What is your take on it? Many of the locals that have lived there a long time are not very happy with how the mormons just swept in and have set up the town as "mormon disneyland." While the church started the city, they kind of left shortly after leaving the real heritage and history of the city to others.

Nauvoo ? The city that has had four different names ?

Yes...hated it...but then again that was when the "temple" open house was going on...crazy crowds, rude people, etc...

I went in 1981. I was TBM at the time and I was very wowed by it. I would imagine it's changed since then though.

I was there about 15 years ago. I thought it was interesting, but that was about it. The temple wasn't built yet, and a lot of buildings were in the process of being restored.

We talked to a few of the locals. My impression was that they were thrilled to have the church come in and buy up land and buildings that were in disrepair. The church was paying people for buildings that nobody else would want.The locals were looking forward to making money on the tourist trade that would be coming their way. Nauvoo wasn't exactly a thriving metropolis.

I'm sure there were probably some exceptions that didn't like the whole thing. But my overall impression was that most were fine with it.

It was before the temple was rebuilt. Nauvoo was really a two horse town. I haven't been back since, but I thought it was nice along the river.

archaeologymatters Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> What is your take on it? Many of the locals that
> have lived there a long time are not very happy
> with how the mormons just swept in and have set up
> the town as "mormon disneyland." While the church
> started the city, they kind of left shortly after
> leaving the real heritage and history of the city
> to others.

I've been there twice -- once before the Mormons came back
to re-build their temple, and again after it was constructed.

The place gives me the creeps. I swear that I could hear the
screams of "apostates" taken out into the Mississipi for a
"final" midnight dunking, after their badmouthing Joe Smith.

My ancestors were there -- helped build the place -- I feel
a familial sense of guilt about that, and about the whole
latter days gathering of Israel scam.

UD

Went in 2002. It isn't really Disney land. Think of the non-ride parts of pioneer village at Lagoon (Utah reference) or Knots Berry Farm type places, only less sophisticated and run by missionaries.

It's all about propaganda and ownership over what is said about the history of the place.

Personally, I would think the locals wouldn't mind. It's tourism. It's dollars for them. How is it any different than The Holy Land Experience in Orlando? A place built on myths purported to be true.

I visited as a pre-teen and not especially questioning junior member sometime in the early 70s as a sidetrip on the way to one of my father's frequent trips for FAA training courses in OKC.

I thought Hannibal, MO (Mark Twain Disneytown) was a lot more commercial back then, but I can only imagine what both places have become in the intervening years, given how money is everything, or at least has been since that time.

At the time it seemed more like a museum town to me (the parts that were dedicated to LDS history) than a theme park, but then again, I was a big fan of museums in my childhood. (Yes, I know I'm really weird that way).

It was miserably hot and humid. And boring. That's about all I remember from my family trip there as a teenager.

Ah... Nauvoo... the memories.

When I was a kid, we made several pilgrimages to see the sights, the pageant, etc. We usually camped in a local camp ground, for some reason there wasn't really hotel space there for years, camping was the "best" option, though I've heard that's changed.

As an adult, I went a couple of times with my sister's family (they are out now too)... (still camping, why did no one put a hotel in there for so many years???).

We would always get a "prairie diamond" (a nail bent into the shape of a ring), cookies from the bakery, and of coarse a brick from the brick maker (I have both un-fired and fired bricks! Yay me!). We also got some fudge from the candy maker in town, but that wasn't a "mormon" stop and we never sampled the local wineries... in fact I never realized there was a thriving grape/wine industry in the town until we stopped there during a "grape fest".

I even proposed to my wife in the temple grounds before the "rebuilt" the temple. We were there with a single adult group and I finally got to go on a walk alone with my wife to be in the evening. I proposed, she said yes, and we talked for a long time in the dug out area where the temple had once stood. Apparently, security wasn't a concern because no one walked though the grounds before they locked up and we ended up having to climb the fence, just when a cop drove by, though they didn't even slow down...

Later, while I was just inactive, but not yet really questioning, my parents dragged us to the Temple open house, it was nice, but very busy.

So, I have a lot of memories of Nauvoo, most of them good. Would I go back? Not on your life, not knowing what I know now. If they could separate the church from the historical education, it could be an interesting place, but that'll never happen. For all it's faults, Nauvoo does have it's historical significance, it was larger than Chicago at it's peak and was the starting point for a large group of people headed west... But, it's too tied up in the church to be worth it, and I'd rather go to Williamsburg (sp?).

The reason there were no hotels, is because nobody but a few mormons had any reason to go there. Nothing there. Same with Palmyra.

The missionaries always told us that these places never thrived because the church had put a curse on them. They lifted the curses when they started to develop them into mormon tourist traps. How convenient. I wonder if they still tell the curse stories.

The Mormons used to be big on putting curses on people and places. Now, they are the curse.

I always love the "curse" line... Isn't that a lovely way to show that charity and other cheek they always talk about? We have to leave? Well, we'll show you! Curses on your house!

That reminds me, when I was in early high school we moved to Arkansas, we always thought it was a little backwards there and several members of our ward pointed out that the state was cursed due to the martyrdom of Parly P. Pratt, or some other nonsense.

I was raised in the county. Spent a lot more time in Warsaw than Nauvoo. No curse. Just a nice little town.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 04/16/2012 03:59PM by me.

"The missionaries always told us that these places never thrived because the church had put a curse on them. They lifted the curses when they started to develop them into mormon tourist traps. How convenient. I wonder if they still tell the curse stories."

WTF??? Mormons back then or mormons nowadays putting "curses" on people and businesses ONLY because these are nonmormon???

Missionaries are telling people this meaning the missionaries have the most current doctrinal and historical info about mormonism???

http://packham.n4m.org/travelog.htm "Visiting the Sacred Sites of Mormonism"

It also includes my report on the 2001 Exmormon conference in Salt Lake City, and a stunning personal revelation from God.

I enjoyed re-reading your trip log... I remember going though Carthage when I was younger, long before the church was even thinking about rebuilding the temple. They didn't have the visitor's center or movie, just the grounds and a tour at the time.

I vaguely remember them mentioning the guns that were smuggled in, though I don't remember them talking about if J. Smith used them. Though they did mention that someone shot around the door.

I do distinctly remember them talking about how when J.S. called out the window "My lord, My God" that it wasn't a prayer, but a Masonic call for help, but the evil Mason's below wouldn't help... which is why the church wanted nothing to do with the Mason's today. Little did I know, but as a child I was given information into the secret inner workings of the church when it started, though even then it was twisted.

It's interesting to hear how things have changed and what the church does to cover it's tracks and keep it's history pure.

Praise Richard and his miraculous sign! Prepare!

Wow.. this is kind of like following the gourd...(a "Life of Brian" reference).

Thanks Richard, for this and all your other contributions. :-)

It is well worth the time to go to the Community of Christ visitor center there. We had a private tour with a great young guy who was not pushy, but helpful and knowledgeable. They own some of the "choice" sites, including the Smith graves.

Then we went to the Disneyl--er Mormon side. Yes, creepy. It was a cold rainy day and the Visitor's Center was not fun but was somewhat warm and dry. We decided to visit the Brigham Young home and were trapped there while a Stepford Mo wife gave us her testimony.

I enjoyed the cemetery. My 3nd great-grandfather and possibly some 2nd great granduncles and aunts are buried there. The site of his grave is unknown but they did have his name on the list. I think all of them died from malaria.

We walked around the temple and took photos, stayed away from guides. Rode past Carthage too, but I got a really creepy feeling there--two busloads of TBM tourists had just shown up so we skipped it.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 04/16/2012 03:30PM by Phantom Shadow.

Performed there with a church-based organization similar to the Young Ambassadors - we were there in 1980. Didn't like it then and I'm sure my opinion wouldn't change now. I thought it was boring, too church-y, and there really was nothing to keep anyone's attention unless you're TBM and looking for something to be inspired by. Ugh.

Her name was not Smith when she died, it was still Bidamon. Weird.

I'm still trying to figure the significance (and accuracy) of 'being larger than Chicago at the time'

oh yeah, I Forgot. It's all about numbers.
excuse me, I got it now.

I stand corrected, per Wikipedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_Nauvoo,_Illinois):

"Nauvoo's population peaked at about this time in 1845; it may have had as many as 12,000 inhabitants (and several nearly as large suburbs) — rivaling Chicago, whose 1845 population was about 15,000."

So it was never larger than Chicago... I was either told wrong (very possible) or am remembering church history wrong (also very possible).

As for it's significance, that is obviously debatable. Maybe more of a historical footnote?

I think it's interesting for a couple of reasons:

1) A bit of American history. Old buildings with stories behind them, albeit white washed stories. Interesting to see how people lived back then. The old gun shop is cool and many people probably don't know Browning guns started there. And the hoop rolling in the park is a blast.

2) Interesting to see how the church hides the real history, telling a fake story. The town has a story about why Smith got shot, but the church doesn't tell you that it was because he trashed a guys printing press for revealing Smith's adultery.

3) Interesting to see the differences between the Utah sect and the Nauvoo sect.

They tried so hard to sensationalize the "hardhips" early Mormons endured ...because we all know how hard life is when you are defrauding your neighbors, bullying the locals, porking every female in sight, trying to figure out how to cheat the Indians of their reservation land, shutting down newspapers, having yourself coronated King of the World or whatever, etc., etc.

Yeah, life was so rough for them. ***YAWN***

I'm sure nothing has changed.

did you know that the #1 tourist attraction for utahns is nauvoo but the 2nd is vegas. i've never gone to nauvoo but i have gone to vegas!

I went there on some church-organized youth trip (a long road trip on a bus). I was, at the time, pretty young and impressionable; it actually inspired me to take the faith quite seriously.

What, perhaps, they didn't quite count on, was my insistence on being "intellectually honest" with myself. I'll let the rest of you guess what ultimately came out of it...

its hot, humid and really boring.

I went as a young very TBM adult in the 90s with other family members, it inspired me to be in the actual places I had read and studied about in seminary, but after a couple days you've been there done that and really it's time to move on to something more fun..the best part I thought was the play/musical by the missionaries, and I thought the Manti Pageant was better..

PS: I've been to Vegas more times than I've been to Nauvoo.

Yeah, but it was back in 1977. At the time, it was interesting.

I've been there. Was not impressed, but then again, I don't like tourist traps.

My husband and I have been there twice: once in the 1980s, and then in June of 2002 for one of the dedicatory sessions.


Yes, my husband and I were also one of the privileged few who was able to obtain tickets for one of the dedicatory sessions! Thanks to a bishop who had a brother who lived in the Nauvoo stake.


The best part of the 2002 trip was the Mormon Tabernacle Choir concert on temple hill that Saturday at sunset. They were filming for the TV show Music and the Spoken Word.


I still love the music of the Mormon Tabernacle Choir. Living in the mission field, it is the one and only time I have ever heard them in person.


My husband and I treasure that concert, though we don't have much use for the temple anymore.