Apostle Russell M. Nelson brings his uneducated and logic-deprived self to the podium at about 28:30.

http://www.lds.org/general-conference/watch/2012/04?lang=eng&vid=1538843470001

Nelson spends a lot time detailing the divine provenance of everything associated with the human body, including eyes, the ability to reproduce, and healing by virtue of obedience to divine law.

He segues into a discussion of the Big Bang (with much supportive laughter from the audience) at about 35:50.

Would someone with more skill than I please extract the Big Bang comment from that long piece of drivel? It should be posted on YouTube where it can be properly refuted and ridiculed by people with brains that are still in working order.

IIRC, Steve Benson posted a longer discussion of the LDS Church's take on evolution, creationism, intelligent design, etc. The official position, I believe, was something like "we don't know, and we don't say one way or the other."

However Elder Nelson's speech clearly refutes evolution, and then goes one step further to misunderstand Big Bang Theory. If that's not official LDS Church doctrine, what is he doing discussing it at length during General Conference?

I would say that this is one more nail in the coffin for the LDS Church. They have proven themselves to be at the same level as Ken Ham. The leaders have proven themselves to be ignorant and willfully stupid when it comes to biology and to physics.

The mormons who will say, "If you want to understand mormonism, ask a mormon" will the the first to claim, "a prophet can speak on any topic and should be believed."

Then, when you quote an apostle about some doctrine/folklore, they'll say, "It wasn't the PROPHET who said that, just an apostle."

I gotta agree with this: "If that's not official LDS Church doctrine, what is he doing discussing it at length during General Conference?" Too true. Not official, then why is an apostle preaching it?

Because the big wigs are above correlation.

The universe was not designed with us in mind...I'll let Dr. Tyson take it from here:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Weu7Rh6dYrM

The audience obviously agreed with the dunderheaded Nelson. He got a lot of laughs with his stupid conflation of the Big Bang theory with evolution -- and with his obvious failure to understand the Big Bang theory.

Unfortunately, no one was laughing at him, they were laughing with him as he casually rejected the science of biology and the science of physics.

Aren't all of the General Conference talks approved by the First Presidency and the Quorum of the Twelve Doofuses? They approved an anti-science stance. They had Elder Nelson deliver what they considered to be truth to church members. They've revealed the level of their stupidity, and that their stupidity is official.

Somebody should archive that talk before the Head Doofuses realize how stupid they've been and delete or edit the video.

It's not official, just his opinion, according to Christopherson. But what Christopherson said could just be his opinion too...

Aw hell, I'm more confused than ever.

Right!?!?! Lmao!!!

I think they are playing to their base. The uneducated, xenophobic, right-wing, anti-intellectual, increasingly-fundamental, tithing-paying, church-cleaning, science-hating, ponzi-scheming, baby-having, milk-drinking base. That's going to be the core audience that survives the Mitt situation.

Totally agree

My disgust with the anti-fact preaching of Elder Nelson has simmered long enough. I am prompted to create a transcript. I'll break the transcript up into several posts.

Here's the first:

Dear brothers and sisters, we thank you for your sustaining support and your devotion. We express our gratitude and love to each of you.

Recently, Sister Nelson and I enjoyed the beauty of tropical fish in a small private aquarium. Fish with vivid colors and a variety of shapes and sizes darted back and forth.

I asked the attendant nearby, “Who provides food for these beautiful fish?” She responded, “I do.” Then I asked, “Have they ever thanked you?” She replied, “Not yet.”

I thought of some people I know who are just as oblivious to their creator and their true bread of life. They live from day to day without an awareness of god and his goodness under them. How much better it would be if all could be aware of god’s providence and love, and express that gratitude to him. Ammon taught [delete quotes from Book of Mormon].

Our degree of gratitude is a measure of our love for Him. God is the father of our spirits. He has a glorified, perfected body of flesh and bone. We lived with him in heaven before we were born. And when he created us physically, we were created in the image of god, each with a personal body. [throat clearing, compressed lips, look of a used car salesman trying to look sincere]

Think of our physical sustenance, it is truly heaven-sent. The necessities of air, food and water all come to us as gifts from a loving heavenly father. The earth was created to support our brief sojourn in mortality. We were born with the capacity to grow, love, marry and form families.

Marriage and family are ordained of god. The family is the most important social unit in time and in eternity. Under god’s great plan of happiness, families can be sealed in temples and be prepared to return and to dwell in His holy presence forever. That is eternal life. It fulfills the deepest longings of the human soul, the natural yearning for endless association with beloved members of one’s family. [swallows hard and gets that salesman look again]

Thanks for that. So they all lived with God before they were born...how interesting. And God has a body of flesh and bone...another interesting piece of drivel. The public needs to know that Mittens believes this nonsense.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 04/01/2012 09:29PM by honestone.

The Big Bang theory can be seen as an attempt to keep a theistic basis for an otherwise material universe. Because the implication is that whatever existed prior to the big bang, caused the big bang to occur. Like say, a "god".

So it is a little odd that a clergyman would attempt to dis it.

As for the LDS idea that there has never been a beginning of matter, and that there is no place that is "nothing", they must argue with many teachers and sages of the Eastern religions and philosophies, the so-called dharmic religious tradition of Asia, who claim to have visited and witnessed a conscious state of nothingness. They claim that out of this nothingness, came everything.

I only mention this because of that silly song, "Hie to Kolob", that says no man has seen such a place or state.

Maybe no Mormon has seen this, but it's a bigger world than Utah.

I could barely stand the sing-songy Mr. Rogers delivery--at least 'Mr. Rogers Neighborhood' was designed for 3 year-olds.....

Part two of the transcript:


We are part of his divine purpose. “My work and my glory,” He said, “is to bring to pass the immortality and eternal life of man.” In order to achieve those objectives, god so love the world that he gave his only begotten son [a phrase which always makes me think that god should have had the foresight to beget more sons] that whosoever believeth in him should not perish but have everlasting life. That act was a supernal manifestation of god’s love, for he sent not his son into the world to condemn the world [well, thank you very much for the restraint, god] but that the world, through him, might be saved.

Central to god’s eternal plan is the mission of his son, Jesus Christ. He came to redeem god’s children. [wait, wait – I thought god goofed up and only begot one son]
Because of the lord’s atonement, resurrection our immortality became a reality. Because of the atonement, eternal life became a possibility for all who would qualify. [effing qualification] Jesus so explained, “I am the resurrection and the life. He that believeth in me, though he were dead, yet shall he live. And whosoever liveth and believeth in me shall never die.” [Bit repetitive, that Jesus]

For the atonement of the lord, for his gift of resurrection, for this sublime message of Easter, thanks be to god. [Here endeth the obligatory Mormon mention of easter]

Our heavenly father loves his children. He has blessed each with physical and spiritual gifts. Let me speak of each. When you sing, “I am a child of god,” think of his gift to you of your own physical body. The many amazing attributes of your body attest to your own divine nature. [Here we go] Each organ of your body is a wondrous gift from god. Each eye has an auto-focusing lens. Nerves and muscles control two eyes to make a single three-dimensional image. [pause for smug smile]

Religion, especially a god-driven one, makes it 'OK' for some people to harm others.

I want NO PART of such a scheme.

Part three of transcript:


The eyes are connected to the brain, which records the sights seen.

Your heart is an incredible pump. It has four delicate valves that control the direction of blood flow. These valves open and close more than one hundred thousand times a day, thirty six million times a year. Yet, unless altered by disease, they’re able to withstand such stress almost indefinitely. [bit of a stretch there, Elder Nelson]

Think of the body’s defense system. To protect it from harm, it perceives pain. In response to infection it generates antibodies. The skin provides protection. It warns against injury that excessive heat or cold might cause.

The body renews its own outdated cells and regulates the levels of its own vital ingredients. [Including, I presume, the level of bullsh*t needed to survive in a Mormon community.] The body heals its cuts, bruises and broken bones. It’s capacity for reproduction is another sacred gift from god. [hard, prolonged blink, accompanied by compression of the lips]

Be we reminded that a perfect body is not required to achieve one’s divine destiny. In fact, some of the sweetest spirits are housed in frail or imperfect bodies. Great spiritual strength is often developed by people with physical challenges precisely because they are so challenged.

Anyone who studies the workings of the human body has surely seen god moving in his majesty and power. Because the body is governed by divine law, any healing comes by obedience to the law on which that blessing is predicated. [So, if you’re sick, or injured, you broke god’s law.]

Yet, some people erroneously think that these marvelous physical attributes happen by chance, or resulted from a “Big Bang” somewhere. [dismissive sneer, laughter from audience] Ask yourself, “Could an explosion in a printing shop produce a dictionary?” [longer laughter, bigger sneer]

The answer to his question is no because that is the dumbest analogy he could have used... lol. As others have mentioned, it is obvious he has little or no knowledge of what the big bang theory is. He says this as if the "big bang" created life as it is today. What a d*mba$$ and more so are the ones that his analogy made more faithful and believing.

P.s. your commentary cracks me up :) I love it

Glad you enjoyed the commentary.

There was more going on inside my head, but it would have taken a lot longer to include them all. And some of them were profane.

Yet, some people erroneously think that God decided to have His Only True Church restored by a small-town con man, who translated some "Golden Plates" he dug up somewhere. [dismissive sneer, laughter from audience] Ask yourself, “Would God choose a prophet that slept around with underage girls?” [longer laughter, bigger sneer]

Oops, sorry; that's the kind of thing anti-mormons do, you know—stand in the Great and Spacious Building and mock other people's beliefs. Good thing mormons are too righteous to do that kind of thing, no matter how mocking they sound or how much space is in that great building.

Part 4 of transcript:


The likelihood is most remote. But if so, it could never heal its own torn pages or reproduce its own newer additions.

If the body’s capacity for normal function, defense, repair, regulation and regeneration were to prevail without limit life here would continue in perpetuity. [And we’d never get rid of Thomas S. Monson] Yes, we would be stranded here on earth. Mercifully for us, our creator provided for aging and other processes that would ultimately result in our physical death. [uh, thank you god?] Death, like birth, is part of life. Scripture teaches that it was not expedient that man should be reclaimed from this temporal death, for that would destroy the great plan of happiness. [WTF does that mean?] To return to god through the gateway we call death is a joy for those who love him and are prepared to meet him.
---------

Okay that's it. I can't stand any more of this. Elder Dude Nelson continued ever onward, but I can't listen anymore. I think part of my brain has died. And I'm not prepared to meet that death with joy.

Why was death not necessary in the Garden of Eden? Why will death not be necessary in heaven? Why can't life now be like that? Why can angles and Gods travel in an instant, but not humans? Clearly that type of travel is possible. Why did Jesus heal anyone if dying is such a joy? He should have just killed them or let them die. If death is such a joy why do the big 15 have doctors? Why does the church spend so much money on keeping them alive in their final months when they are not even able to function in their divine role as prophet as happened with ETB and other prophets at the end of their lives?

Okay, just one more quote from Elder Nelson:

"The spirit provides the body with animation and personality..."[pathetic attempt to appear animated, with robot-like (or Mr. Rogers-like) imitation of a person who actually has a personality]
---------

I don't know if that was the last lie Nelson told, but at least it was an entertaining one.

Nelson's speech has now been separated from the other Sunday morning speeches.

It is posted here:
http://www.lds.org/general-conference/watch/2012/04?lang=eng&vid=1541950015001&cid=5

I like how Nelson rejects Physics, but he accepts Biology (he mentions antibodies). Who died and gave him the power to pick and choose from the work of intelligent people?

Are those the same antibodies that attack healthy cells in all those autoimmune disorders?

Of course the doctor of medidine believes in that science!

Don Bagley Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I like how Nelson rejects Physics, but he accepts
> Biology (he mentions antibodies). Who died and
> gave him the power to pick and choose from the
> work of intelligent people?

Apparently not all of Biology. Evolutionary biology is integral for a lot of medical treatments--antibiotics (especially combating drug resistance), etc.

Nelson should read this presentation, from Berkeley scientists.

http://evolution.berkeley.edu/evolibrary/article/medicine_01

The Mormon position on evolution is taught everytime someone attends the temple. The primary content of the film is about the biblical account of creation.

I can't understand AnyThing about the "Big Bang", so any reference to it is useless for me (and x % of the general population).
Nelson knows this, its only value is rhetoric/hyperbole.

i think it makes sense.

the "big bang" is everything associated with the human body and the ability to __reproduce__. wink wink.

Refutation of Elder Nelson's pie-in-the-sky, divine view of the human eye:

When we examine each eye from behind, we find that there are six tiny muscles that move it so that it can point in different directions. Why six? Properly spaced and coordinated, three would suffice, just as three is an adequate number of legs for a photographer’s tripod. [...]

And some eye features are not merely arbitrary but clearly dysfunctional. The nerve fibers from the retinal rods and cones extend not inward toward the brain but outward toward the chamber of the eye and source of light. They have to gather into a bundle, the optic nerve, inside the eye, and exit via a hole in the retina. [...]

It would not be [catastrophic to vision in the case of a detached retina] if the nerve fibers passed through the sclera and formed the optic nerve behind the eye. This functionally sensible arrangement is in fact what is found in the eye of a squid and other mollusks (as shown in the figure below), but our eyes, and those of all other vertebrates, have the functionally stupid upside-down orientation of the retina.

http://www.2think.org/eye.shtml

I hope all the non-Mo's, especially the ones considering voting for Mitt, hear this twaddle. Nelson sounds like such an ignorant @$s. Even my junior-high son is more familiar with the Big Bang theory than he is.

The part where Nelson talks about death being part of the plan of happiness is just weird. (Didn't they refer to it as "Paradise" when Adam and Eve weren't subject to death, and then it was the "Fall" when they became mortal? Doesn't that imply that death is NOT desirable? Oops...).

Nelson is so obviously wrong, and twisted ... and has to shut his eyes to even contemplate "reproduction".

And he's one of the best the LDS Church has to offer. Cream of the crop. Near the top of the Prophet list.

Living effing apostle of the lord and all that.

It's telling. Either god's a fool, or Nelson is a fool, or they are both fools together. Or Nelson is a figment of his own imagination -- that's most likely.

None of this speaks well for the choices made by Mitt Romney. Fools of a feather.

I don't think the church is concerned about it's mass exodus of white, affluent, educated members. When Monson made the comment concerning "so called science", it was if any doubt I may have had about leaving the church was just put to rest. When we find ourselves on the wrong side of science, it is only a matter of time until we are completely irrelevant. I mean really, how long can we continue insisting the world is flat?

I am so done, so very done. How embarrassing to have been involved in the first place.

OMG. Easily the most ridiculous piece of Mormon crap I've ever seen ... and that's saying something!

If I didn't know better, I'd think he was speaking to toddlers. I half expected him to say, "And Heavenly Father was so smart, he gave us one hole for Number One, and another for Number Two."

I have the hardest time respecting adults who can sit through that with the slightest bit of seriousness. Brains not working!

Can you imagine letting a silly simp like that cut you open? There's just no excuse.

I really don't know how I got past the fish.

OnceMore Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------

> Nelson spends a lot time detailing the divine
> provenance of everything associated with the human
> body, including eyes, the ability to reproduce,
> and healing by virtue of obedience to divine law.

Well if Nelson is a Mormon he knows that God was once a man who had a human body before he became God, so the human body CAN'T be designed by God.

Has this man forgotten his fundamental Mormon Doctrine?

Is this, by chance, a recycled talk?
Seems like I've heard all this before...

"it would be like an explosion in a print shop producing a dictionary."
-Nelson

I can't wait to hear from my TBM relatives who think this statement powns me and my science. "Take that, Jesus!" I can hear them. My TBM ex wife will be ecstatic since she believe evolution and old age theories are complete lies by scientists.

Am I the only one who can't stop thinking about Dr. Sheldon Cooper right now?

I think about him a lot! TBBT is the one TV show that makes sense on every level. And Dr. C makes the most sense of all TBBT characters. (Well, most of the time, he does.)

And, this is the one and only time I like the idea of Bare Naked Ladies.

To me, BNL are a Big BAND.

If that's all there is (from LD$), then let's keep dancing.