Another thread made me think of this.

Some of the posters who have grown up around Zion know the Utah accents.

The "older" accent deals with "Go warsh yer hands so we can have the Lard bless the food and then eat our carn with are farks."

The "newer" accent deals mostly with dropping consonants in between words.

Josessmith

Releasesociety

And then using a brief halt or a pause instead of pronouncing the "t"

Mountain, and Layton are pronounced more like "Mou-uhn and Lay-uhn"

So, it's not quite surprising when phrases get added like "Return Missionary" instead of "returned missionary" etc.

One other thing to point out is that these phrases come from a mindset of "We are always right - even when we are dead wrong."

I can't tell you how many times I fought over the simple fact that "thee" and "thou" are not the formal versions of "you." They are the familiar. So try as one might to change "Temple Recommend" to "Temple Recommendation" or "Return Missionary" to "Returned Missionary," it ain't going to happen.

But if it makes anyone feel better - language is learned mostly from listening, and that's why we have regional differences with improper grammar that most people don't catch.

In the Western United States, almost everyone messes up the correct use and conjugation of "lie" and "lay" whereas in the Southern United States its "sit" and "set." Each region can usually easily pick out the mistakes of the other region. But not within itself. The "lie" and "lay" even creeps up in novels a lot when you can see that the author and editor both come from the Western US.

Just a fun fact.

Raptor Jesus Wrote:
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> The "older" accent deals with "Go warsh yer hands so we can have the Lard bless the food and then eat our carn with are farks."

Isn't that a midwestern regionalism? An Ohio girl that I once knew told me that inserting "r's" was typical of her regional speech. Perhaps it's a remnant of the pre-pioneer days.

Could be something with a lot of Irish immigration influence.

Where are all the linguists at?

Yes, my husband and I lived in Cincinnati, Ohio for a time and the insertion of the "r's" was common.
What drives me nuts here is the ending of sentences with a preposition as in, "where're you at?" Even college educated people talk that way. Drives me crazy! Also the constant use of, "You know what I mean?" or, "You know?" or, "I mean" or, "I'm like". But that is nation wide these days. We have a population of inarticulate young people. The younger people I work with use those phrases in every other sentence. It drives me wild. I'm so tempted one day to say, "No I don't know what you mean?" each time someone ends a sentence that way.
I'm a crabby almost senior citizen.

I have a hard time with

"Have you ate?"

and

"We've saw that movie."

My mom's family, none of whom are mormon, all of whom are from Illinois, Iowa, Michigan, etc., say "warsh".

Actually, the "t" is not just omitted. A "glottal stop" is substituted.

This is not confined to the Morridor. It frequently occurs in other dialects as well. It happens because a glottal stop takes a smidgen less effort to pronounce than a t.

Thanks for the term!

And yes it does.

It's the same reason why you hear lazy people ooze words together instead of enunciating.

That glottal stop is popular where I'm from. ;)
I live in Washington(no extra Rs please!), and I grew up in the town of Re'en.

No wait, that's Renton!

would the First superfluous 'r' be an "extra" one, te he?

winks says (s)he's particular about the way (s)he is right/wrong about things; I fall into that category also;

I'm going to look back into the thread about Orgasms to see if (s)he left us any pointers...


Also: Didn't the 'warsh' thing Skip Over part of the country to get to Utah/Southern Utah? Do they say that in Texas, Oklahoma?

I thank Heresy for your point also!


Very Unique, all of this...

Don't think about me so much. If that's the first thread that pops into your mind when you see my user name... that really says a lot about your intent here.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 04/05/2012 02:45PM by WinksWinks.

Don't get me started on scones. Gawd. I love a good scone. Ask for a scone in Utah and you'll get a piece of deep-fried bread dough, like a donut without a hole-- which is good in its own right, but not a SCONE!!!

Once, when I was visiting in SLC, I wanted to drive south, to see some more of Utah. My cousin heard my northwest pronunciation of Hurricane, because we were going to drive through there. He said I should pronounce it "Hurken". He was quite proud of the "Utah" way of talking. The thing is, from what I have heard, that pronunciation, Hurken, comes from Missouri, which is where the Utahns get a lot of their inflections to there way of speaking, so to speak.

Yep, when we moved here, my daughter schooled me on the way to pronounce, 'Hurricane', so that people wouldn't immediatly know that I was a transplant to the area.

very few humans consistently speak only the modern standard version of their native language. We are all subject to socio-linguistic forces, wherein we identify with our community by speaking the same way the community speaks.

For example, say you knock on your neighbor's door and they inquire from inside "Who's there?". How do you respond? Do you say, "It's me" or do you say "It is I". The latter being grammatically correct. The former being grammatically correct in the linguistic sense in that the meaning is clear, even though the standardized rules of grammar have been violated.

Grammaticality in linguistics = the utterance was understood. Not that the speaker used the accepted modern version standard of the language.

Then there's also phonological influences on language. I.e., language is constantly reducing down toward ease of articulation. So, "swallowing" consonants and "mispronouncing" diphtongs, for example, is par for the course for nearly all humans beings.

In other words, we all have an accent.

And with that said, here are a few that I notice (in addition to the glottal stop mentioned above):

Extra syllables in words such as Westminster and realtor, which become WestminIster and realAtor.

In print, one of the items I notice quite often here on the board is the confusion in writing "would have" as "would of". I've also noticed some confusion in when to use the participial form of the verb. Something along the lines of "we would have went" instead of "we would have gone".

Regional variation is fascinating!

Erin

It reminds a little of the valley talk of the 80s. Since moving to Utah I've heard things like.......


"He should be in jell..." (jail)


"I love Nil Diamond..." (Neil)


I bought these jeans on sell...." (sale)

that in Southern Utah, a "Marman with a scamper" is a Mormon with a pickup truck (usually a Dodge) with a camper shell on it.

It would also be correct to assume that the camper shell contains several guns - the majority of which have not been properly cleaned.

one that always seems to creep in from our colonial cousins is the misuse of 'Then' and 'Than'...... No so much mispronunciation, rather, it seems to me, a lack of understanding the difference between the two words.

but I speak 'estuary english' and glottal stop like crazy, so I am not really the best example to anyone, innit?

Yep RJ...you NAILED it.

It's worse that everyone tries to be alike, and talk just like a TV announcer.

Regional differences are endlessly fascinating. They reveal so much about people. If people want to reveal their lack of education by using bad grammar, I'd like to know that about them right up front.

Why do you all think this is such a bad thing? We have this discussion on this board at least once a year, and I still don't understand those who say it bothers them.

It doesn't bother me. I find regional language fascinating. When I lived in Colorado along the front range, I heard a lot of Chigago-area regionalisms due to the influx of immigrants.

I feel very strongly that there is a right way and a wrong way to do a lot of things.(Not an uncommon problem for INTJs!)
I also try VERY hard to apply this only to myself because everyone else feels there is a right way and wrong way too.
People trying to push their own rights and wrongs onto others may still be a little hung up in the mormon paradigm.

Now if you're editing things for publication, okay, push those standards!
But the internet is too casual for that nonsense, in most of the places where "grammar nazis" show up.

And certain things just bug the shit out of us whether they make sense or not.

I love certain accents.

And others just bug the ever living shit out of me.

No real rhyme or reason.

What bugs the shit out of you that doesn't really make any sense, Heresy?

I bet there's something.

Apparently people who complain about accents bother me! And I didn't mean to direct that at you, RJ. You were just describing it, not condemning it.

Perhaps growing up with that accent is part of why I don't spell worth a darn.

I hated the way mormons would insert t's into words where there were no t's.
Governor Leavitt's wife was famous for speaking this way and it grated on my ears.
I'm so glad to be out of the morridor !



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 04/05/2012 11:43AM by Dave the Atheist.

Here's one I don't get. Ask and ax. I know it's a southern thing, but it seems like it's become popular to substitute ax even when you know the difference. Like saying Kewl (oh boy). I must be getting old and grumpy!