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Posted by: spanner ( )
Date: April 04, 2012 12:14AM

This is the link for an interview with an associate of mine that played on New Zealand's Radiolive last Sunday. the timeslot guaranteed that few Mormons would actually hear it. Which is probably fortunate as Ray has had a lot of trouble teaching objective US history at Waikato University - which is the nearest to Templeview, our Mormon enclave.

Ray did a pretty good job I think. The only thing was that he probably didn't have the time to get specific about animals the ancient Americans were claimed to have (horses etc), and animals they talked about (lions and the like). So a Mormon could jump all over and say the BoM doesn't say there are lions in ancient America. But the BoM does mention them implying ongoing familiarity with lions down to Moroni's time, else why wouldn't Moroni clarify what a lion was. This is a minor point. But one that would get picked up on.

He also infers that the Jaredites took elephants in their submarines. Which is actually a more reasonable inference than that they were native at that time and left no evidence of a breeding population (they fit all the other flocks in there - why not elephants).

If you get offended at terms like "crazy", "cultish", and "nutty" you probably should not click on the link. Ray does state up front that the church is no crazier than other religions, but it is more recent and we can investigate its claims.

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Posted by: darth jesus ( )
Date: April 04, 2012 02:11AM

did that cause any waves in hamilton? some silly disclaimers somewhere from some clueless mormon?

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Posted by: spanner ( )
Date: April 04, 2012 03:15AM

This appeared in the comments (below the media window thingy):
Graeme Hill and Raymond Richards’ description of Mormonism on Radio Live yesterday (Sunday 1 April 2012) bore no resemblance to the faith of over 14 million members of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints worldwide. Before the program aired, we approached Radio Live suggesting that if the broadcaster was going to discuss Mormonism, having a member of the faith involved in the conversation would be appropriate. Unfortunately that offer was declined. We urge all in the media, academia and other parts of the community who may discuss Mormonism to do so with respect and civility. To truly understand the Christ-centred beliefs and practices of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, visit or drop into any of our worship services on a Sunday. To understand more clearly some of the historical issues raised in the program, go to
Richard Hunter
Pacific Area Director of Public Affairs
The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints

It has been "agreed" a number of times, so Mormons are popping in to read the comments at least. It is early days as yet - the links to the weekend segments have only been posted about a day. 524 hits already though, so a lot of people are listening who are not commenting.

I wanted to reply, but you only get one go, and I responded to another Mormon before I saw it. The point I wanted to make was that the official LDS sites don't address the problem of the multiple first visions at all. And I searched for "Bainbridge" on the recommended site to see if they addressed Joseph's trial for defrauding Josiah Stowell by pretending to see hidden treasure with the same stone he "translated" the BoM with. No hits at all.

Drop by and read the comments so far and have a say.

Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 04/04/2012 03:19AM by spanner.

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Posted by: spanner ( )
Date: April 05, 2012 10:41PM

This comment was posted in response to Richard Hunter:

Mormon Area Director Hunter can barely get through the first sentence of his arrogant dismissal of this very accurate portrayal of mormonism and its problems, without telling a lie -- but this is a well-known hallmark of mind-control cults. If I were you, Dick, I wouldn't continue to tell that whopper about having 14 million members. It is easily shown to be false by independent studies and national census figures -- every time you tell this obvious lie, you look like a fool.

For example, consider the Mormon church claims and the actual truth about the Mormon membership in New Zealand alone. The Mormon church claimed to have 96,064 members (2011 = 104,115) in New Zealand in 2006, however in the last 2006 census only 43,539 people were willing to self-report themselves as Mormons. This huge disparity in membership numbers turns up time and again all around the world when looking at Mormon membership claims.

In contrast, the Adventist church claims a membership of 17,183, while the 2006 New Zealand census reported that 16,191 people self-identified as Adventists. Similarly the Baptist Church claimed to have 22,947 active members last year, while the 2006 census reported that nearly 57,000 people self-identified as Baptists in 2006. It is certainly completely obvious that any independent census should produce membership numbers that are close to or exceed any truthful claims by any one group (such as in the cases of the Adventists and the Baptists cited), since there are always many more adherents to a religious tradition than there people who actually attend. The Mormons arrogantly claim 100,000 members, but they cannot get even half that number to tell a census worker that they are members.

Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 04/05/2012 10:42PM by spanner.

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Posted by: spanner ( )
Date: April 04, 2012 05:04PM

Up to 634 hits now. This compares to 90 for the "Space Cadets" segment in the same show. It is proving to be a quite popular listen-on-demand segment for the station.

Comments by exmos would be great. People read them while listening.

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