It's been a couple years since I came out as an unbeliever. 'Don't tell your kids' was almost the first thing I was told when I discussed my disbelief to family, church members, church leaders, etc. This was a huge red flag as I've always been told to be honest with my children.

I thought about the following situation at the time; I have a friend who was adopted as a child and lied to about it.... she found out in college that her parents were not her birth parents...she was devastated and angry. Contrast that with adopted kids who are told the truth from the time they're little and it's not a 'dirty little secret' it's simply something that makes them unique (and special).

I quickly realized that my parents, inlaws, and other church members were viewing my unbelief as my 'dirty little secret' that I should hide from my children. At the time I was pretty unsure of myself as a new apostate. But I looked ahead and tried to imagine how angry my kids would be if they served missions, payed lots of tithing, made decisions they would not otherwise make because of me hiding my 'dirty little secret'. And how would they feel knowing I had lied to them ALL Those years (even if they liked being in the church)?

I'm wondering if this is a common thing for others on this board to be instructed to not tell their kids what they've found out.

What kind of church would counsel you to lie to your children?
Tell the Mormons where to go.

I think this attitude/threat is very common within Mormondom. I was certainly hammered with it. Bishops will also threaten people not to explain their doubts (actually newfound knowledge) to other ward members or else.

And yes, I think a lot of kids of members who opted to pretend to be TBM will feel betrayed at some point. The ones that stay TBM will feel guilty that mom and dad are not living up to their so-called covenants. Looks to me like playing along and hiding your "dirty little secret" is a lose-lose proposition.

When I was learning and reading everything I could get my hands on, I had not yet told my wife or kids. I was terrified to tell them, and I could not until I knew for a certainty that the church was indeed false- otherwise I could wrongly destroy their faith.
During that time I had also been meeting with the Bishop who was also a friend and he had been very supportive, and seemed to be trying to help me through this ordeal.

But before long I was a nervous wreck on the verge of collapse. I had shared some of my findings with my co-worker and we talked about BloodAtonement alot and other topics. One day when I had lamented that I didn't know how I could keep this from my family any longer and whether I should, he looked me straight in the eye and told me - go to the lockerroom right now, and take a good look at yourself, tears and all, and ask if that is what you want your kids to go through later in life.

I did tell them and it was easier for them to accept than I thought it would be.

As for the Bishop, that's when the gloves came off and he went into attack mode. My greatest sin he said was not that my test monkey had escaped, but that I had sacrificed my entire family.

Yes, as soon as you see through the ruse, you become the evil "fighting against the church' heretic. Maybe they should turn the mirror around and see that it is a situation where they change too, they go into defense\shun\attack mode in a wild attempt to protect their belief while pinning the 'apostate that can't leave the church alone" badge on us. How dare we think differently or change our mind about something when more evidence is presented.

Your co-worker is very wise.

He's never known any mormons except me and a couple of other people. After our discussions and sharing a few choice bits from the Journal of Discourses and from "One Nation Under Gods" I don't think the missionaries will like it if they stop on his doorstep.

I still marvel at how painful my ordeal was. I lost so much weight because I was not eating and exercise was about all that I could do to make it all go numb. When they write in the BofM of being racked with the pains of a damned soul, that is the kind of language that best describes the anguish of body and spirit. But when the epiphany happened, and I was able to release the church being true as an axiom, the fog and pain cleared in very short order. It was amazing.

Then came the terror of the family ordeal and the unknown, and the struggle to understand where my values lied, and looking into the abyss of nothingness that I now faced when I thought of death, and the overwhelming peace that ultimately came as things resolved themselves.

And the best thing is, my kids are free. We now talk, instead of blackmail or other manipulation. It is so much better. My teens had a hard time when they would see me drink a beer, and one finally asked me why I did. I told them I felt I needed to for their sake. How can I advise or consult when you face the prospect of drinking if I have no idea about the concept. Also it is amazing to enjoy a complex flavor profile instead of just sweet.

This is when you look them in the eye, and say, "I have just discovered that Joseph Smith, and the church he created, is part of one of the largest scams in human history, and you want me to let my children continue being victims of this scam?"

When they bare their testimony, respond, "I know you feel that way, but that doesn't change the fact that the church is not true."

I totally like calling it what it is. the only part that makes me cringe a little is giving them credit for "one of the largest scams". They love using terms like big, fastest growing, etc to validate their claims. It is definitely the biggest scam in my world but for most humans, mormonism is a meaningless aberration. I like to tell them mormonism is basically insignificant in the "grand scheme of things'.

Tiny but pernicious scam. Better? :-D

Contrast that with their attitude toward telling people about the church. Them you ate supposed to tell everyone about your beliefs! It would be a sin not to tell all of your family even if it led to shunning and disinheritance.

My kids were all grown when I came out, and I did tell them. My oldest daughter left the church shortly after I did, and I have certainly been blamed for her leaving. One of my SIL's also threatened me if I were to try to share any of what I had learned with her children! (it was not a direct threat, but obvious nonetheless)

when our kids were around 8 years old. We did have them baptized because we didn't want to answer a bunch of questions about why we weren't. Our gay/straight marriage was going to be ending and I went inactive and my husband only went to his meetings as ex. sec.

One day the whole primary presidency came by and told our children that we were bad parents because we weren't taking them to primary and offered to come by and pick them up, etc. We just stood there in stunned silence. It didn't make our kids want to go--quite the opposite. In fact, my son said that was the turning point for him. He never really liked church, but this took the cake.

They basically want us to believe that our children aren't OUR'S.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 04/06/2012 11:25AM by cl2.

cl2 Wrote:
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>
> They basically want us to believe that our
> children aren't OUR'S.

Well said!

Right after my divorce, I announced to family that I stopped believing. They too pushed hard for a couple years to keep me from teaching my kids, to let them continue in what they were raised as, with their TBM mother (ex wife) as the one to raise them LDS, while I sat on the side lines. I told my family that I viewed my beliefs as valid as theirs and felt that I had every right as a parent to teach my children what I believed.

Even the single other family member who had been inactive and was also learning about the lies encouraged me to leave the kids be. He felt that the conflict between my ex and me over the church was not worth telling my kids about the truth.

I've not listened at all, and of five children, three have positively left and are very very happy that I got them out. The two older ones (17 & 19) say that if I had let them blindly stay in, they would have resented it and felt I had cheated them.

The 10 year old, who refused baptism, is very happy that he doesn't have to grow up mormon, even tho his mom forces him to church each week. He is asked at times if he wants to get baptized and the answer is, 'No' with a big smile.

Remaining are two of my children, a 12 year old daughter and an 8 year old son. The youngest reluctantly agreed to get baptized so that his mom & relatives would get off his back, but I get the feeling he would rather just skip the whole church thing. My daughter questioned for a time, but is back to swigging the kool aid each week. I hope when she gets to her rebellious teen years, she learns to think for herself.

My family is not happy that my children are getting out. Early, my mother and a sister disparaged me to my children by making comments like: "don't follow the bad example of your father." Or "Your father made his choice, but the rest of the family wants to welcome you in our group."

I told them that if they disparage me like that, I will not visit them with my children. Perhaps I am not being accepting enough, but I won't stand for their attempts to turn the children against me.

I have 4 older children who were taken from me by my first husband with the help of his zealous Fundamental Christian family. He told them I had deserted them, I was a bad person. He did everything he could do to be a superdad. He married a Christian lady and they set about raising them in a strict environment. I went on and got married and had another child. I have remained myself, and paid my child support and been gentle and kind, buying continual tickets for them to see me. But I wasn't able to raise them. My two oldest sons came for a visit. Each pulled me aside to tell me they admired me and respected me and loved me. They both want to move here. They say dad is controlling. My daughter who is 16 wants to move in with me.
I have been bad mouthed, called bad names and ridiculed and judged by their family over several years. In the end, 3 of the 4 seem to be encompassing me and loving me in spite of all attempts to take them away. It is a blessed thing.
I say this to encourage those who's children are swept away in divorce and told you are bad for following your heart. I was told one day they would see through it all. I never really believed that. But here it is, happening. Kids want to know truth and they will gravitate toward it. If you are truthful, they will come to see that is a more admired quality. They asked me if I regret leaving their dad and I have told them I regret nothing. Life is an adventure to be lived and I have no regrets.



Edited 4 time(s). Last edit at 04/06/2012 12:01PM by suckafoo.

"Well don't influence [my 12-year-younger brother]". Didn't have to.

He'd-already-figured-out-the-scam-himself-ly yrs,

S

They didn't need any convincing.

I have since found out that a couple of my siblings left because I did after I said that the church isn't what it claims to be. When I was blamed for this, I simply laughed it off as an "emperor has no clothes" moment. I suppose my family was expecting some kind of remorse from me; they obviously didn't get it.

So while some blame me for being the source for some family members leaving, I see myself as a pioneer with new light and knowledge while proudly seeing my exmo "converts" enjoying their life and humanity.

I didn't fall away, I didn't lose my testimony. I discovered it wasn't true. I don't show regret for leaving in any way, and I will discuss it or bring it up when asked or challenged.

Once I was with two of my kids at a park playground. There was a woman there with her boy and my kids started talking about Santa.

The little boy started to blurt something about how Santa didn't exist. He was maybe six years old. His mom shut him down fast so that he couldn't burst my kids' bubble. I figured his parents were strict rationalist types (or maybe JWs?) who didn't believe in the childish fantasy figures that many of us peddle to the young and saw some virtue in teaching disbelief at an early age.

This woman was like the apostate who doesn't burst the TBM bubble. The difference of course is that a kid will get over demystifying Santa fairly easily. The Mormon church's fantasies though are far more deleterious, demanding, and soul-sucking. There is real danger in those beliefs and the responsible thing to do is to present honest information and to educate one's children about the truth. The bishop or primary president doesn't give a damn about your family or the relationships you may or may not have with your kids 5, 10, or 20 years hence.

Your kids and family are just numbers to them, to be added or deducted from the success of their tenure in that calling. A success and number that will be quickly forgotten.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 04/06/2012 11:48AM by derrida.

It sucks that I left LD$, Inc. because I'm gay.

Very few members of my family seem to wonder (let alone ask me) why I don't return. They think it's because they think I'm a lost cause, or that I've chosen a life of sin, etc.

I wish they'd call & ask me why I haven't made any effort to repent and return to the fold. I'd have plenty to tell them.

It is very mormon thing to hide doubts or the truths and to encourage others to do the same. To ask you to hide the truth from your children is just not right. It may not be wise to dump all the information you have but I think they need to know that the church is not what it claims to be and that their mom's integrity keeps her from participating. Lying, even by omission, to kids about the church only perpetuates the attitude of lying for the lds church.

Isn't that a double negative?

"Don't tell your kids you don't believe in something!"


Only in a controlled world where everyone believes the same thing would it even be controversial. It amazes me when anybody, especially someone outside of your family would ever tell you what to teach your children. Especially if it was a negative like not believing in something. If you joined a religion that was crazy I could certainly understand people telling you not to tell your kids if they felt it would make them dumber. Of course even in that situation you have the right to raise your kids how you want.

It would take some courage to say this, and you would likely never be spoken to again, but here is what to tell the TBMs:

I understand that you BELIEVE your church is true. But just suppose that it is NOT true. Suppose that incontrovertible evidence exists which proves beyond a doubt that the Mormon Church is a monumental scam, perpetrated by the master-scammer Joseph Smith. Suppose that the evidence is readily available to anyone who has an Internet connection and knows how to run a Google search.

If a person fails to investigate and check out that evidence, then might we say that they are guilty of gross stupidity and willful ignorance? If, because of their willful ignorance, the person raises their children in the Mormon Church, then might it be correct to say that they doing their child a grievous disservice and being a negligent parent?

That is my opinion of any parent who raises their child in Joseph Smith's Mormon scam.

The church is losing the kids in droves. Not because parents are telling them, but because they are finding the truth all over the internet and kids are smarter than we give them credit for. I think most kids would be relieved if their parents shared the truth with them.

LOL like the church is some kind of authority on raising healthy, well adjusted kids. I remember a thread about how they would make carnivals for kids and then punish kids who didn't play enough godly games. That happened to my spousal unit, a dirty trick to make children feel guilty. The damage they do during puberty is terrible as well. They talk down to people like anyone except other TBMs give a fuck about what sociopathic old men preach about parenting.

...Get to tell you how to raise YOUR children???

So in other words, the Church is more important than your relationship with your children.

So it's not really a family-oriented church, but just wants church-oriented families.