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Posted by: Smokey ( )
Date: December 03, 2010 12:19AM

Here it is folks, my "list". Severity is on a scale of 1-10 with 10 being severe enough to kill my testimony independently of any other issue.

1. First Vision (severity 10): The first vision strongly appears to be a product of evolved story telling. There are at least 7 very different versions of the first vision; particularly troublesome is that fact that the version in Joseph's own hand writing is nothing like the official version we use today regarding critical factors that the Church is built on. In that version, Joseph was not visited by two beings, only “The Lord”. There is no mention of setting up a new church. The stated purpose of the prayer is to seek forgiveness for his sins rather than identify which church is true. Gordon B. Hinckley said that it must either be all true or all false. What choice does that leave someone who has done even the smallest amount of homework on the issue? To such a person, there can be no question that it is definitely not ALL true. At the very least, what church members were taught was true at one time was no longer true just a few years later as church leaders evolved the story into something far different than the humble personal forgiveness story it began as. Incidentally, these types of personal forgiveness experiences with the Lord were quite common in early 19th century New England.

2. Book of Abraham (severity 10): Joseph Smith's translation of the scrolls of the Book of Abraham has been undisputedly and repeatedly proven to NOT BE what the scrolls actually say by multiple independent experts who all agree on what the scrolls DO say (they are part of a funeral text for a man named Horris). Apologists argue that Joseph may have been using the scrolls to “channel” an unrelated revelation for the Book of Abraham. This claim is contrary to what Joseph said he was doing. He said he was translating the literal writing of the very prophet Abraham (written in his own hand). Not only does the translation not match up, the actual scrolls are 700-1500 years too recent to have been written by Abraham. Moreover, the textual content of the Book of Abraham is easily contradicted by known history and cultural understanding of the peoples supposedly referenced therein. Even more troublesome is that the contents are clearly based on 19th century Eurocentric ideology (the erroneous claim in facsimile 3 that the black God Anubis is a slave of the Prince, for instance). Exercising the principles of Occam’s Razor yields an argument too powerful to be ignored concerning the fact that the Book of Mormon and the Book of Abraham were purportedly translated from Egyptian based languages prior to the discovery of the Rosetta stone (before anyone in the modern world had any knowledge of how to translate Egyptian hieroglyphics).

3. Book of Mormon (severity 10): Contrary to the claims of Elder Holland , there is a huge amount of very strong evidence that the Book of Mormon is not an actual historical document. Adding to this problem is the absence of evidence that absolutely should exist supporting it. Contrary to Mormon lore and the LDS tourism industry, there is NO credible evidence that any of the peoples in the Book of Mormon ever existed. There is NO non-LDS scientist who believes that they existed. The book is filled with textual and historical anachronisms that cannot be explained. Anachronisms are a primary indicator that historical experts look for to indicate that a given document is a forgery. A couple of examples: 1) The Book of Mormon quotes huge sections of the King James Bible word for word. Joseph Smith’s translation of these sections also carries forth known errors where the King James translators missed the actual meaning of the Greek texts from which they were translating. Not only is it improbable that Early American Prophets would have written in such a way that it translated EXACTLY as the King James version (remember that the greek documents did not exist yet, so they were not quoting from those), if the translation was a “tight” translation as claimed, Joseph’s translation should have avoided making the same errors. For the best place to start on this problem, read the works of BH Roberts, an early 20th century General Authority. His very relevant questions remain unanswered almost 100 years later. Apologists say “God is testing our faith”. I ask why he did not need to do this with the evidence of the civilizations in the Bible? Moreover, why would God make his gospel so incredibly hard to believe? Why would any loving parent do that with the only way back to them?

4. Temple (severity 8): The temple rituals, signs, etc that are taught as being only available in the temple and critical for entry into the kingdom of God are identical to those of 19th century masons. Contrary to apologetic arguments, there is no evidence that they existed prior to the existence of the masons. Moreover, anyone can Google or go the library and get this information, so the Holy Spirit of promise will be working overtime to determine if someone actually went through the temple or if they got the signs from another source. If an angel can tell if you are unworthy, why can't that same angel tell if you are actually a good person instead of resorting to clandestine signs and symbols that can be easily pilfered from multiple sources? Surely an omnipotent God would have created a verification process that accounted for technological advancement. I find it impossible to deny that the whole idea is representative of the 19th century worldview.

5. Changing Scripture (severity 10): Mormon scripture has been changed over time to reflect changing doctrine and the leadership path of Joseph Smith. The changes are easily verified and very significant with regard to the evolution of the concept of the Godhead, Josephs role in the church, etc. They are far from limited to expected editing. This is inexplicable given the manner in which participants claimed it was translated (what scholars call a “tight” translation; being word for word or phrase for phrase, not idea for idea).

6. Spirit As Exclusive Witness (severity 7): The assumption that Mormons' spiritual affirmations of the truthfulness of their religion are somehow more relevant, valuable and "true" than those experienced by believers of other faiths (Holy Ghost vs Light of Christ) is completely unrealistic and unsupportable by any evidence.

7. Mormonism Not In Book of Mormon (severity 10): Not a single one of the unique teachings and practices of modern Mormonism are contained in the "Most complete Book on Earth"; the Book of Mormon. Other than the nature of the Godhead (which was not in the original), the doctrine contained in the Book of Mormon is arguably indistinguishable from that of other protestant faiths today. Clearly, Mormonism is an evolved faith, rather than a revealed one.

8. Revealed Truth Already Revealed (severity 4): Most of the early unique principles of Mormonism were not unique at all. Rather, they were common (and often controversial) ideas readily found in either the literature or cultural/religious movements of the early 19th century New England (easily verified examples being the belief that Native Americans came from Jerusalem, polygamy, United Order, multi-tiered Celestial glories, avoiding Hot Drinks and Alcohol, etc). Mormonism just collected them under a single belief system.

9. Mormonism Tied to Proven Falsehoods (severity 9): The truthfulness of Mormonism is irrevocably tied to the truthfulness of many Old Testament claims that have been disproven by science (global flood, tower of Babel, single author of Isaiah, Earth being 7,000 years old, and maybe even the exodus story). There are multiple revelations made by early prophets that require that these things be true in order for the revelations to be valid (the Garden of Eden being in Missouri, for instance).

10. Brigham Young Taught Saints To Worship Wrong God (severity 10): The prophet of God (the Person who will never lead us astray) COMPLETELY missed the Identify of God himself for a period of at least 40 years. He taught that God the Father was Adam (a teaching vehemently rejected by today’s leaders who are also saying that they will never lead us astray).

11. New Prophets Are More “True” Than Old Prophets (severity 10): Modern prophets repeatedly deny and minimize the clear teachings of previous prophets (the same ones who will never lead us astray). Obvious and troublesome examples are, of course, easily available. This is problematic because it means that what is true today is not guaranteed to be true in the future. This creates a dilemma regarding our obedience to current leaders (which we are taught again and again is not optional). We are promised that our leaders will never lead us astray and morally bound to follow them, but they can and have been clearly and grossly wrong about some very important things.

12. Native Americans Are Asian, Not Jewish (severity 8): The people that the Church has always claimed to be the Lamanites have been proven to have no genetic or cultural links to the old-world whatsoever: they are from Asia. Although apologists continue to question scientific findings that the Native Americans are not from the Old World, the Church itself is now claiming to not know who the Lamanites are; even though D&C 54 clearly shows that Jesus thought they were in Missouri and the lands to the west 200 years ago.

13. Theology Evolution Contradicts First Vision (severity 10): The Mormon understanding of the Godhead (that Jesus and the Father are two separate beings) is a product of easily documented (by referencing early versions of scripture and teachings) theological evolution that occurred long after the First Vision. This misunderstanding seems impossible if the first vision happened as we are taught that it did.

14. Plates Taken Back By Angel But Scrolls Weren’t (severity 7): There is significant inconsistency in the manner with which God treats physical evidence of the Mormon's claims. The gold plates were immediately taken back to heaven, but the scrolls for the Book of Abraham and the mummy they arrived with experienced no such miraculous transcendence to heaven. They stayed just where they were placed like normal objects. There is evidence that Lucy Smith charged admission to see the mummy. Why would God take the plates back but allow the mummy and scrolls to remain on earth and become a side-show?

15. Where Is Christ In All This? (severity 8): The teachings and practices of modern Mormonism have very little in common with the teachings of Jesus Christ in the New Testament. The church stands as intermediary between the member and Christ as well as the judge of a person’s righteousness. This is completely unbiblical. Most sacrament meetings reference Joseph Smith more than Christ. In the New Testament, the “church” was not an all-powerful organization with judiciary and disciplinary powers, but a body of believers.

16. Focus Has Moved From Agency To Obedience (severity 8): dfsgg

17. The True Church Hides The Truth About Itself: The Mormon approach of preventing/discouraging access to materials required to make the most informed decisions regarding belief in the faith is contradictory to the basic requirements for free agency.

18. Blacks & The Priesthood: The doctrine of the “Seed of Cain” and the curse of the Blacks as described in the Book of Mormon and many other Mormon documents/speeches is incompatible with the 2nd article of faith. Joseph Smith ordained at least 1 black man which contradicts Brigham Young’s claims of God’s will regarding the black man. Moreover, I find it too convenient that the policy (what the church calls it vs a revelation) was changed in 1978. Occam’s Razor demands some consideration with this issue. I find it repulsive that General Authority Alexander Morrison claimed “"How grateful I am that The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints has from its beginnings stood strongly against racism in any of its malignant manifestations." This is a clear example of history being slowly and unethically re-written by popular lore. For a far more truthful understanding of the history of the Church’s teachings regarding the black man, refer to just about ANY of Brigham Young’s teachings. Gordon B. Hinckley’s claim of “that’s all behind us” is hardly sufficient explanation for such a damaging policy that is clearly not of divine origin.

19. Lack of Constancy in Scriptures/Doctrine (severity 10): There is overwhelming inconsistency in Mormon Doctrine and scriptures: For instance, Joseph Smith ordained at least 1 black man to the priesthood yet Brigham Young claimed that God did not intend for them to have the priesthood in this life. The Book of Mormon is pretty clear about how God feels about Polygamy but the D&C justifies it. The Book of Mormon (completely throughout in the original) indicates that God and Jesus are the same being, but doctrine and later scriptures teach otherwise. If the first vision had occurred, this would never have been in question.

20. Immediately after the Book of Mormon was completed, Joseph Smith tried and failed to sell the copyright to God's brand new scripture in Canada. He later claimed that the revelation came from the Devil. Most doubters cite this as an example of a false prophet but I think the real question is why would Joseph Smith ever try to sell God’s scripture?

21. With the exception of the controversial civil war prophesy, every single clear prophesy made by the prophets of this generation has failed to come true. Defenders cite the Proclamation on the Family as the sole example of a modern prophecy. This is not accurate as it is a position, not a prophecy. Moreover, when the Church recently altered Boyd K Packers Fall 2010 talk for the printed edition, it was clearly demoted from being a revelation to merely a “guide”. Elder Packer called it a revelation, but the church corrected him in the printed version.

22. The church's longstanding position that the morality of the world is in an ever-increasing state of decline is not supported by the data, almost regardless of how you define "morality". Most social scientists would argue that we humans (as a whole) are treating each other with more charity today than at any other time in history. Is this not the 2nd greatest commandment?

23. Joseph Smith had a court documented history of successfully convincing others that he could find amazing treasures in the earth (none of which he actually ever produced except for the Gold Plates). He was convicted of and fined for fraud by Glass-Looking in Bainbridge NY in 1826. This is problematic because the Book of Mormon was translated by the Prophet sticking his seer stone (that he found in a well) in his hat and then sticking his face in the hat to read the stone (this fact is not questionable, it is accepted in both apologetic and critical circles). This means that the Golden Plates were not even required for the translation process.

24. The church has created a well established and easily verified practice of hiding the full truth from both the public and its members. Multiple examples can be found in current instruction manuals and press releases; some as recent as Summer 2010. Apostles have gone as far as to clearly state their opinions that it is not their job to tell the whole story, but rather to lead people to faith. Some of the most blatant of these lies were made to the government regarding polygamy. “Lying for the Lord” is another example of moral relativism: something the modern church espouses but Christ clearly abhorred. The Gospel Essentials manual makes it clear that even a half-truth or sometimes even silence is every bit as dishonest as a lie. Half-truths are something the Church utilizes quite often (examples are immediately available). Is it not reasonable for one to expect their church leaders to act within the same moral guidelines that the leadership expects of its members?

25. D&C 132 is particularly problematic as a divine justification for Plural Marriage. From an unbiased perspective, the reasoning and language appears strongly to be the work of someone trying to justify an extremely unpopular position. The very examples that Joseph uses to justify plural marriage in verses 1 and 38-39 are clearly derided by King Benjamin in the Book of Mormon (a discrepancy that is easily explainable using the principles of Occam ’s razor). Moreover, although the scripture clearly claims that Emma will be destroyed if she does not accept plural marriage, she lived to an old age and Joseph died young (there is no reliable evidence that she ever accepted the practice). Lastly, the set of rules set forth in verses 61-63 are completely violated by Joseph Smith in his polyandrous marriages with the wives of 11 other living members of the church. Verse 63 is clear in classifying this behavior as adulterous.

26. It makes no sense for the all knowing-all powerful Lord to create a new dispensation, and then immediately mar it forever with the stink of polygamy/polyandry; a practice that not only clearly failed to achieve its stated goals, but does nothing but hurt testimonies, and has created multiple sub-cultures that still exist today wherein women and children are impoverished and marginalized. The scriptural claim that Polygamy was to raise up a righteous seed unto the Lord makes no numerical sense. No verified child was born to JS under polygamy (although there is evidence that the relationships were sexual). Men outnumbered women in early Mormon culture: just as many righteous children could have been born to those women in normal families without the well-documented suffering experienced by women and children in polygamous families. Could this possibly be the fruit of Christ’s Gospel?

27. Joseph Smith claimed that God wanted him to secretly (unknown in most cases to not only to Emma but also to the existing husband) marry his friends’ wives. And he did so; at least 11 times (after sending many of their husbands on missions). There is strong evidence that the relationships were sexual. This is easily verified using the Church’s own genealogical website.

28. There is strong evidence that Joseph Smith emotionally manipulated many of his wives to get them to marry him. There is strong evidence Joseph Smith told a 14 year old that her entire family would be exalted if she agreed to marry him. There is strong evidence that he manipulated another teenage girl into marrying him by telling her that the Lord would violently destroy him if she did not agree to marry him within 24 hours (her family was sent out of town at the time). These girls were told to tell no-one of the proposition because it was so sacred (thereby precluding their opportunity to seek counsel). For a particularly heart-breaking example, research the story of Zina Hunnington Jacobs. It is painful for me to do so, but I have no choice but to admit that this pattern is almost identical to that of almost all cult leaders in recruiting sexual favors from their followers. Why in the world would God make his true church look just like any other cult in this regard?

29. Following the example of the Catholic Church, the Mormon church is not legally organized as a church at all, but rather as a corporation (a corporate Sole, to be specific) with significant holdings, and presidents rather than prophets. This occurred in 1918 as part of a legal battle to avoid losing its holdings as punishment for failing to follow the law regarding polygamy (a violation of the 12th article of faith, incidentally). There are significant tax exempt benefits of this versus a 501c3; chiefly, that there is almost no IRS scrutiny for continued tax exempt status. Christ said that where your treasure is, there your heart is also. I find it extremely problematic that the temple recommend questions do not assess the charitable nature of the candidate (the 2nd greatest commandment), but do assess his status as a tithe payer. Have you ever heard of someone not being able to attend their daughter’s wedding due to not being charitable enough? It is painfully clear which is more important to the church (charitable person vs tithe payer).

30. Despite all of its boasting, actual charitable contributions made by the church almost certainly equate to less than 1% of its annual tithing revenue alone (roughly $5 per member per year over the past 20 years). This estimate is based on the best numbers available since the Church does not make its accounting available for review by anyone other than an in-house “independent” auditor (a seriously troublesome ethical issue, if not a truthfulness issue). This number is quite low compared to the charitable contributions of most other churches: which are also considered to be terribly wasteful as financial vehicles for philanthropy.

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Posted by: Uncle Dale ( )
Date: December 03, 2010 12:37AM

31. Mormonism's basic message is is founded upon the absurdity
of perfectionism --- Nephi obeys all of the commandments ---
Alma the younger obeys all the commandments after his conversion

Entire cities and nations are either "righteous" or "wicked,"
with no place in between for the reality of human nature.

Mainstream Christianity long ago realized that perfectionism
was an impossibility, and that even small, occasional lapses
are enough to merit damnation under the biblical religion. So
mainstream Christianity found an "escape clause" in the precept
of Divine forgiveness, and justification by grace through faith

But the modern critic of Mormonism need not resort to the
doctrines of Christianity or of Judaism, to comprehend that
Mormonism places its adherents in an impossible position,
in demanding their progressing to perfection.

It is an unrealistic, personhood-destroying doctrine, making
members either hypocrites or guilt-ridden slaves.

The apologists will counter such criticism with smooth talk
about how members actually are saved by grace, after having
all they can do to try and be perfectly obedient --- but
those of us who have seen the religion up close know what
it means to face the dilemma of expected perfection; of an
expected continual companionship of the Holy Ghost from
the time of baptism onward.

Expectations of perfectionism always corrupt religions and
make them pernicious -- and Mormonism is a shining example.

UD

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Posted by: Apatheist ( )
Date: December 03, 2010 01:07AM

After seeing some discussion about lists on other threads, I was curious to see some. Thank you for posting.

BTW, what does "dfsgg" (#16) mean? I've seen it before, but I don't know what it is.

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