawn only to get up and do it all over again the next day. (slightly paraphrased)

So true...no one in control up there? Love it. And yes, war in heaven is just stupid.

Um, yeah. That too, LOL.

I don't know about you, but I'm having a blast.

Read Slaughterhouse Five.

That's a good book. But I don't get the connection.

BTW, Cat's Cradle is better.

The connection is "Everything was Beautiful and Nothing Hurt." Life can be beautiful even if we know that horrible things are about to happen. Stay in the moment.

I can see why we were supposed to come to earth and voting on it in the preexistence. Its the old "learn by experience first hand" in order to develop. This part makes sense to me.

However, the war in heaven to me is an oxymoron. How do you fight a war in heaven? Guns, bombs, swords, name calling, or ppl just departing from each other?

The part that is really oxymoronic is satan's supposed plan. It was a lose lose from the get go. In losing to Christ, he failed to succeed and is fighting a losing battle. In addition, had we taken his plan, he can't take our FREE WILL as God could not do that either. So how was Satan going to force us to follow? Especially if, there was a 3rd of the host of heaven who would fall with satan irregardless. That 3rd of heaven was not going to be forced in as much as the other 2/3's would have been forced to obey Satan's proposed plan.

No matter how you look at it, its deterministic. Satan was determined to be Satan and not follow. He was a fallen angel by no fault of his own, except that he would fall right on schedule like the determined person he is. I.e...no FREE WILL at all. How can he be accountable?

If Satan chose to be good and accept Christ's plan, then how would there be opposition? Its a circular argument that has no sound logic to it.

Exactly!

Wow, hadn't thought of it that way. This is why I love this board!!

I always thought it made no sense unless you were a fan of reincarnation. Not that it makes sense anyway.

To me, it explains how tiny kids can play musical instruments, or the way Tiger Woods got so good at golf so early, stuff like that. Then there's the fact that sometimes you meet someone and it's an instant "click" like you've known them before. I have always found reincarnation to be a fascinating idea as well, so I guess I'll just have to wait and see.

If 1) everyone lived, at least as an "intelligence" if not a spirit, in a premortal existence, and 2) this premortal existence went on for an infinite amount of time, and 3) all intelligences or spirits progress at least some of the time, then 4) how is continued progress possible? In other words, if in a millenium we will have made another millenium's worth of progress and thus reached a farther point, then why haven't we reached that point already?

I've never heard a sensible answer to this question. Anyone?

Mos will say, "For the sex of course!"

gotta get a body or can't have sex.

And what's the whole point of the plan of salvation anyhow? So let me get this straight; the whole point of life is to get back to heaven and live with God forever. Well, why did we leave in the first place?! Oh, so he could test our faith? God is all knowing, he doesn't have to test anything! He already knows the faithfull from the ones who are actually reasonable and require sufficient evidence before they start believing. They also say that we're here to learn and grow. For what purpose?

We lived as Spirits per the LDS doctrine. We decided to become mortals in order to gain a body like Heavenly Father. Can we even fathom the number of Gods that would create??

You came to this earth for a physical body of flesh and bone. Then, later, you will be resurrected with this same body of flesh and bone, but without the blood. Instead, you will have "spiritual fluid" flowing through your veins - which provides all fluids such as spit. It also provides spiritual semen which will be used to impregnate your many wives who have spiritual eggs which will become fertilized by your spiritual sperm and produce billions of spirit children who will ready themselves on your planet to be joined to physical bodies of their own on a planet you will make for that purpose.

Of course no one can remember any of this because a "veil" is placed over the spiritual mind of those going to planets to get their bodies. This is because there is another purpose for coming to an earth - to be tested to see if they can "find" all of these amazing truths. Only "very few" will and they will make it to the highest heaven and only they will be allowed to procreate with their glorified bodies.

But many on this earth never CAN find the "truths" because they have suffered, starved, died so early in life. Luckily for them, the "plan" allows them to "automatically" be saved in the highest heaven. So, they don't have to gain experience or be tested.

Just wanted to clarify.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 04/02/2012 11:01AM by Moroni Marten.

Well, when you put it THAT way... it really is one of the dumbest things I've heard.

Haha. Loved he way you clearly laid it out there. "Spiritual fluid" just sounds gross imo

Agreed on all counts. :)

This seems so very weird to a main streamer. This is not in the Bible. But it is similar to some of the gnostic writings I've read.

We are all doing what, according to Mormon doctrine, has been done on other worlds since the first God came into existence (another conundrum for Mormonism). So Satan rebelled, fought against God and took a third of the host of heaven with him, just as has been done on other worlds. Jesus sacrificed himself just as all the other Jesus Christs before him and those who will come after him.

There you have it, simple! Like my TBM relation says, makes good sense compared to those foolish Christians.

NOTHING CREATED AS LIGHT EVER BECAME DARKNESS UNLESS IT TOOK A BODY AND IN OUR CASE FORGETFULNESS LED US TO CHOOSE EGO TO RULE MANKIND EVEN IN RELEGIONS.

iF WE KNEW WE ALL COME FROM LIGHT AND THERE WAS ENOUGH FOR EVERYONE TO SHARE, THERE WOULD BE NO ENVY, NO COMPETITION, KILLING ETC AS WE ARE ALL SPECIAL.

IF THERE IS A DEVIL HE WAS CREATED FROM THE DUST OF THE EARTH OR A PLANET.

THERE IS SOME MYTH HISTORY BEFORE THE BIBLE THAT THESE DEVILISH CREATURES MESSED WITH DNA AND FUCKED IT UP AND GOD DESTROYED THEM THO THEY DESTROYED THEMSELFS AND THEY HAD NO SOULS ANYWAY.

SOME RELEGIONS LIKE ADVENTISM TEACH THERE IS NO SOUL AND THE DEAD ARE CONCIOUS OF NOTHING. IF WE RESURRECTED IMMORTAL WE HAVE MADE IT AND IF RESURRECTED MORTAL WE ARE DOOMED TO 2ND DEATH AND THEN ITS FOREVER NO EXISTANCE OR AWARENESS JUST BLACKNESS, UNCONCIOUSNESS AND NOTHINGNESS FOR EVER TERMINATED.

SO WAS THE CREATURES OF NO SOULS TERMINATED BUT THERE ROTTEN EXAMPLE AND MESSING WITH DNA/SCIENCE HISTORY IS REPEATING ITSELF AND IF JESUS NOT COME SOON HA HA, WE ARE IN FOR DESTRUCTION UNLESS WE BELIEVE THAT WE ARE LIGHT AND LIGHT AND DARKNESS SHALL NEVER MEET, NO COMPROMISE THERE.

LARRY.

Just what is left of "me" if my memory is gone? I'm a terminal Alzheimer's sufferer. And if my brain (or "intelligence"--whatever the hell that might be) then proceeds to build a new "me"--with a new set of memories--how can that entity be logically punished or rewarded for what the old, now nonexistent, entity did?

It's-utter-bullshit-ly yrs,

S

And then you have all the Mormon culture & stories about little kids remembering the pee-existence. What is our baby looking at and smiling - oh, I'm sure he's remembering the per-existence and smiling about it...

OK, class, tomorrow is your final exam. This exam will determine your final grade for the class and by extension it will also determine your whole future.

One thing, before passing out the papers for the final exam I need everyone to take this drug which wipes out all your memory of everything we've studied this semester.

Good luck!

By the way, you will all be getting different exams, some much easier than others and some very difficult, but, tough!

Yup, it's like playing for the Dodgers, and then getting sent to play in their Bakersfield farm team with all memory of how to play in the Big Leagues erased, then learning how to get back to Chavez Ravine, but even better because you get to own your own team!