So, why is it that people actually attend church courts? Honestly...I don't know WHY you would even show up if you got 'in trouble'. Why would anyone want to sit there to be judged by all those guys?

I have never ever understood this even when I was TBM. Now....if I were asked, I'd just say no thanks.

Big brain click for me...as I was considering how to leave...a friend said the church only has the power over you that you give them. Clicked in my head that they are just men and I honestly don't give a rip.

What I dont like is the fact tht people turn up to a cort when they have no defence it's a fake cort that really should have no power.

I skipped my Court of Love, and just went straight up inactive. They excommunicated me, and I was fine with that. I already had doubts at the time, but I was more on the fence about the whole truthiness of the gospel. It took a few years of me being out of the church, to truly understand how messed up the whole thing was.

I was being accused of apostasy so I got a summons to appear before a bishop's court. I responded that it was a 'kangaroo court' & I would not be attending. Since they started it all without me, they could finish it without me. They held their court, & decided that I needed to be ex'd. 2 very somber brethren appeared at my door with a letter from the bishop. I tore it up in front of them & closed the door. The next thing I knew I was being summoned to a church court. I refused to attend that one, as well. The court was held & it was decided there also, that I needed to be ex'd. It was announced in church that I was ex'd. Like an idiot, I appealed the ruling & it was upgraded to disfellowshipment.

My crime? Influencing the youth to think for themselves. I taught early morning seminary, & taught 10-11 yr. olds on Sunday.

Then they have no right to go ahead with the procedings.

Just tell them, "if this is a court, I'm bringing my lawyer -- and I'm filing a countersuit against you".

That will confuse the hell out of them.

Well, a good driver for a lot of courts is the stupidity of members who are devoted yet "sinning" in a big way--or not so big way. So a real believer who is caught up in an adulterous affair will break down in front of his bishop and ask forgiveness and all that, and they will hold a court and then the man or woman will be there with his or her spouse and they're bawling their eyes out. It's pure stupidity that makes the head hurt, when you think about it. You've just handed these unhappy old farts a gift of authority that they can hold over your head and gloat about. If you don't give them that authority, they don't have any. So I think the biggest thing that drives these things is the so-called "offender"--many believers with consciences.

The thing I hate about it the most is its arbitrary nature. One bishop might be very kind and keep all your information close-hold and involve the fewest number of people possible. The next bishop may be vindictive and cruel and drum up a big show to rub your nose in it. If you had a real problem, your problem has now increased at least 15-fold (and that's before they all tell their wives). In either case, the bishops are "inspired" and therefore the defendant has no recourse.

I know I've mentioned this here before, but I was 21 years old and pregnant by my fiancee. Since he was my second (monogomous) sex partner, they excommunicated me. It went down exactly as you describe.

When I think about it now, I'm furious. I had been taught my entire life to submit myself to the authority of others and that i had no say in my own life.

Needless to say, I'm a very different person now. I would laugh if a non-court "court" tried to have any authority over me. It's absurd!

I feel your pain. similar circumstances for me, but the real kicker was for Mr. ambivalentmo. He was forced to bless our child in the bishops office over a year after the "court of love".
The bishop didn't tell him until that very morning that ," unfortunately, you cannot bless your child in the chapel due to the ongoing disfellowshipment."

this is over a year after our marriage, and 30+ family members had come over a thousand miles to see our new baby.

can anyone explain this to me?

My poor, sweet, kind husband who had sex with me, the woman he loved, prior to signing a piece of paper and uttering silly words through a veil....... I guess sex with your life partner is evil.
Evil, pure evil I tell you.......
I do not have the words to express the pain the cult has caused.
Because the church has tainted our love with shame for 16 years, we are going to renew our marriage vows.


This late summer, Sedona az, at sunset.

If you are in the area, please come and celebrate our love and newfound freedom!
All who embrace truth are welcome!

DAMN, I love RFM.

That will be a LOVEly ceremony! Congrats!

Wow. I love RfM too.

I played at a beautiful wedding last weekend and it was such a joyous event. All I could think was how miserable my wedding was. Shotgun. Pulled together in three days. Freshly excommunicated, full of shame.

Last night I had a dream my husband and I renewed our vows, but for some reason we had the ceremony in the chapel and it was my family and the ward telling us what bad people we are because we left the church. My dress turned ugly and everybody divided up the cake and took it home with them without us getting any.

I actually would come to your vow renewal. I like how everyone here is able to make kind of a ward-family of our own. My husband and i love road trips, Arizona isn't really very far, and if you're serious, please email me at harpist.ana@gmail.com

I am totally serious.
I'm going to list the invitation here :)
We deserve to celebrate our new life with ALL of our loved ones, especially fellow escapees.

Is it common to announce who has been exed in sacrament meeting?

i wasn't there but i guess they "outed" my gay cousin in sacrament after he refused to go to therapy to be "healed"

My ward was such a snakepit of gossips that I had a full scoop of dirt on everyone who would have "sat in judgment" of me. I was going to give as good as I got.

Never happened. :-(

was finding out how they want ALLLLLLLLL the details.

My ex could have been excommunicated. I always thought growing up it was a necessary thing. Then love someone who can be excommunicated. My ex could have cared less if he was ex'd--but it would have effected my kids and I in a bad way. After he left, the only thing mormons focused on (one was a MP who was my good friend's father)--was getting him ex'd. They didn't ask how I was, how the kids were. Then when my kids turned 18, my BIL stated they could now have their dad ex'd because I wouldn't have it done.

Court of love--my ass.

"Honestly...I don't know WHY you would even show up if you got 'in trouble'. Why would anyone want to sit there to be judged by all those guys?"

Has there even been a case posted here or anywhere where a mormon called into one of these courts, had the "charges" proven false or thrown out??

Court of love is a farce. No love there. Just people wanting you to look inferior to them so they will have power over you. I have heard numerous testimony from those involved in courts for sexual 'sins' that they just pry and pry to get all the details and make the person far more ashamed and embarrassed than necessary. Many bishops have done similar behind closed doors.

Some people go to these to have their day in court but the 'jury' does it's best to silence you and just wants you to answer direct questions so if you go off on tangents too much, they will silence you.

Here's an actual recording made of Lyndon Lamborn's court of love. He was on trial for apostasy. This one was fairly tame as Lyndon was a class act and didn't get all emotional and didn't let them abuse their power over him. But they wouldn't let him go into much detail regarding church historical problems.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Zc0uzYXb998

My fantasy would be to show up with a bag of stones, hand one to each person there sitting in judgement, and walk out.

Let's see,

The prosecutor chooses your lawyer.

The prosecutor is also the judge.

You are not allowed to see the evidence against you.

You are not told exactly what you are charged with until the trial begins (this makes it difficult for you to bring witnesses for your defense but . . .)

The prosecutor decides which witnesses you are allowed to present on your behalf.

You have no right to object.


What's the problem??

P.S. Oh, yes, I almost forgot. The "jury" is told to use their feelings rather than hold to hard evidence in deciding the verdict.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 04/27/2012 01:27PM by baura.