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Posted by: summer ( )
Date: April 13, 2012 11:48AM

"Unlike other Christian missionaries in Kampala, Ugandans say, Mormons never ask for money."

Not right away, at least. Then they ask for lots of money.

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Posted by: aaanonaaa ( )
Date: April 13, 2012 11:57AM

This is a very bad, bad thing.

Uganda has been involved in genocide and internal terrorism for at least the past twenty years...and is in a VERY sleazy series of ugly and convoluted relationship with some American Christian groups which are related to legal (and extra-legal) persecution and murder of those who are identified as "homosexuals." (The word "gay" definitely does NOT apply to Uganda in ANY WAY.)

Sending kids to Uganda (some of whom are undoubtedly "homosexual" by Ugandan standards) is unbelievably stupid if you care for those kids AT ALL.

Mixing them up (by Ugandan, on-the-ground standards) with "Christianity," as defined in THAT country, is definitely not a good thing--and no outcome of this can be good for anyone...least of all the kids being sent there, who are going to have NO IDEA of what they are getting themselves into.

This is, by my definition, evil.

Evil to the kids being sent over there. Some of those kids are going to be scarred for the rest of their lives...if they're not outright murdered.

And evil to the Ugandans who have no choice about the hell they live in every moment of their lives.

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Posted by: runtu ( )
Date: April 13, 2012 12:33PM

I wonder if the church will organize to support the proposed "kill the gays" bill. Already there is a rather despicable LDS woman named Sharon Slater (see her web site at who is allied with anti-gay Evangelical groups who are in Uganda and other countries teaching against the use of condoms. They've said they don't support killing gays, but they won't come out against imprisoning homosexuals.

Truly awful people. I agree that sending the missionaries into that environment is reckless and evil.

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Posted by: forbiddencokedrinker ( )
Date: April 13, 2012 01:44PM

In Africa, putting someone in prison is pretty much the same thing as killing them. Life sentences are measured in weeks, if not days.

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Posted by: Mia ( )
Date: April 13, 2012 12:42PM

My niece went to Uganda for two weeks. She came back and told us what a terrifying hell hole it is. she said she will never go back.

I would never ever send my son there, especially with the church. Mormons are so naive, they think everybody will automatically love and respect them. They have no clue!

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Posted by: Tupperwhere ( )
Date: April 13, 2012 06:09PM

+1 it pisses me off that they are willing to put people in danger to raise their numbers

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Posted by: Anon1234 ( )
Date: April 13, 2012 01:18PM

I see this as a sign of desparation for TSCC. They need the numbers to bolster their image, and they know that 3rd world countries bring impressive results.

By the way, Tommy $ Monsoon, how's that temple doing in Nigeria?

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Posted by: LOL ( )
Date: April 13, 2012 01:39PM

I wonder if DCP's new comment brigade all got emails this morning with orders to descend on this article? And how much coaching did they get on what to write? A lot of the "I also served an LDS mission..." commenters seem to be following a formula, like mentioning this article is pretty accurate and their mission was also hard but great, etc

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Posted by: OnceMore ( )
Date: April 13, 2012 01:48PM

Despite their semi-successful removal of mormons from the spotlight when it comes to anti-gay legislation, my bet is that mormon leaders still have close ties to:
1. anti-gay Catholics
2. NOM, National Organization for Marriage
3. the various state PACs that lobby against gay rights
4. leaders of The Family/C-Streeters that poured all that love, attention, and contracts for military gear onto the heads of Ugandans that think a kill-the-gays law is a good idea

Too bad we can't look behind the scenes on this one. My bet is that we would see anti-gay mormons surreptitiously supporting anti-gay groups in Uganda.

Uganda is like Evergreen on steroids.

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Posted by: cludgie ( )
Date: April 13, 2012 02:09PM

I left what I hope is a strong comment to try to offset all the cheerful, supportive ones. Other folks need to do the same.

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Posted by: OnceMore ( )
Date: April 13, 2012 02:17PM

All that praise from mormons for a "fair" article should clue the writer in to the fact that no objectivity was demonstrated.

For one thing, we have yet another parroting of the lie about the LDS Church having more than 14 million members, and being one of the fastest growing religious sects.

Journalists should get a clue about that 14 million figure. It is not just fudged, it's downright misleading.

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Posted by: just a thought ( )
Date: April 13, 2012 02:37PM

In addition to the political and social dangers, I wonder how much these kids understand about infectious diseases and the need for proper sanitation. Traveling in Africa is not for beginners. You can pick up some strange bugs.

Seems really irresponsible to send these kids to Uganda without adequate training in the practicalities of staying healthy (and alive) in a improvished country.

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Posted by: bert ( )
Date: April 13, 2012 02:45PM

Folks. Does the Mormon church EVER do anything that does not have Money involved, Ever. What is the one commodity that Africa has more than anywhere else? GOLD! Let me say it again GOLD! Now we all understand that Mormon Inc. has no problem with a little graft - Ask yourself why would one of the most racist organizations in the world push so hard in one of the poorest countries occupied buy black people?

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Posted by: hello ( )
Date: April 13, 2012 03:21PM

Is this part of the CIA/Americorp effort to colonize Uganda for its mineral riches? Send in the Mo mishies to help establish a greater American presence, improving their chances to steal with no restraint?

Mishies---they're only pawns in their game...

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Posted by: forbiddencokedrinker ( )
Date: April 13, 2012 04:24PM

"Hey everyone, we just converted all these wonderful poor people. Unfortunately, they are so poor they can't eat. We need you all to donate money, so we can build another mall. We will then use a very tiny portion of the profits of that mall to help feed these wonderful people."

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Posted by: Paulina Lassalete da cunha Gonçalves ( )
Date: April 17, 2012 03:31AM

is really unfortunate and hurts my soul, finds that in a so-called 1st world, there are some people such ignorant!
The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints is the Church of God on earth and our mission is to preach repentance. The day is coming when you will understand the truth of the restored Gospel. The fact that The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints use the Book of Mormon and the Bible as Holy Scriptures, will confuse and demolish what you are actually calling true!
I'm an African and I am proud to be called a member of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints. You call us the Mormons, but we are the Latter-day Saints. Anyway, the Missionaries "Mormons" have the great privilege to preach repentance for the world; and the people of Uganda is certainly grateful for the work of missionaries and the Church.
I pray for the missionaries to Preserve their route around the world.

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Posted by: Leah ( )
Date: April 17, 2012 04:37AM

1. The Book of Mormon is fiction and has already been proven false by DNA results.

No Hebrews settled in America. DNA shows that the American Indians came from Asia.

2. As an African, you do not have enough backgound knowledge to see through the lies the Mormon church tells you.

Study more and wise up. You have joined an oppressive cult.

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Posted by: Leah ( )
Date: April 17, 2012 04:51AM

Ugandans who join are exchanging the old Colonialism for Mormonism, which will turn out even worse for them in the long run.

I feel sorry for people who do not have access to correct information when joining Mormonism.
This cult will not help them, cannot save them, and will exploit them further.

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Posted by: ozpoof ( )
Date: April 13, 2012 02:47PM

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Posted by: BeenThereDunnThatExMo ( )
Date: April 13, 2012 03:10PM

It is totally irresponsible for LDS Inc to have Missionaries in Uganda with its history of oftentimes sudden political unrest.

LDS Inc should have a life insurance policy on every single one of those kids...and/or allow the parents to have one on their kids.

And here's the dumbest line from the article...

“It’s a lot harder to teach the people in Europe than the people in Africa,” adds Elder Lee, Elder Davis’s companion. “It’s Africa’s time.”

(Geez Elder ya think? I wonder why...could it be that many Ugandans don't have fingertip access to info about your scam like many more Europeans do?)

And here's another telling phrase about Mormon elitism and misogyny...

"Kampala is full of temptations. Near an Ethiopian restaurant popular with the missionaries, pop music blares outside, marijuana is sold down the road, and prostitutes solicit. Several young missionaries were caught fraternizing with women and sent home, the missionaries say."

(Oh yeah...i forgot...don't ever fraternize or approach prostitutes of the female persuasion about your pseudo-religious message as women are the downfall of mankind don'tcha know!)

Just a another sickening LDS Inc softball promotional piece about the blight of Mormonism fleecing and otherwise taking advantage of the poor and uneducated upon the face of the earth!

Or so it seems to me...

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Posted by: sayhitokolob4me ( )
Date: April 13, 2012 03:20PM

Apparently the TBMs loved the article, they have filled the comment section with praise and personal testimony to it's truthfulness.

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Posted by: runtu ( )
Date: April 13, 2012 03:54PM

Here's what I wrote on the New York Times website (hopefully they'll approve it):

It's disheartening that this article accepts the LDS church's description of missionary life without asking about the reality of the experience, such as the relentless pressure to produce baptisms and the use of guilt and shame to exact obedience.

One-third of the Mormons in Uganda joined in the last year, but because missions are focused on numbers, most of those people do not attend Mormon church meetings, and many would be surprised to find out they belong to the church. The image the church likes to project is of earnest young men and women trying to change lives, and that's how it started for most of us. But we soon learned that it was about baptisms: baptisms meant success and led to praise and promotion, but those who didn't baptize were failures. Some missionaries (often encouraged by leaders) used manipulative and abusive practices to baptize as many people as possible. From the "baseball baptisms" of the 1960s to the "investigator extraction program" of the 1980s, young people were put on the records of the church without actually knowing much if anything about Mormonism.

I was talking with a friend of mine, a fellow former Mormon missionary, and it occurred to us that the message of Mormonism and the desire to help people live better lives were not integral to what we did as missionaries. We were told to baptize people at all costs. I wish the author had dug a little deeper in the article. The real story of missionary life deserves to be told. This isn't it.

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Posted by: aaanonaaa ( )
Date: April 13, 2012 04:04PM

I think this is a very good, measured response to the article and, hopefully, it will be approved.

Thank you for doing this.

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Posted by: runtu ( )
Date: April 13, 2012 04:25PM

They approved it. Can't wait for the attacks from outraged Mormons to start. Everyone who has been on a mission knows that it's about numbers and always has been, but you can't admit that, especially not a to a reporter.

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Posted by: freeman ( )
Date: April 13, 2012 04:32PM

"As one of the fastest-growing religions in the United States, with 14 million followers"

This always pisses me off. 14 million baptised persons, their under 8 years old offspring, and with the assumption that they are still alive if they are not yet 110 years old *DOES NOT* imply "14 million followers"!

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Posted by: cludgie ( )
Date: April 13, 2012 05:54PM

It took hours for my comment to appear, but I tried to fix that "14 million" thing a bit. It always really pisses me off, too. Royally:

I disagree with the number of enthusiastic Mormons who have commented here. The article, while upbeat, is poorly researched and blandly written. Kron has not done his homework regarding the Mormon church and is practicing journalistic laziness by just passing on information that Mormons feed him without actually researching the truth.

Mormonism, for example, is hardly among the fastest growing religions, and all it takes is simple math and a click or two of the mouse to find this out. Adventists alone, for example, have grown significantly faster and with better retention rates than Mormons. And Kron should point out that Mormons lose 60% of what they gain. Of 14 million members on record, only 4.5 million attend and only 1.6 to 1.75 million pay tithing and go to the temple.

I am a former Mormon who has worked extensively abroad for the US government and closely with several LDS mission presidents and senior missionaries. My experience in DR Congo taught me that it's a simple task to convert Africans to Mormonism because of Africans' inherent superstitiousness. Like all Mormon "conversions," it's easy come, easy go like anywhere else.

And Mormons never ask for money? Really? That's all Mormons ever do. You can't even attend an LDS wedding without paying your dues, and Mormon salvation is by indulgence only. In Africa they operate no orphanages, no schools, no hospitals, unlike the other various churches. Mormons actually have precious little to offer.

(I used "for example" a bit too much. Sorry. I was writing so fast because I was at work.)

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Posted by: anagrammy ( )
Date: April 13, 2012 06:34PM

Mormons sell the privilege of attending your own children's weddings.

How crassly greedy is that?


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Posted by: LOL ( )
Date: April 15, 2012 09:18AM

Morgbots have filled the comment section with syrupy sweetness.

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