Wonder how many people go against their own intuition, their own needs and wishes, their own inner voices in order to be obedient. And to whom?

Seems to me this is one of the more damaging concepts in tscc.

Obedience is the scariest word on the planet to me. It is the bedrock of any cult.

When I was young, several times in Sacrament Meeting I heard the story of the way the Sheiks in Saudi Arabia trained their prize stallions.

The final test to prove the horse was completely trained was to not give the horse any water until they were to the point of near death from dehydration within minutes. They then turned the horse loose and let it run to water. Just as the horse was about to drink they blew a whistle which was the horses signal to come to its master.

If the horse returned to the master without drinking then it became the Sheik's new prize stallion. I think they said if it didn't that they shot it, don't remember that part exactly.

ANYWAY, anyone who has ever been to more than five sacrament meetings knows the purpose of this story. If you want to get into heaven you have to be the horse that didn't drink the water(or the coffee, ha ha). You have to be the obedient servant that goes against his own nature, denies everything good about himself, denies personal growth, denies loving who he/she really loves, sacrifices their relationships with family and children, accepts a defeated atrophied life and does the bidding of the church.

I hated that story but didn't really know why yet. I do now.

Obedience is a tool of control. I have a lot of employees. I don't value the ones who do exactly as they are told, as much as I value the ones who can think for themselves, think critically and make good rational decisions--which are in their interest as well as the company's.

Obedience is dangerous, but beyond that, there is nothing more boring than being around anyone who does everything they are told to do just because they were told. Makes my skin crawl.

And it's all they got left.

When baby elephants are trained, CONTROL is established while the elephant is very small. A chain is placed around the baby elephant’s leg and attached to a three foot iron stake which is driven into the ground. Therefore for several days the baby elephant pulls and tugs and strains against the stake and the chain... but he is too small to dislodge it. Soon he is convinced, by this experience, that the three foot stake and chain have the POWER to bind him. He no longer attempts to pull free.

TEN YEARS LATER, when the elephant is fully grown — weighing thousands of pounds— capable of uprooting trees — pushing or pulling a loaded railway car— he can still be held by a three foot stake! Yet, if that stake were as big around and planted as deep as a telephone pole, he could easily uproot it!

How does the stake and chain hold the elephant?

CONTROL & CONDITIONING.

Past experiences, imprints, and impressions that have gone into the subconscious mind will be accepted by the subconscious mind as truths.

What a great analogy. I would love to go back and give a sacrament meeting talk about that. Because my point would be that it is a perfect example of atrophied development.

For those of us BIC, trained from birth that we had to obey at all costs it is the same thing.

I am so glad that at 23 I realized I could pull up my stake.

Obedience appeals to many, many people who thrive on a highly-structured experience; that's why it works.

Studies have shown that people with high levels of social intelligence are less likely to be obedient.

That must be why the church is so afraid of the intellectual types. They are the ones most likely to convince the masses that obedience to a single entity is not a good idea.

In the Mormon church the leaders are held up to a high level of status and adoration. All the while they are preaching to the people to be obedient to their words and commands. The possibilities make me cringe.

The leaders will put out small commands that seem like they aren't all that important in the big picture. I think they do it to see how obedient the people are. To test the waters and see how far they can push their demands. If they can get them to be obedient to the small things, the big ones are not far behind.

Don't wear a second earring, wear only white shirts, are small requests. Most members complied. Not only did they comply, but they saw to that others complied. They put social pressure on the non compliant. Reminding them there would be no eternal salvation for them if they didn't comply.

Demands for time and energy have gotten bigger. The pressures have become commands, not requests. You are told you and your family WILL show up on Saturday morning to work for the church for free. You are told that you will have to find a replacement if you don't show. This is not a request. It's a demand. Who will be obedient? Who will not?

In my case, I was told I WILL tell the brethren what they want to know about my past. And I will put it in writing. I Will ignore the teachings of repentance, forgiveness,baptism, and the atonement, and tell them what they want to know. They were demanding that I deny Christ by ignoring his teachings. This is standard church procedure for members who are in the same circumstances I was. They want to see if you will be obedient to them, even to the point of denying Christ. If you aren't, they don't want you.

This realization was one of the biggest shocks of my life. It's when I realized the men in charge are truly evil. They will cajole, coerce, and try to make you think they are kind and filled with love, while demanding strict obedience to their every command.

Put it in writing?!?! That is really sick. My jaw is on the floor. You are kidding me--well, actually I know you are not.

NOT kidding. It would have then went into my file for the rest of my life. Every bish and sp in my life could order my file and read up on every little sin I'd committed since I was 18.

I pretty much told them to go have sex with themselves, then put it in writing. I'd be happy to tell the whole ward about it.

I went in with good intentions. I left knowing for certain sure they were some of the most evil people I've ever come in contact with. They're destroying lives right and left. They are enjoying it. Don't ever think for a moment they aren't enjoying it.

...because I'm a dog. That's my role. It makes my life easier and more secure. I obey my mom because it's the best thing for me to do.

For people it ain't so good. People ain't dogs, know what I mean? I mean I obey my mama I get a treat. Good things happen, I get loves. People obey the Mo-church, what do they get? Certainly no rewards, they are only promised some sort of nebulous after-life thing that sounds like a puppy mill existence, at least for women it does.

I still gots a mind. There are times when I would NOT obey, but usually I do. F'rinstance one time I heard some really-wrong-type noises and started barkin my head off and mom just tole me to shaddup. I gots Buster and Ruby barkin too. We kept on and she gots really p!$$ɛԃ. She never smacks us even if we deserves it but I think she mighta been tempted, ya know? Anyhow we finally give up and quit. Couple hours later she discovered our outside Xmas decorations and lites had been all tore up and vandalized. That was the noises I'd heard... She apologized to us and then gave us pets, loves, and treats. And now she listens to us more!!

Yer Pal,
Reggie
The I-Ain't-No-Robo-Dog The StalkerDog™

I hate to be commenting on 'everything', but...that was clever and right on. I love the "some sort of nebulous after-life thing that sounds like a puppy mill existence".

I am a very literary dog! Mom confiscated my thesaurus but I ordered another one with my Dogscover Card. I hid the new one in my doggie bed where mom hopefully won't find it, I likes to keep my bed nice and disgusting so she won't go pokin around!

I guess what I think's wrong about people doin the blind obedience thing is that it just automatically leads to the I'm-better'n-you mindset. Greater peoples command and lesser peoples obey. And how ever'body just seems to accept this... It ain't right in this ole dog's opinion.

All that "created equal" poot, people only pay lip service to that.

With dogs it's different cause we ain't the same species as you... there ain't no I'm-better stuff because we're too different! Of course some people are mean and abusive and think they're way above animals so it's okay to beat em or even kill em- I know all about those- but I'm talking in general.

My journey out of the morg included the thought:

"Why have I obeyed authorities whom I'm not required to obey?? I already have enough of them in the various government agencies that have impact in my life. Isn't it wise to minimize the number of people you have to bow down to??"

I came of age in the 60's and I learned that questioning authority is often a wise choice.