My son, like many people who have left Mo-ism, has become an atheist. He has an adorable little girl, nearly 4 now, (who is the light of her grandma's life, just for the record) who knows absolutely NOTHING about God, Jesus, Heaven, Hell, or any of that other stuff.

My son's FIL is gravely ill and his prognosis is pretty grim. So many times, people will tell a little kid that "Grandpa is in Heaven now," but that would not do for a child who has never heard of Heaven. You can't say "Grandpa just went to sleep and didn't wake up." That could make the child afraid to go to sleep. How do you explain that Grandpa simply ISN'T any more?

Thoughtful responses would be appreciated - thanks.

I'm very sorry this is happening in your family right now.

I had the same question when I left the church. Our youngest was 3 at the time. There was no death in the family so we could take our time.

At some point, all kids ask questions about dying and going to heaven. I can't remember how old she was, but we just gave it to her straight. All living creatures eventually die. I had the impression that it was not much different than learning about any other fact of life. She was mostly concerned with who would be taking care of her if me and DW would die at the same time.

I think the easiest thing is to tell the truth and share your own feelings. Death sucks, there's no way around it.

My eleven year old gets anxiety over death since I am a huge proponent of there likely being no heaven. I had to rethink my approach. I now really stress that we don't know and there could be a heaven and ask him what his ideal heaven might be. I also present reincarnation as a possibility since we're all star matter, and my son perks up at the thought of coming back as something else. Don't know if I'm doing the right thing. I wonder if he might be better off with a god and heaven.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 04/06/2012 02:36AM by rqt.

I've heard good things about this children's book...

http://www.amazon.com/Lifetimes-Bryan-Mellonie/dp/0553344021/ref=pd_bbs_sr_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1206319094&sr=1-1

AZEXMO Wrote:
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> I've heard good things about this children's
> book...
>
> http://www.amazon.com/Lifetimes-Bryan-Mellonie/dp/
> 0553344021/ref=pd_bbs_sr_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=120
> 6319094&sr=1-1


I bought this book ("Lifetimes") for my daughter when my dear MIL died of cancer a few years ago. It's a beautiful book. Incidentally, I believe religious people could use the book too with their children; it doesn't mention God or an afterlife, but it doesn't deny those things either or say that they don't exist. I will say, though, that the text was a little too sophisticated for my daughter at the time (she was two). It might be okay for a four-year-old but is probably better for 5 and up.

And here's another one ... she actually reads this book on video, so you know exactly what to expect...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5OGqZRaP5oc

How about saying that no one knows but some people think A happens and others think B and some think C. Then aske the kid what he thinks.

bona dea Wrote:
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> How about saying that no one knows but some
> people think A happens and others think B and some
> think C. Then aske the kid what he thinks.


I think that's what I'd do, if I had kids.

THis is what we did for my DD, 5 yrs old, when my father died: We told her Grandma thinks this, Uncle thinks this, neighbor-buddhist- think this, and I will remember all of the good things that grandpa did. Daughter is very sience minded so we explained what happens to something that gets buried. Then we asked her what she thought?
She went to the funeral, saw the open casket and was fine.
She eventually decided that there is ghost in all of us and his haunted our house (a good thing) until it was reincarnated into a tomato plant, grandpa's favorite plant.
She was very confused about the idea of Heaven. It took a long time to figure out that one of the girls at school was named Heaven and she wasn't very nice.

. . . turn on the TV to, say, a favorite cartoon show of hers, then turn the TV off by discreetly pulling the plug. The screen will go dark, she won't be able to turn it back on using the controls and you can kindly explain that this is what death is like: Life ends, just like the show ends, but you enjoy it for as long as you can and be grateful for having seen it.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 04/06/2012 03:36AM by steve benson.

Everything comes to and end, no matter how much we love it. Movies, summer, parties,... even people. But the memories and feelings go on. It's okay to miss people, to be sad they're gone. It's not fun, but we become less sad as time passes. And since all good things will end, enjoy them as much as you can right now.

Perhaps by talking about how everything must end at some point for new things to be made.

4 is very young. There are human development guides that explain what children can understand about death at different ages.

I learned about death when animals died. If he can understand it you might just try to teach him the difference between alive and not (like bugs vs rocks), and how things that are alive do not stay alive forever. They return to the earth and become new things after they die. etc.

I was going to say: point to the animal kingdom. Has this child had a pet? Goldfish? Hamster? Get her some short-lived critter. It also shouldn't be too difficult to go out into the world and find a dead animal, be it roadkill or whatever. I see dead critters on my dog walks all the time. It's obviously not sleeping. A hike in the woods, or children's books about the cycles of life.... seems useful here for explanation without moralization.

Check out the Lion King. That explains it beautifully--life's a cycle and everything has it's time and place in that cycle. And it's Disney, so it's aimed at little kids. Just stop it at the appropriate time and ask the four year old what he thinks about it in the context of what is happening.

In the old days children didn't have to be taught about life and death. It was all around them. We have insulated ourselves from the harsh truths and created another problem.

I suggest starting with plants and working up because children have strong attachments to animals, even if they don't have pets, because of so many books and cartoons which humanize animals.

Showing children how everything is born, grows old and dies is one of the duties of parenthood. Being matter of fact is the best, then (whenever this happens) the child will ask if they or you will die. Then you accelerate to the child's pet.

Like baura suggested, the truth: When Rover gets old and dies, we don't know what happens to him. We know his body will be buried at (whatever you have planned) and stay here. But no one knows where his spirit goes. Some people think our spirits come back as a different creature, like Rover could come back as a cat. That would teach his spirit some new things, wouldn't it? Some people believe people come back as other people. Others believe all our spirits go to a happy place called heaven and live with God, who they believe made the world.

This is a good time to lighten things up: "Rover, are you (a dead family member)? Shake my hand to say yes!"

The child might ask what you think. If they do, tell them the truth (we aren't sure, but... we think our energy joins the energy of all human beings which circles the earth...we think people are reborn until they have learned everything they needed to know...we think it's a mystery and you can decide for yourself--no one knows for sure).

Anagrammy

I wish I had a transcript of her sermon. The gist of it was that she talks to children about the fact that part of us dies because our bodies can't sustain us anymore and she had a great way of tying that in with people who die young because you can't always say that it's because someone is old and warn out.

But the thing I like is that she said in the same conversation she talks with them about the part of us (or their loved one) that lives on. She'd talk about them (if it was a grandparent) and how we are part of them (literally). How they are living on through us. She'd talk about the things they taught us. If a grandparent taught them to do something specific, like hold the door open for an older lady, every time they do that, their grandmother is living on. They live on in our memories. When we're sad we have that wonderful part of them in our head and we can think about the happy times and it brings us joy and it's their spirit (and we can claim that language for ourselves). Then they'd make a plan of things they could do to make sure their loved one lives on through them.

When my mother died, my kids had no problem with "Grandma died."

However when their pet rat was died they cried for hours.

I think young children get their strength from their parents. If they see that you are accepting, though sad, of the inevitabilities of life I think that goes a long way.

I lost my Grandmother at 4 and it really was just a blur for me then.

If they see that you are OK not knowing if anything is next after this life, they might be too. Explain how sadness and grief work and that they are always part of life since we care so much.

Most of us were mormons just because our parents were, and yet look how ingrained that was. I hope all of this great advice on these many posts in this thread are helpful to you because I think the child is very lucky to have a you all.

I bought and read the book "Parenting Beyond Belief" which was recommended by someone on this site, and it has a great chapter on dealing with death. I'd highly recommend it.

...both when they were little (9 & 6) and recently, now they're considerably larger (24, 21 & 16). I am an atheist, as is my wife. And as are my children.

I told them that death was rather like switching off a computer, that there was nothing left, but that the dead live on in our memories of and love for them - inside us, in other words.

And it's what I believe.

It appears to have worked for them and it works for me.

It doesn't make accepting it any easier though

Tom in Paris



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 04/06/2012 04:42PM by Soft Machine.

Unfortunately, there is no good answer for this conundrum.

Mr. Benson's analogy of "turning off the tv by discretely pulling the plug" is, as it sounds, pathetic. And children easily recognize this.

This is a major hurdle to the philosophy of atheism and, as long as you are atheist, will not find an answer that either convinces or consoles as child.

D

http://www.parentingbeyondbelief.com/resources/

Death and Life:

- Planning Nonreligious Funerals and Memorials
- Helping Kids Think About Death
- Best Kid Lit Addressing the Topic of Death
- Navigating Grief for Kids, Teens, and Parents
- When a Pet Dies

How about "Grandpa DIED. We're all very sad because we love him very much, we won't get to have him around anymore, and we will all miss him terribly."

Sound pretty basic to me...and telling the child stupid religion-based fairy tales is not going to dull the pain of parting when one loses a loved one. The pain dissipates after a while, and we hold the memory of the loved one within us. Why does religion think it should have the right to parasitize this basic natural process?

I didn't think this question had even posted, because it seemed like the computer had gotten stuck. So I was very happy not only to see the question, but so many varied and thoughtful responses.

I've jotted down notes on the resources you have recommended, or your own suggestions. I can't thank you enough for taking the time to respond.

Things are still looking pretty grim for Grandpa, and it looks like your advice will have to be put into use before long.

Anything I can do to help heal the ache in the heart of my little granddaughter is very much appreciated. Thanks again.

Lying and misleading creates all kinds of mental issues, as some of us can attest.

I don't remember what I told my son or if it even came up before my dad died, and by then my son was 14. If it were me and a 4-year-old, I'd probably say that people's bodies eventually stop working when they get old, and they die.

I also like Steve's TV analogy.