This last weekend DH & I helped with the installation of a new community garden here in our little town. This meant rubbing shoulders with the LDS community that he used to be involved with. I didn't really know any of them, but he knew just about all of them by first name. It all went fine while we worked. Afterward I followed a woman in her car with my truck full of a third person's garden tools in my truck. Her enthusiastic hug and 'see you again' when we were parting was over the top to me, but I remained polite.
This evening, right after 5 PM, I watched a couple of mishies at the top of my driveway for a few minutes. They didn't seem to be able to make up their mind if they were going to come to the door or not. I was visible from the door, but didn't answer the ring or the knock. There was nothing I wanted to hear and I was busy enough that I didn't want to be interrupted.
DH drove up nearly twenty minutes later and those mishies came bounding out of our TBM neighbor's house asking him if they could help him with anything while he exited his truck. Naturally, he said no thank you.
As the mormon community is aware of where we live and typically the mishies bypass our home (I have watched them walk by while in my yard) I wondered if this was not a direct result of our proximity on Saturday. DH's family is still deeply TBM, his youngest son is on his mission (thankfully things seem to be going ok for him), and those that knew DH in his TBM days have continued to challenge his testimony/lack of - it is the first time I have been this exposed to their general community.
With your experience, what do you think: coincidence or no?

I'd be inclined to say "not a coincidence." The Mormon agenda is just too transparent.

After being out of the church for 20 years & being a high profile member when I left it was an interesting experience on Saturday. I forced some of the stand-offish members to talk to me & many said "Oh I didn't recogize you". I call BS! I even slapped the Stake Pres on the back & called him by his first name.

Even in a small town of 6,000 people it's amazing how little contact you have with the "saints" after you leave.

I'm sure the missionaries were on a "mission" (I know bad pun) when they happened by today. When they offered thier help I told them I was in no need of help.

I do thank my nevermo wife for being so understanding with my past. Being from the east coast & relatively new too mormonism when we meet five years ago - boy have her eyes's been opened!

Oh, how sweet life is being free.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 05/02/2012 12:47AM by travis.

Mormons have a belief that "if you aren't with me, you are against me." So if you leave the church, it must be because you hate them. If they see you later and you are nice and friendly, or even polite, they will assume you are no longer hard-hearted and filled with hate, which means they can bring your humbled butt back to church. They never guess that you left because you didn't want to be Mormon and really had no hard feelings toward Mormons in general. So it's no pain to be polite to them, if the occasion calls for it. It's in no way a sign that you believe in them - just a sign of your own good manners.

Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 05/02/2012 12:56AM by munchybotaz.

Interesting that Mos were involved in a non-Mo activity like a community garden. Is this part of the mainstreaming agenda, do you think?

In this case, from what I observed, there was one person in particular that endorsed the garden and she volunteered several of the LDS members by default. At one meeting the bishop attended to confirm that he would have several LDS men to build the raised bed frames... they did just that (quite well) and promptly left. One of DH's son-in-laws (I suppose mine too) trenched for the plumbing to be installed and helped supply the bed liners, but otherwise it was the one woman that was really active (said woman that I mentioned above).
That said, we had a few other active groups participating as well during the course of the day.
Not sure who will rent the available garden beds; there are several non-LDS that have expressed interest as well.
Can't answer that question any better.

It was no coincidence.

They will try and pester you periodically, more so if you give them an inch by being polite.

The cult is stepping up its efforts to reel former members back in.

Nope it's not a coincidence.

They are desperate and you pitching up at a helping hands type of event will have been seen as God answering their prayers for someone to teach.

I spent 40 years as a Mormon taught to believe that every coincidence was a miracle and that nothing is a coincidence.

So sometimes now I like to think a coincidence is just a coincidence.

However, missionaries are taught to get referrals from LDS members. They are taught that this is by far the most effective way to find converts. On my mission, at least, we never asked for names to do a cold call. Our objective was to get the member to invite their friend to talk to the missionaries.

The sitting in the driveway for a few minutes thing is very odd though - missionaries are used to going up to people and knocking on their doors and being rejected - they do it all day every day - so it took me a minute to put the pieces together and figure out what they were likely doing.

Also the whole, can I help with anything? is an odd play for missionaries - we were taught to be quite direct in asking if there was any interest in hearing our message - being told we were under severe condemnation from god if we didn't.

Here's what I think happened that is consistent with what we may have done as missionaries and what you say happened:

The missionaries reviewed the ward list looking for part member families. We regularly visited "part member families" and frankly more than half our baptisms came from these part member families where we baptised children and occassionally a spouse of an inactive church member. (I'm guessing here that your husband is an inactive member and you are not a member? Or alternatively that you have unbaptised children over 8?) It is very likely that they found your name on a ward list and were specifically targetting your family.

When they got to your driveway they decided that they wanted to find out more about you so they checked their list for a nearby member family. They found your neighbors and went over to grill your neighbors about you. The neighbors were friendly to the missionaries but told them that your family would not be interested. The missionaries had come all this way and saw your husbad drive up - they immediately came out to talk to him but used the "soft" approach because the neighbors told them you and your family weren't interested.

It is also possible that, as you suspect, the missionaries were going around grilling members for referrals and someone saw you on Saturday so you came to mind. Again we would always use the person who gave the referrals name if we received one, but it is possible the person said "don't use my name".

It is a very remote possibility that one of your dad's family / even his son gave his name as a referal. However, again missionaries are trained to "name drop" the name of the referral to have a better chance of getting in the door.

In any case it sounds like you probably have your TBM neighbors to thank for the missionaries soft approach - they were probably mortified that the missionaries went to visit you despite their telling the missionaries to leave you alone. (I know that was most members response to us as missionaries - they were embarrased at the idea of us going to talk to their friends.)

As I said I've spent 40 years surrounded by TBMs thinking every coincidence iss a non-coincidence but a miracle, so I personally want to believe it was just a coincidence and I think it's very likely it was just that.

I appreciate your input. DH at first said coincidence with his BIC background also - I still feel it is more likely not as I said, in our 2.5 years here only one other visit my mishies took place right after we moved in and DH wonderfully handled it.

Our neighbor is not family, but in the bishopric, and knows DH's large family quite well. This same neighbor has a difficult time even conversing with me while we both garden in our respective yards.

From his above post, DH seems to have shifted his thinking, but it is good to see it from other points of view as I know culture has a lot to do with viewpoint.

Thank you.

Thank you all for your input.

I have to say, I have only had missionaries at my door one time before meeting DH - they were JW while I was in college. That was not a good experience.

Here in this small town twice we have had LDS at our door, so I suppose that supports my thinking that it is not coincidence. No JW's knocking, although my massage therapist is associated with them, so I know they are here too.

Have a wonderful day!