She wants to but wont because of obvious convention. But is there a rule against this?

I also mentioned to her that no Sunday School President has ever been a woman in my memory. She said that yes, she has no idea why that is. It isn't like women can't teach Sunday School and men can't teach primary.

I am not sure what the handbook says but a Bishop will not allow a man to be in the Primary Presidency and a women to be in the SS Presidency. I believe it is church policy but it is also based on tradition. If the Bishop thought it was okay, he would likely ask the SP and would get a big no. I base this on experience as I have seen this presented before at least twice (the SS one not the primary one).

If it's not in the handbook, then it's one of those unwritten rules.

But even if the church had men in their primary presidencies, it still isn't true.

amos2 Wrote:
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> But even if the church had men in their primary
> presidencies, it still isn't true.

To her it is true regardless of their rules. I'm just glad she can see how ridiculous their rules are.

It is a ridiculous rule (like many other things in mormonism

TBM's typically just accept whatever it is

When I was primary pres. I had several men teachers, that was unusual at that time. I think the handbook says the president should choose worthy women as counselors. It's not doctrine but it is a practice. ;)

subject for a Sunstone article, No Doubt.

When I first went to church, in 1975, before the consolidated program, I am pretty sure we had a female Sunday School president. That was in the London North Ward, which was in the St Albans Stake (UK) at the time.

Wow what a cool thing that was.

Back in 1979 in a branch I attended (also in the UK) we had a female counselor in the Sunday School Presidency, but shortly after a new policy designated men only so she was released.

I believe it is because of the type of issue mentioned by SWK in "It Will be a Miracle if You are Ever Forgiven." SWK was worried about men and women being in a situation where they might be alone with someone of the opposite sex other than his or her spouse. There would be too great a chance that if members of the presidency missed planning meetings that a man and woman would be alone together.

This brings up the question of whether extreme views on sexuality lead to an obsession with sex. I don't have many colleagues (other than the old farts) who are interested in the women they work with. The younger guys and gals might be interested if there is truly compatability. People in more progressive cultures seem to view people of the opposite sex as something other than sperm- or egg-donors.

Is that why the only place you are allowed to have a mixed presidency is in a YSA or single adult group?

The reason they won't do it is because it would subordinate the priestood. The primary organization is an auxillary.

Explanation:

The primary presidency serves under the direction of the Bishop. This is because the Bishop is the Presiding High Priest of the Ward. This keeps the Priestood as *the* authority.

Men can serve in the Primary as teachers/workers because the Primary Presidency are merely "advisors," obtaining their authority to "advise" through the Bishop. So a teacher is not a subordinate. If there is a problem with the Primary, a person would go to the Bishop for resolution. The bishop holds the keys to the primary organization and everything done in Primary is through his direct authority and the Primary presidency's indirect authority.

Having a man as a Primary counselor directly subordinates him to the Primary President, which is an unacceptable position for any priestood holder. This is not allowed.

It is a tremendous bunch of nonsense, but this was how it was explained to me during a bishop's leadership training meeting I attended in '98.

That makes sense Lost--thanks!

Women are only supposed to be in charge of other women and children.

All women are under male leadership. It is not the other way around, even partially.

Ha. My TBM daughter was just ranting about this this weekend. Going on about how she would make a fine SS Pres, and how ridiculous the rules were.

She'd probably be a better Bishop too. Has she thought of that?

The sacred sh!t of authority rolls only downhill, from penis holders to baby makers to their spawn. (At least officially. We all know of many LDS families where the wife has her celestial companion by the nut sack.)

indicates specifically that a "sister" must be called as the Primary President, but doesn't ever specifically address the gender of the counselors, nor does it even refer to the gender of the counselors with feminine pronouns.

Interesting, isn't it. I think it is an oversight, and would encourage your wife to point this out and submit the name of a man. That name will be rejected, but I think she should do it anyway.

This is actually the issue that got my dad started on the path to Jack-Moism. He was called as SS Pres, and chose a woman as one of his counselors. He was so appalled at the way the bishop balked at that ("But she's a WOMAN!"), he refused the calling and never accepted another one. This was in the late 80s, I think.

judyblue Wrote:
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> This was in the late 80s, I think.

Or as Pappi Bush would have said in the early 90s, "Wouldn't be prudent."

Being alone with another man's wife is the problem.

The pronouncement came down at the same time that no man was allowed to give a woman a ride home where they were alone in a car. You see, the sheep cannot be trusted with Christ's ridiculous Free Agency. They have to be kept separated like rutting farm animals.

One of my most embarrassing moments was when I was meeting with a woman over a calling and she had a sick child. She asked her husband to give me a ride home and he went upstairs and fetched a teenager out of bed to come with us.

I call it the day I became Just A Vagina. I had actually never thought of her husband as a "man" but once he required protection from being alone with me, I realized he thought of me as attractive.

So you see it actually backfired.

Anagrammy

Elder Berry Wrote:
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> I also mentioned to her that no Sunday School
> President has ever been a woman in my memory. She
> said that yes, she has no idea why that is. It
> isn't like women can't teach Sunday School and men
> can't teach primary.

From "On This Day in Mormon History:"

"Aug 19, 1979 - By authorization of one apostle, Ann Kenney is set apart as stake Sunday School president of University of Utah 2nd Stake. A counselor in the stake presidency, assures her that he has been "strongly impressed" to issue the calling and also had a general authority approve the calling. Apostle Ezra Taft Benson, president of Twelve, requires her release month later by his definition that Sunday School president must have Melchizedek priesthood."

Yep, its ALWAYS about the priestood...

baura Wrote:
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> requires her release month later by his
> definition that Sunday School president must have
> Melchizedek priesthood."

Why? That is ridiculous. Teaching "The Gospel" requires some SS priesthood? So women can't administer the teaching of "The Gospel" but they can in any other form of human education?

Mormon Jesus is pretty lame.

baura Wrote:
> "Aug 19, 1979 - By authorization of one apostle,
> Ann Kenney is set apart as stake Sunday School
> president of University of Utah 2nd Stake.

Sunstone founder Scott Kenney's sister.

Hmmm...

EB, In another thread you talk about how you have told your wife about your unbelief. Now you tell us she wants to call a man to work as her Primary counsellor.

I may be a million miles off base, so please forgive me.
But I'd suggest keeping your eyes and ears open and insisting that Presidency meetings take place at your house whilst you are home.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 04/10/2012 09:07AM by Stumbling.

Stumbling Wrote:
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> But I'd suggest keeping your eyes and ears open
> and insisting that Presidency meetings take place
> at your house whilst you are home.

I do.

As for calling a man, she gets along better with men than women. I've kept my eyes and ears open for a long time.

She knows that at any time she can end it. I'm more worried about her fidelity to the morg than to me. She knows who loves her more but likes to think she loves Mormon Jesus more.

Sadly, it is usually the case that ones TBM spouse loves the Church more than they love you. I suspect that is true in my situation although I have never tested it to the extent that you are currently.

It would be interesting to say the least to see something only women are perceived ever doing being done by a man assisting a women who is over him. LOL!