A couple of recent RfM threads link to a video posted on-line which features gay BYU students coming out of the closet and telling their stories:

http://exmormon.org/phorum/read.php?2,467219,467219#msg-467219

http://exmormon.org/phorum/read.php?2,466770,466770#msg-466770


(And, not coincidentally, "Gay BYU Student" was trending strongly on Yahoo! as of this post.)

In light of this development, I have some questions:

Aren't single students at BYU still generally required to live in same-sex dormitories/apartments? So, when a gay student makes his or her sexual preference known, wouldn't making them live in a same-sex environment kind of defeat the whole purpose of gender segregation, not to mention cause problems due to the discomfort (homophobic hysteria?) of their roommates? But alternatively, if the gay BYU students are no longer permitted to live among their college peers, but treated like pariahs, won't this lead to a huge PR backlash for the church and school? (Were any of these issues addressed in the video? I had a hard time listening to it due to a volume-control problem on my computer.)

Whatever the case, I hope this whole thing blows up in BYU's and the church's phony faces!



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 04/08/2012 04:30AM by Fetal Deity.

I can't speak to how much these students will be accepted by other students at BYU. Let's face it, what the church says officially and what happens in actuality are two different things. Sort of like 'we don't shun'. Or, we have our token black person, now we can feel good about ourselves and quiet our critics.

The mormon church does not want same sex marriage, so how do these students find a partner? There are same sex couples raising children, for example, they are not accepted by the lds church.

Marriage is at the core of the church, and for many in our society, it is the core of their existence. And now, with more and more coming out (domino effect?), it will be very difficult for the church to try to pretend to view homosexuality as an "isolated problem," and it will have to accept that gays are REAL people with REAL feelings and REAL lives--as valid as everyone else's. The pressure will grow more and more intense over the next few years for the Mormon church to start offering them at least a few scraps of equality; however, as long as many mainstream religions discriminate against gays, I suppose total equality, including the right to marry, will have to wait.

This is no better than blacks being denied the preisthood.

These people are not really being gay, they can only admit to having same sex attractions, not actually BE gay.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 04/08/2012 06:01PM by MJ.

Personally, if I were if their position, I think I might just say, "$*%& it!" and leave the Mormon church altogether. But I am confident that their brave actions are the first step to EVENTUALLY allowing gays to live authentic lives within their church.

Sorry, but I do not believe that people admiting to, praising, living in and accepting a life of bondage is going to be what leads those gays out of bondage.

The fact that they are able to do even that much is because of the brave gays that have stood in protest of the LDS chruch, the brave gays that have embarased TSCC from the outside, NOT because of gay mormons.

Affermation, the organization FOR gay Mormons have tried to get a diolog with the LDS for YEARS (30 years if I recall correctly) and were refused. But the gays that protested outside the temples, that brought about a response and change. The leaders of TSCC engaged non-LDS gays associated with prop 8 protests BEFORE they enganged Affirmation and any gays INSIDE TSCC.

No, working from the inside has not brought about change. It did not for blacks in the preisthood, it has not for gays.



Edited 4 time(s). Last edit at 04/09/2012 01:02AM by MJ.

Gay people are not attracted to every person who is the same gender as them, any more than straight people are attracted to everyone of the opposite gender. They also don't have any more trouble managing their impulses than straight people do. Speaking for myself, as a lesbian, I am occasionally attracted to straight women, but nip that in the bud, because who needs the rejection? I would much rather flirt with and pursue a woman who I have a chance with, so I'll stick to the lesbians. The hysteria of the straight students living with gay students in their midst is their problem, not the problem of the gay students. Same with the military. They've already been showering with the gays for years, they just now found out who they were. And guess what? They're just not interested in the straight guys.

These kids are brave. I just hope they will not get disciplined or kicked out of BYU. I hope it does get better for them--but honestly, how much better can it get when the church you love and believe in condemns you to a life of abstinance and no adult love?

Even when I was TBM, I figured if I had a gay son or daughter, I'd advise them to seek happiness outside of Mormonism--I'd want them to experience the full spectrum of life.

That was really nice to read.

These kids are blazing trails for future generations. If one of my kids were gay it wouldn't change the way I felt about them at all. I really do feel for these kids & I wonder about this program they have at BYU now called 'It Gets Better'.

What do you think the church means by that? I don't really see things getting better inside Mormonism. I'm hoping they are not saying that it gets better only if these kids comply with LDS Standards and deny who they are the rest of their lives.

Anyway, I am happy to see the direction/understanding people are starting find. I really do wish these kids the best.

It gets better is a campaign started by sex columnist Dan Savage a few years ago. There had been several gay youth suicides, some of them fueled by bullying. Dan and his husband wished they could talk to the youth and tell them to hold on, that it gets better - and then realized they could, on the internet. Readers of Dan's column made videos, then many, many others did, including President Obama. The BYU "It Gets Better" videos are just another badly needed voice added to the chorus. Go to You Tube and search for "It Gets Better" and you can see people from every walk of life, celebrities, sports teams, conservatives, all telling youth to hang in there. Even if you're gay and a student at BYU, "it gets better".

It CAN NOT get better for these kids to deny themselves happiness in the form of true love. Mormons think life is all about enduring. Bullshit. Straights do not understand gay love is just like theirs! And the old farts who run the church are ruining lives. Loving Jesus is not going to fulfill these kids' lives!

Andmitting to and promoting the idea of living in bondage is not going to make the bondage go away.

the Mormon Church TORTURES gay youth. It is unacceptable. The Mormon Church also tells lies about LGBT people, and does everything in its power to persecute them. In the future, the Mormon Church will be forced by polite society to change its policies and doctrines about LGBT people or be further marginalized and irrelevant. And like all major chances that have been made, and will continue to be made, they will come because of pressure from OUTSIDE the Mormon Church.

Extracting oneself from a lifetime of Mormonism is, for most of the people who accomplish it, a complex process--with some risk of nasty repercussions.

Coming out is a complex process--with almost guaranteed negative consequences.

Let these young people be where they are (the brain isn't fully developed in most people until they are 25, which is far older than most BYU graduates). Encourage them to accept themselves completely. They will find their way. Trust that. Give them the understanding and support that they need where they are.

The process of leaving Mormonism *and* coming out is exponentially more complex. It takes some people longer than others, depends entirely on personal circumstances.

Any show of support for gay kids at BYU is a positive step. If one person's life is saved by that video, then good on it. And good for them in their display of immense courage.

And, since brandishing credentials seems important to some in this discussion, I graduated from BYU and later found my way out of Mormonism and out of the closet. A painful process in every way, but the result has been profound happiness.

Honor everyone's experience, dignity, integrity, journey.

Great advice that.

Sorry, I would NEVER advise any gay person to subject themselves to the will of TSCC and this is why:

http://www.affirmation.org/suicides/

Staying in that environment may and ofthen does have worse conciquences.

One one hand, props to those kids for being willing to be openly gay at BYU. That can't be easy. I'm sure there are many students who feel better for realizing they're not alone at BYU. And, Mormons need to realize that gay people are not so "other" to them as they might think.

On the other hand, I cringe as the video kind of misses the big point-- Mormonism promotes and fosters homophobia. The so-called "proclamation on the family" is homophobic. The teachings of the church are deeply homophobic. To the church, being gay is a trial and challenge at best. It's never just okay. And there is no way to live fully as a Mormon and also fully accept being gay. There just isn't. And no, being openly-gay-but-not-practiciing-gay, while in a celestial hetero marriage does not count-- that's what we call denial.