I'm not sure if this is the right place to come for this, but I'm going to ask any way.

I'm in the middle of a divorce. My soon to be ex has been deceitful and has lied for me for years. When he finally came clean a couple of months ago I decided I was going to leave. He had been verbally and emotionally abusive to me and my kids (from my first marriage, their dad is dead) for 5 years now and with all the lies coming out I knew it was time to move on.

I was also in the process of leaving the church at the same time. I still had not made it official, but I had been doing the research and I already knew I was done.

My husband has now gone to my sister, her husband, his ex-wife and my friend from work and told them I am losing my mind because I am leaving the church and I am destroying my childrens salvation. He has said a number of nasty things to all these people. My sister and her husband were at first buying into all of it and I had no idea. When he told me, I turned around and confronted my sister. She was so angry with him because he had been lying to her and realized she had been betraying me. My friend already knew he was lying, but his ex-wife is loving it because she now has him back in her pocket again (she is super manipulative, gossiping TBM).

Now he is asking for another chance. I keep telling him no. He says he loves me and he will show me he has changed. He will not support me in leaving the church even though he says he will. But then in the next breath he argues with me about it. I don't believe him when he says he loves me. I have always been an object to him... a trophy per say. He has told me in the past (several times) he would love it if I dressed like a slut because it turns him on to have other guys look at me. I get the impression he wants "that" back. He could care less about the person I truly am. I feel I am better than all of this!! There has to be men out there who are honest and treat women with respect! And even if there isn't, I am okay with being alone. I would rather be happy and alone and living my life the way I feel is true to myself, then playing pretend with a man who has 0 respect for me.

Am I being naive about this? Should I give him a chance even though he has failed over and over again to prove that he really loves me as a person? I am so upset right now and I don't know where to turn. He refuses to see what he has done and what it has done to me. His words are abusive and mean, but then he says he loves me and wants to work on our marriage. Why does he not see the damage he has done to me, my children and our marriage? We have done counseling and I have agreed to go to one more session... but only so she can assist us in leaving this marriage as civilly as possible. He is a weak person in my life and uses his manipulations to control me and my life. I refuse to be a victim in his web any longer.

I wouldn't believe him. Like you said, I'd rather be happy alone than with someone who is toxic.

I say you need to continue to leave him.

He sounds like he is trying to manipulate you into staying with him and you don't need to deal with that. Plus you need to think about your children. Do you want them to think that this kind of behavior is healthy for a relationship? I would hope not.

While it may be difficult to think of a future alone; I think you said it best yourself. "I would rather be happy and alone and living my life the way I feel is true to myself, then playing pretend with a man who has 0 respect for me." From what you typed this guy has 0 respect for you.

Move on and when you have healed yourself from the abuse slowly step back into dating and then make sure you really get to know the person before you make the relationship serious and/or marry them.

I wish you the best of luck during this trying time!

He'll only "change" enough to start the cycle again.

Dump him.
No business would keep on a worker who has been caught cheating, and neither should a spouse.

The children aren't his, they are none of his business. Get them away from him before worse happens.

In fact whatever you do is none of his business.
Surely you are not seriously considering taking back a man who badmouthed you behind your back.

Mormonism is a crock anyway, and a breeding ground for dishonesty and manipulation.

There are good men out there. But like you said, you are better off alone than with with a dishonest mate.

I'm so sorry your first husband died.

Words are cheap.

Actions speak louder than words.

Flattery will get you anywhere.

Promises Are Like Babies: Easy To Make

Your actions speak so loudly that I can’t hear your words.

Only take him back if you don't mind going through this cycle over and over until you are so used up and exhausted that you are broken in every way. He has no care or concern for you.

In the immortal words of Dan Savage, DTMFA (Dump the Mother****** Already).

Your instincts are correct. Get out while you can.

If you've been to counseling, then you've probably seen him manipulate the counselor.

How many chances have you given him before now?

He doesn't sound at all trustworthy. I couldn't stand the thought of being married to a manipulative liar.

You deserve better.

Sadly I am probably nowhere near where you live, am far too old and far too married, too. ;oD

But hey, I can send you a cyberhug. ;o))

Life is too short. Get out and begin enjoying a life without liars, cheats and crazy-making scheming nut cases. However, you need to be making this decision based on what you know and what your experiences have been. You owe it to yourself and your children to think clearly and make this decision on your own without regret. Good luck to you!

When someone shows you who they are the first time, believe them. He has shown you who he truly is. Believe him and keep moving.

I wish I could remember where I read it, but years ago I read an article talking about mental abuse, and why people put up with it for so long. The timing was perfect because it opened my eyes to what the RM I was dating at the time was doing.


It talked about how when you first meet, the person will put you up on a pedestal, treat you well and heap on the compliments. Then slowly, they start chopping that pedestal down. The compliments slow, and then become subtly cutting. While doing this, they also start isolating you from family and friends, acting like they just want to spend all their time with you, but it makes it so that no one that really knows and loves you sees what is happening.

At this point, you don't recognize the abuse and just feel like you aren't doing things well enough, and if you can just be better, they will love you again and you will be back on your pedestal.

It sounds like he's in full-blown duct-tape-the-pedestal-back-together mode, and from what you wrote, you know that once he's got you back up there, he'll start unraveling it again. The way you've described him, he is more sad about losing his 'trophy' than his marriage falling apart. You and your kids deserve more...

If you ever need to meet up for a coffee (or an adult beverage) and have a good rant, I'm just up the mountain.

Good luck

Why would you believe a word out of his mouth? You can do no worse than be with him. I divorced almost 30 years ago,,never remarried. I am very comfortable in life. I discovered I like myself and my way of life. Life is a sea of choices. Choose what is best for you and your kids.

Don't fall for this bull$h!+ again!

I'm with the others, don't fall for his crap, he will never change. He's shown you his true self, and it's time to get the courage to leave, at least for your children to teach them that women are not to be treated that way, nor should a woman put up with that.

It really is better to be alone than to be in an abusive marriage, and I know from experience. My ex was like your "husband" in that he was emotionally abusive, and when I finally got the courage to leave him, I decided I would rather be alone than with someone like that again. There are real men out there who treat women with respect, and are not at all abusive.

Someone who loves you doesn't badmouth you to family and friends, doesn't cut you down, and doesn't relentlessly lie to you. You've seen what this man has to offer. He isn't going to change.

You can do better than that. Even if better means being on your own for the indefinite future. I've been single my entire life, and I'm really quite content. You'll be okay.

I also think that you need to consider your children. I wouldn't want kids that I cared about to be around such a person.

Good luck to you. Be brave and do what you need to do. You have too much going for you to be mistreated like that.

Quit second-guessing yourself, niki77.

You're in the middle of a divorce; that's not where good relationships end up. Keep moving forward. And good luck! :-)

Here are some book recommendations that will help to solidify your thinking and give you the strength to follow the advice you have been given on this thread: The Verbally Abusive Relationship, Controlling People, the Verbally Abusive Man Can He Change?, and Victory Over Verbal Abuse. All by Patricia Evans

Once you understand the phenomenon of abuse, you will never go back.

If not for your own sake, leave him for the childrens sake. They deserve much better than to have their stepfather abuse them.

When a man tells you or others "you have lost your mind" you need to understand this is a verbally abusive tactic they use and it is very sexist. It is telling you and others that you are stupid and lack common sense because you are a female and aren't as bright as they are. You have lost your mind? LOST YOUR MIND???
I am the last person to ask what to do, but I wanted to point that out. You have not lost your mind. But you might one day.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 04/10/2012 07:48PM by suckafoo.

Get away from him. You said it yourself:
"(He)uses his manipulations to control me and my life"

Then you said: "I refuse to be a victim in his web any longer."

He is a classic abuser and he gets off on controlling you. He's looking for a woman who will buy into it. There are plenty out there. The question is are you one of them?

From reading your post, i gather that you want to leave him, don't love him. Listen to your intuition. Don't start second guessing yourself.

If he REALLY loves you he will still be there during and after the divorce proving to you he has changed. If after 5 or so years of continued good behavior from him (or whenever your last child is out of the house, which ever is LAST) then if you want to try again, be my guest.

Hopefully by that time you will have outgrown him and it will be a moot point.

good luck. do what's best for yourself and the kids.

Run do not walk to your nearest YWCA and ask them if they have a women's support group. Tell them your story and you will get therapy (for yourself and your children probably for free). The women in this group have all been where you are and some still are.

"Should I leave?" "What if he does change?" How long do you want to ask yourself questions you know the answers to?

He will NOT change, you should leave asap and have a plan. He will talk about you to whomever will listen and you will quickly learn who your true friends are. Other than professionals, share your story with as few people (those you super trust) as possible...church members flip sides with whichever way the wind is blowing be very careful of those you thought were your church friends. They will ask you many questions and then they will return and report! Remember, they were assigned (called) to be your friend.

I know what I am talking about, I am in the eye of the hurricane! If I can do it for my kids, so can you. Do IT! You know it's the right thing to do or you wouldn't have asked us to confirm what you already know.

So, your 'to do' list reads something like this:
1) Get rid of abusive husband and save children and self
2) Get out of CULT

That will do.

Good luck!

The key word is abuse. So leave him. Let him be sad that you are no longer around to abuse. He is obviously not a good person to hurt you so much. It really is a good feeling when you are rid of a liar. I know. I have been through it. Your life is yours. don't worry what others say about you regarding leaving the church or him. YOU know the truth and that is all that matters.Be strong. Try not to get into discussions with the kids around. Speak to them tenderly about your decision and all should go as good as one can hope for. If you think he will lie to the kids about you then tell them what you think he will say about you and say..."Kids, you know your mom. Am I like that?" Prepare them. It helps a lot.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 04/10/2012 08:10PM by honestone.

Emotionally and verbally abusive? And you still have doubts if you should leave him?

RUN before he makes psychotics out of your kids!!

You were a vulnerable widow with dependents, so he honed in on you.

Divorcing him and the Mormon church is the smartest move you can make.
Let him be some other woman's problem.

It sounds like you need to convince yourself of what you already know.

Here’s one way to do that. Take a piece of paper and divided it in half the long way. On one half write everything that would be better if you left. Put everything you can possible think of, even dumb stuff like having the closet to yourself. And also important things like less stress etc. On the other side write everything that would be better if you stayed. Use as many sheets as you need to write everything till you can’t think of anything else.

When you are done with your list, you will have a visual representation of what you really think you should do. Everyone that I’ve done this with that seemed to be pretty wishy washy on what to do, end up with a list that was pretty lop sided in one direction. Then they were able to make a decision and feel confident in the decision.

Some facts to seek out --and make sure you know the answers:

1 Find out the REAL reason for his first divorce, and why he is still friends with his EX WIFE.

2 Find a way to support yourself and a safe haven for kids.

3 Find out REAL facts about his lies, itemize them for future reference..

BELIEVE NOTHING HE SAYS, AND CARE NOTHING ABOUT WHAT ANYBODY ELSE THINKS OF YOU -BE PREPARED FOR THEIR ISOLATION TACTICS -- THEY ARE NOT LIVING YOUR LIFE.

JB

Wow, usually there are many differing opinions offered on posts like this, but there seems to be quite a consensus here. So you probably don't need anymore responses, but I just want to say that I agree with pretty much everyone else so far: don't stay unless you are a glutton for punishment.

Sounds like a classic abusive personality, and they are nearly universally incapable of change.

Thanks everyone for the support and advice. This has become so messy. I wish I had recognized this abuse years ago. It is definitely over. When we went to our counselor this last week as a family the first thing she said to all of us was, divorce is child abuse. However once she got done talking to my kids she had them leave and then she ripped my husband a new one. She was furious. She called him every name in the book. At the end she said those kids would be fine without him and that is his fault. Finally someone who saw him for who he really is.

I do need to clarify a couple things. My first husband was a divorce too. His was for different reasons. He was a drug addict and he became too dangerous for me and my kids. However he was a good man. Before the drugs and when he kept himself clean he treated me and the kids like gold. The drugs just won out and destroyed our marriage and soon after took his life. I still have a great relationship with his family which thank God they are not TBMs. His death was part of the reason I had such a hard time with the church. Too many people told me he would never be with his kids again. Whatever is out there after this life I cant imagine any God or higher power separating families just for the fun of it.

I also have one child with my current husband. He is two and I know my husband loves him. But he can love him without having me. I will no longer be his possession. I can deal with the custody issues and the BS that goes with all that. All my kids will grow up strong and free thinkers because I will not put up with this man any longer.

I have a great job and I make enough money to take care of my kids and myself. As my family is recognizing his manipulations they are turning their backs on him and supporting me. Plus I always have my first husbands family. I have you guys as support as well and I am so glad I found this recovery group! The church is a part of my past and I am so much more happy now that I made that decision. Thanks again everyone!