I've read several times on RfM that many GAs are Businessmen and Lawyers. Is it possible to find somewhere the GAs' fields of learning and working?
Thanks

In the church news they they list the new mission presidents and stake presidents. They always list what they did. In order, it went:

1. Doctor/Lawyer
2. Business executive/owner
3. Church employee

You can find out about the fab 15 on wikopedia.

They are the best at manipulating other people. It really is that simple.

So how far up the food chain of the church would a lowly carpenter like Jesus make it these days?

The existing and potential prophets, revelators and seers:

(Spot a running theme in who god chooses to head his church)

Thomas S. Monson President First Presidency
Master of business administration degree from Brigham Young University

Henry B. Eyring First Counselor, First Presidency
Master of Business Administration and Doctor of Business Administration degrees from Harvard University

Dieter F. Uchtdorf Second Counselor, First Presidency
Studied Business administration, Cologne, Germany.

Elder L. Tom Perry Quorum of the Twelve Apostles
B.S. degree in finance from Utah State University, Vice president and treasurer in companies located in Idaho, California, New York, and Massachusetts

Elder Quentin L. Cook Quorum of the Twelve Apostles
Doctor of Jurisprudence from Stanford University

Elder D. Todd Christofferson Quorum of the Twelve Apostles
General counsel of NationsBank Bank of America North Carolina. Senior vice president Commerce Union Bank of Tennessee

Elder Neil L. Andersen Quorum of the Twelve Apostles
masters of business administration from Harvard University

Elder Robert D. Hales Quorum of the Twelve Apostles
Master of business administration degree from Harvard

Elder M. Russell Ballard Quorum of the Twelve Apostles
Elder Ballard interests in investment businesses

Elder Dallin H. Oaks Quorum of the Twelve Apostles
Graduate The University of Chicago Law School

Elder David A. Bednar Quorum of the Twelve Apostles
Professor of business management at Texas Tech University and at the University of Arkansas


--- Finally non financial:

Elder Jeffrey R. Holland Quorum of the Twelve Apostles
Bachelor and master degrees in English and religious education

Elder Richard G. Scott Quorum of the Twelve Apostles
Private consultant for nuclear power companies

Elder Russell M. Nelson Quorum of the Twelve Apostles
Surgeon

They have to have the token science guys to lend credibility to it all.

Anyway, it is obvious Mormonism is just one giant MLM scam.

Elder Nelson just mocked the big bang theory last GC without citing any evidence why or why not. He just used the common (and fallacious) clockmaker analogy (some form of would an explosion cause a clock to form).

That's not science.

If I may say (I welcome any doctors out there who can refute me), I'm a physician assistant...which I did because I was a flop getting into biotech research so I took the dumber path. Now I work very closely with doctors, virtually doing much of what they do. I've noticed, distinctly, that ALOT of doctors became doctors for social reasons, and that SOME of them are not scientific thinkers at all. They're into the social side of it, whether that's humanitarian service, some personal interest like they or a loved one had a disease or injury as a kid, or even just flat out prestige and money in some cases. I've worked with doctors who are born-again christians, mormons, non-denom, or whatever, but who expressed their religious motivations in some way.
In particular, at least two or three of them expressed that they don't accept, or have misgivings about evolution. In the words of Richard Dawkins "that's an educational disgrace".
Some doctors tend to decide early, some still in high school or early college, and they happen to be good students. So they plow through their bachelors basically just to get all the prerequistes out of the way without any intrinsic interest in their major...they do some medically related volunteer work, and they get good grades and score well enough on the MCAT, then they apply to a dozen medical schools. Voila. Off they go to become doctors without any further substantial philosophically scientific education...it's all clinical from there. A minority of doctors in my experience are actually philosophically scientific...most are motivated by their social philosophy. Medicine is subscientific I think, because its discoveries are not for discovery's sake, but rather for a cure's sake (which I'm not knockin...but in that sense it's also like scientific applications in warfare, engineering, mineral extraction, energy, transporation, communications, etc., etc...all of them use science but are only secondarily scientific in themselves. That is, they don't care about science intrinsically like a science teacher does...it's not an academic interest, it's an "industry" interest).

So, in that sense, Scott's scientific interest was industrial as well, and there are ZERO academic scientists on the LDS corporate board. Indeed, they have explicitly expressed mistrust of academicians (euphamized as "intellectuals") as a threat to the church. Hmmm...wonder why that is, because academically science is expressly the search for truth. Industrial applications of science ultimately don't care about the truth universally, and in fact an industrialist's loyalty is not to the truth at all, but to the organization. That's why these guys are right at home as "apostles" in the LDS church, where it's wrong to criticize (ie test, question, dissect, analyze) the leaders of the church even if the criticism is true! That's the antithesis of science!



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 04/25/2012 01:53PM by amos2.

I'm trying to process how Holland-dodo could lie in response to questions with a straight face. As a scholar of religious studies, surely he is incredibly well versed in ldsinc. doctrine, doctrinal history, and current events in the morg.
Shame on you Mr. dodo....
that is all...

Thanks you guys for the info. I appreciate it.

And to call Holland a theologian is to give great latitude to the term.

Basically an MLM salesman. Made millions selling Mormon books.

It is interesting to note the change in backgrounds over the last 30 years. I think it's safe to say - gone are the days where they might call someone to the 12 who is a local small town insurance salesman (Spencer Kimball).

It's also interesting that the only one who has any background in religion is the one many of us here at RfM think is the most likely to crack from the burden of having to prop up Mormonism as a legitimate spiritual belief system.

The LDS Church craves respectability. Calling doctors, lawyers, MBA degree holders as bishops and stake presidents adds to the image the church wants others to have. It probably also serves as a role model to younger church members.

As these professionals serve, they get elevated in church callings to regional authorities, mission presidents then general authorities.

But I believe that most of change is attributable to Gordon Hinckley. In 2005 when his son Richard Hinckley was called as a general authority, Gordon Hinckley said that in order to avoid the appearance of nepotism, he recused himself from consideration. In that same "recusal" speech, Hinckley said something even more interesting that is often over looked. He stated:

"First I’d like to say just a word concerning those we have sustained this afternoon as members of the Quorums of the Seventy.

I am convinced that there are literally hundreds of brethren worthy and capable to serve as general officers of the Church. We see them everywhere. Those sustained today have been chosen to fill particular responsibilities. In most cases, this will involve sacrifice, which will be willingly made."

Gordon B. Hinckley, “Gambling,” Ensign, May 2005, 58.

Hinckley began looking for specific management and legal expertise among GA candidates to perform "particular responsibilities." In reviewing these men's credentials it is quite easy to see what those responsibilities might be, overseeing, protecting and enlarging the LDS Church's immense financial holdings. Their speaking at conferences is only incidental to their intended duties.

I also personally believe that Hinckley had a poor self-image and wanted to look more important than he was. He justified his decision to appear on 60 Minutes, he became a visible celebrity during the Winter Olympics, and he hired more educated and respected men to serve under him.

In the last half century, Mormons have become a Prosperity Gospel, worshipping wealth and denouncing the poor as lazy. They have shifted so far to the Right that there is no room for charity outside the church welfare system, and most Mormons demand that welfare recipients work for their means. Mormons have become parsimonious with their charity, and do not want to help non-Mormons.

You don't want poor religious scholars in a prosperity gospel. You want MBAs who have lots of money. You look up to the Romneys for their wealth and power, and not question if they really have your interests at heart. You start to believe that those who have less are worth less, so you do not promote them to higher church office. The church leaders then believe that they are entitled due to their virtue to live off the tithing and sweat of the poor.

Why is the Pope a more respected office than that of the world's Prophet?

Wonder what the to 15 think of that? Maybe they're trying to up their status as world players, not small bit players in a tiny ( comparatively speaking) church.

Mormonism pales as to Catholism in the world. The Pope is easily recognized world wide as the leader of the world's largest and oldest Christian movement

What would Jeebus do?

Obviously, he would have given everything he had to the poor, sick and afflicted.

Thank you for the feedback and I find many things mentionned very interesting.

Would you go to a hospital that hired MBAs and lawyers, but no doctors or nurses? Would you want your library run by MBAs, or by librarians? If you were suffering depression, would you see an MSW or a JD?

Why would you want your church run by MBAs? It just shows that the LDS Church is a business with a religious theme.

A lot of the problems from Mormonism stem from its improper staffing. Bishops are amateurs thrown into pastoral roles. Real theologians not only study scripture, but also counseling. Upper leadership is more comfortable planning malls than addressing issues like gays in the church or the obvious flaws in the JS works. They have been good at making money, but that is breaking down as church membership dies off.

You need accountants to run a business, but how would Disney have fared if it fired all its artists and creative talent in favor of MBAs and CPAs? Sure, they could squeeze what they have for the most nickels, but building the long term business would be impossible.

I think the church wants to say, look our GA's are educated and successful, and they Believe the church is true. But we also have seen businessmen and lawyers run scams, create bubbles and ruin economies.

Where is the empathy and caring? Oh, those characteristics we associate with women which have no power in the lds church.

The lds church is truly a business masquerading as a church and religion.

had to get some businessmen in to bail them out.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 04/25/2012 12:16PM by mav.

...an apostle was a fisherman, carpenter, farmer?

Doesn't matter. They were charlatan fakes all the same.

I guess they're into fundraising too... http://www.sltrib.com/sltrib/politics/53979172-90/church-email-romney-bennett.html.csp