I might be moving to UT for a year or so, I am doing my best to dodge the bullet as I have heard some not so nice things, but I might not have a choice, boss's word is the final say so. Anyway, here's my dilema, I am not a Christian, I am a heathan. I am not loud about my beliefs, infact I am more or less a recluse; I more or less only associate on a personal level with my own or other close kindreds (For those of you who do not know what that is, that is like a heathan's answer to what mormons would call a "Ward", except we drink mead and do more outdoosy stuff) Anyway, I have lived in heavily christian parts of the USA before so its not been that big of a deal, but mormons raise a rather big and somewhat scary question mark in my head. I did some homework on the LDS church and don't buy the whole tolorance thing for a second. Only reason I think they would be tolorand outside of their UT stronghold would be because they are not as numerous. But like anyone, give them enough numbers and..... Anyway, I was curious for what I am in for. A little background info, as I previously stated I do keep to myself, (Not to the point of rudeness, I do greet people and when inclined will make pies, etc...) But I never discuss religion. When it has come up on ocasion I do lie through my teeth; my resoning is that I am not one of them, they could care less if I was starving to death in the gutter so why give them amunition they can use against me? Might as well ward off possible harm. Sorry if that sounds offensive to some Christians out there, but you try being in my shoes and see if you think the same way. Anyway, any information that one in the know would be willing to share would be most appreciated. Warm-Hearted thanks in advance.
Depending on where you live in Utah, you may get some well-meaning Mormon neighbors who will bring you cookies and invite you to meet with the missionaries. Of course, this is more likely to happen if you move to a predominantly Mormon city, such as Provo (where I live).
In my experience, they'll keep bugging you until you convince them you aren't interested, and then they'll leave you alone. It's much worse for an ex-Mormon like me because Mormons have been taught that we are evil.
I'm an atheist living and working in Salt Lake City. Most of my large, extended circle of family and friends are likewise on the agnostic/atheist spectrum.
But the quality of the your experience may well depend on where you live.
I know there are several Pagan and Wicca groups (covens?) around. I've got friends who have participated for years. There is a very healthy counter culture in Utah. You just have to know where to look.
Salt Lake City...you'll be fine, best in/near incorporated SLC, less than 50% mormon, metropolitan. Ogden...no problem,less than 50%. Logan...um, so/so but I'll tentatively say OK, 75% mormon though.
Those are the top 3 progressive places, which I loosely attribute to the presence of major public universities and/or a long history of national and international traffic.
Watch out for...
Provo/Orem, aka "Happy Valley". Here you will find a population that is 95% Mormon and it is very stifling...even by Utah standards. Home of BYU. This is really the cultural capitol of mormonism, not Salt Lake.
South end of Salt Lake Valley. Mormon suburbs, and connected to Happy Valley.
Davis County, Mormon suburbs again.
Then everyplace else along the "Morridor" (I-15 mormon corridor from St George UT to Idaho Falls ID, mostly majority mormon communities).
Ditto - if you are working in Salt Lake City, stay out of the South end of the valley (Draper, Herriman etc.), stay out of Utah County and Davis County. I have a friend who lives in Sugar House and says it's great. Do your research and you will end up in an area with fewer Mormons and religious beliefs won't be much of a problem. If you are working in Davis County, it's worth the commute to live in Ogden and if you are working in Utah County, drive down from Salt Lake City proper. It might be a 45 min drive but it's worth it.
Park City is nice too. A lot depends on where your office is.
True, but overtime that changed. We use it as a label. I am an Asatruar, but the average person here has no idea what that is. Heathen is much more of a convenient label. (When I chose to reveal my religion in public that is)
But they are usually white supremicist skinheads and, no, I'm not kidding.
Like other posters have said, there is a strong counter-culture, even in Utah Country. You can find like-minded people in places like Juice and Java, Velour, The Coffee Pod, ABG's, City Limits, and there's also a coffee place in the Southtown Provo Mall, a friend runs and owns The Coffee Spot. There are plenty of pagans of all flavours in the area as well. There are some very wonderful and interesting people in the Utah Valley counter-culture, but it is small and everybody knows everybody at some point, lol.
The main thing to be concerned is being hassled by the Provo police and discriminated against if you have the counter-culture look.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 04/11/2012 11:00AM by Itzpapalotl.
The sad thing about Utah is that when people judge you regarding religion, they usually look down on everyone who isn't mormon. Muslims, heathens, atheists, Buddhists, Methodists, Satan worshipers, Evangelicals, etc. are all lumped together as "undesirable" by the mormons.
A good rule of thumb in any work environment is to avoid religion and politics altogether. Concentrate on being a great employee and leave your personal life out of it.
I'm gay and work for the U.S. Army in Utah. I'm very out at work and haven't had any problems. My boyfriend and I live in South Ogden and love it. As people have said before, do some research when deciding on where to live. And feel free to come back and ask the board for advice on where to live. There are lots of areas you'll love.
I live in a town of 1,000 people with 2 LDS Wards. We don't go to Church and we're not jerks about Church, we just don't go.
When people have asked why we left the Church I've told them I just don't believe in many of the foundational doctrines and I've even told them that they'd probably not want me there because I won't keep my mouth shut when I hear something I disagree with.
I love going shopping on Sundays. Places like the mall and Costco are actually peaceful, whereas any other day of the week it's a mad-house. The closest "metropolitan" area near our town is Happy Valley...so wandering around the sparsely populated stores in Orem is really nice on Sunday. You should take advantage of that if you come to Utah.
It's really a beautiful State. I found that I came to like Utah MORE once I left the Church. The people are nice (at least to my face), and nobody messes with me. My daughter is best friends with the Bishop's daughter, and that's never been a problem. I guess my gun-carrying ultra-conservative Republican Mormon neighbors just aren't as big of jerks as their city-dwelling counterparts I've heard about on this forum.
Personnally I think the problem is over done. I'm an atheist with a fanatical JW wife living next door to a mormon exbishop and half the neighbors are TBM. We have no problems and visit often.
I also live in the middle of Utah in a mostly all mormon town but I just do not see any problems. I would actually like to see a couple of missionaries visit so I can discuss some of the mormon history with them but no luck so far.
This won't help, but while you are doing your outdoorsy stuff, could you keep me informed if you come across an animal known as a Curelom? I have a lot of invested interest in finding one, as anyone who regularly reads this board could tell you.
Don't know where you are going in Utah but expect to be lovebombed. Where Christians in general leave you alone and perhaps only offer to have you go to chuch with them once, the Mormons will send mishies to your door over and over, have neighbors be overly friendly and then when you dismiss them all....they totally shun you. In the end that is good so you are not bothered by them. But when I was there i had two young kids and they were terribly rude to my kids...wouldn't play with them, parents never said hello to me at PTA meetings or on the soccer field. They really think we are evil if we are not Mormon.
Do you have kids? Or are you single. Hoping you are single. Now in SLC I think you may have an easier time if you go there-that is what I hear. Mormons are rude, arrogant and do not like nonmormons. I was there 20 yrs. ago. It was awful.I liked the beauty of the place, but that is all.....was so happy to leave. It is very simple...they are fakers in the beginning. When you don't join the cult, they ignore you with their nose in the air. They only like their own kind. Sorry you must go there. It is a world unlike any you have ever seen. I'd spend much time in the mtns. to get away from them.
Hmm, well, I am single, love the outdoors and am a bit on the anti-social side. Also I do tend to avoid those who are not of my kindred and I am actually quite comfortable with periods of isolation. In fact I get annoyed around constant groups of people unless they are like me (Outdoor people, my own faith, etc.) wow the part about kids getting ostracised like that is messed up. I am not family oriented at all but am honest enough about it to admit I do not want kids. Wow for a group that preaches they love children thats pretty bad. Looks like I am adding Mormons to the list of people I lie through my teeth to and if need be backstab.
If you're a dude you might wanna avoid facial hair. It outs you as a non-mormon very quickly. So does being an uppity woman.
A year is a fine amount of time. you'll learn a lot but probably not be desperate to leave by that time. It is an experience. I only regret having lived here so long.
I would rather live around a bunch of Mormons than a bunch of general, run of the mill Christians any day. The only non-Catholic Christians I know in Utah have serious issues about Mormonism and will only talk about how much they hate Mormonism. Bleh.
Also, until you get over the "I'm afraid of Utah because people tell me to be" mentality, you will hate it here, and even the people who aren't Mormon wouldn't want to hang out with you. It would be an attitude problem, and the problem would be yours, not ours.
It really isn't a bad place. My theory is that the people who dislike it here would either hate living pretty much anywhere, or they project their terrible experiences with Mormonism onto everybody. I wouldn't want to hang out with them either.
Hmm, to be honest I have nothing against Mormons, but I am leary of Christians in general. They have been less than kind to me in years past and a few even tried to backstab me out of beliefs. It's rather disgusting, but those in the military will perhaps be able to vouch for me, while I have never served I have serveral friends who serve this country honorably and our proud heathens who I am honored to call friend and yet those who are Wiccans had to fight tooth and nail to get the right to put a pentacle on their tombstones (mostly evangelical opposition) and now those of my faith, Asatru are engaged in the same struggle for the same right of putting mjolnir on the tombstones of those who die defending our nation. Friend, I have nothing against Mormons so long as they are honorable. Needless bickering is pointless. Infighting is something unique to American Christians, not me and my own. I will admit they atleast look good and your sister missionaries are attractive. Mormons can't be all bad.
You know, that is something I never got, for a group that likes to talk about Christ, they sure do like to go at eachothers throats alot.
"You know, that is something I never got, for a group that likes to talk about Christ, they sure do like to go at eachothers throats alot."
Very true, I couldn't agree more. :)
Notice though that you were thinking I was talking about Mormons. Honorable or not, I do have many issues with Mormons and Mormonism, and they definitely aren't my sister missionaries. I wasn't defending Mormons, I was defending Utahns. We shouldn't mix the two concepts.
I work during the week from 9-5. At work, occasionally, religious topics might come up, but the Mormons around me really don't bring it into the work setting. In my free time I might go months between having almost any interaction with a practicing Mormon. I hang out with non-Mormons, I talk with non-Mormons, I date non-Mormons and I constantly meet non-Mormons. Other than when I was living overseas and nobody within 3 countries of me was Mormon (exaggeration, of course, haha), I couldn't have a personal life any more devoid of Mormons no matter what city I was living in.
I think the people who feel constantly beset by Mormons here in Utah are either still going to church, have Mormon family issues, or are perhaps insane. When it comes down to it, your attitude will have more to do with whether you like this place or whether you hate it.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 04/10/2012 11:51PM by snb.
Yes, I did assume you were talking about mormons. I am curious about them since they are in the majority and while I might have issues with them it is not for the same reasons you stated, its mostly that since they are in the majority they can get away with more than if they were not and to be fair any group is that way. I have lived in heavily evangelical/baptists part of the USA and wow, they do a total disservice to Christianity and are making it easier than ever I think for younger people, especially men to say no to religion in general. Yes I have been heavily inquiring into mormons because if I go to UT for a year once again I will be heavily in the minority and as someone who is non Christian I just wanted to get an idea what I am in for. AS far as just bashing someone because they are mormom, no that is just silly to me. I have a simple outlook on life, for us there are multiple gods out there, and it is the right of all people to worship their gods as they see fit, we just stay with ours not because they are better, we stay with ours for the simple fact that they are ours, nothing more. If the Mormon god serves their adhierents, all the more power to them and may it bring them success in life.
Depending on where you live, you won't be in the minority.
In all of Utah, Mormons account for 58% of the population. In Salt Lake City, Mormons account for less than half. You are more likely to run into a person who has never been Mormon now, when living in SLC, than a person who has been baptized in the religion.
Let's take that idea and add to it the idea of Mormon activity rates. It would not be a stretch to say that 50% of Mormons are inactive and do not go to church. It is more likely that 70% of Mormons are inactive, but we'll go with the 50% number for the sake of good conversation.
So, we can take me for example. I am not an active Mormon, but I was baptized. When I walk around SLC, when it comes to religion, I am in the minority. If I were active, I would be in an even smaller minority...by far.
This holds true for the rest of the state, to a much smaller degree and tighter margins.
Of course, it doesn't matter what city you go to, you will be in the minority based solely on your "not from that city" status.
Hope that puts things into perspective. :)
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 04/11/2012 12:45AM by snb.
Hmm, so you are a baptized, lapsed practicioner. Mind if I ask something, how often does your faith interact with heathans/pagans? Mainstream christianity tends to hate our guts (Then again they hate on everyone) To be honest your faith is as odd to us as we most likely are to you. I imagine interacting with your faith and I have images of early Anglo-Saxon chiefs interacting with priests from Rome or something to that affect.