The final step, in my Exit Process from Mormonism aka Recovery has been: Making Peace with it.


How I know I am out:

The emotional attachment/bond to the beliefs has been replaced with love of all of life.

The following is how I made peace with it.
The short version.

Two of many quotes on anger I like:
He who angers you, conquers you. Elizabeth Kenny

Get mad, then get over it. ~
Colin Powell

Making Peace with it.
You know you are really out when.....(or I know I'm out when)...
there are no more resentments, anger, regrets, or self recrimination, explosive responses, name calling, etc.

You know you are really out when....
you can live with and love Mormons and accept them like anyone else.

You know you are really out when.....
you are kind to the missionaries and other members, and maintain a rational relationship and friendship like everyone else.

You know you are really out when...
you understand that Mormonism is a religion like thousands of others and it's OK to change your mind, leave it, and know you are OK and were OK all along.

You know you are really out when .....
you respect all people's rights to choose their own religion (or none) as a valid choice and honor that right.

You know you are really out when....
you love your friends and family regardless of their religious choices.

You know you are really out when...
you own your own power, set healthy boundaries when necessary, and take charge of your own life, living it today, not for some reward after death.

You know you are really out when...
you choose your friends regardless of their religious choices.

You know you are really out when....
you can go to a church building, read their scriptures, articles, etc, attend functions associate with Mormons and remain respectful.

I didn't start out with those goals, but they evolved naturally during my process over the last few years.

I will always live with and love Mormons. Every person has something to add to my life.


Some of my new thinking scripts that keep me focused on living in the: Now

Life is short: Make peace with your past so it doesn't mess up your present

Forgive everyone everything

Have an attitude of gratitude.

Laughter is the best medicine. Laugh every day.

Someone else's opinion of me is none of my business.:-)

This is what works for me.
You find what works for you.

wine country girl Wrote:
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> n/t


Good point. I'm a long time "list maker" so writing down what I want to be my "end goal" has been very beneficial to me and works with how I think and process info.

Awesome

Here's a few other sure fire sign you're out.


You know you are really out when....
Mormons can't live with and you and Mormon's can't accept you like they accept other mormons.

You know you are really out when.....
missionaries and other members are not kind to you and they will not maintain a rational relationship and friendship with you like they do with everyone else.

You know you are really out when...
Mormons don't understand that it was OK to change your mind and leave it.

You know you are really out when .....
Mormon's don't respect your rights to choose your own beliefs as a valid choice and honor that right.

You know you are really out when....
Mormons don't love you and your family regardless of your religious choices.

You know you are really out when...
you own your own power, set healthy boundaries when necessary, and take charge of your own life, living it today, not for some reward after death.

You know you are really out when...
you choose your friends regardless of their religious choices, despite the fact that mormons often choose not to have you as a friend.

You know you are really out when....
you can't go to your children's wedding and you can't go to a mormon church or mormon function without some mormons being disrespectful.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 05/09/2012 02:35PM by thingsithink.

This is a pretty realistic list.

I like this list--but then I like elements of SQ's, too.
However, seems to me the person who "is there", won't feel the need to come to RFM and suggest anything to anybody.

Davo Wrote:
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> I like this list--but then I like elements of
> SQ's, too.
> However, seems to me the person who "is there",
> won't feel the need to come to RFM and suggest
> anything to anybody.

Actually if I am "there" I have a huge responsibility to Pay It Forward and share !! Many do that here. Probably at least a quarter of the posters.

Recovery From Mormonism just isn't the place to mount a "I love Mormons And So Can You!" campaign.

Timothy

I don't always agree with you, SusieQ, or how you express yourself sometimes.

When I don't agree, I don't comment on your posts.

But, as with this checklist, when I find your comments helpful, I'm very glad you're here.

From what you've shared with the board, I figure you've been through a lot ... and you've made peace with Mormonism ... AND you've survived with your marriage to a TBM intact.

All that, plus the fact that you're an older gal not shooting from her hip, I value your presence here even when I don't agree with you.

Right now, I find your checklist helpful and I want you to know that. Thanks for posting it.

I personally appreciated the full range of posts. Them commenting on her posts was for me helpful and I think this came at least partially in my thread asking questions yesterday.

I can see both experiences and perspectives.

I think some people are of course in different states and the Mormons out of the Zion belt can be differently accepting, also sometimes a ward or community is more accepting of outsiders and inactive people than others.

Additionally, some people are more adversarial whether Mormon or ExMo with their views and that can be more complex.

I think clearly SusieQ has an experience that is different from othes and I like a healthy balance and I like at least in this case her offering, but it has not been my experience, so it is useful to know that it is not others' experiences at least so far. I have been out for years.

I don't know if Susie Q is religious and has found another community of people where she can be more grounded and if that too assists her in feeling accepted and fitting in. ie. If others can say she is 'Christian' at least so that helps with a shared experience and language. Each element makes a difference in my experience and observation.

wonderer Wrote:
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>
> I don't know if Susie Q is religious and has found
> another community of people where she can be more
> grounded and if that too assists her in feeling
> accepted and fitting in. ie. If others can say she
> is 'Christian' at least so that helps with a
> shared experience and language. Each element makes
> a difference in my experience and observation.

I answered that very briefly below.

It's a B.S. check list, unless some major caveats are added. The implication is if you can't check those things off the list, you're not out. Unfortunately, many people can't check off many of those things because mormons will not allow them to.

That aside, I do think there is an element of SusieQ's perspective that is valuable. However, one thing that is missing is the acknowledgement that mormonism teachings seriously opposes her point of view and does not allow her point of view to exist in most mormon circles. The cult rejects her view of acceptance.

Acceptance works with those who are willing to reciprocate, but it fails miserably with many in the cult.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 05/09/2012 03:58PM by thingsithink.

thingsithink Wrote:
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>I get along fine w/ the Mormons I know and associate with. I can have a light hearted discussion w/ my believing hubby also!

I don't have an ounce of trouble with LDS folks and I know when to share and when not to share my personal opinions. Usually it's best, in my view, to not get into religious discussions, or to cut them off.

Relationships are so much more than religious views (or political views) as the case maybe, but they can sure put a dent in some decent relationships in a hurry.

Nobody controls what I am "allowed" to do as I know where and when to use my personal power.

I personally do have a couple of Mormon friends that I do okay with. However, it is common to have Mormons say things like "This church is true." and it is natural for me to want to say "No it is not." This is a battle that cannot be won.

So at best I can say "I don't believe it." But there is that struggle on their end to believe and the struggle on my end not to believe when around Mormon circles. It is a war of paradigms.

If I say nothing, then it seems that there is slowly but surely a dark corner I get painted into. If I say something, then it doesn't seem to go anywhere much of the time if not most of the time.

I have found that discussing with certain people, the history of things seems to help. They can then say 'the church is true, but it is very flawed' which can be a middle ground.

It can be a rare Mormon who can really allow another person to think and live differently and often that is looked at as a fringe view and behavior at least in my experience and observation. I do live in the Zion belt though.

It's going to happen.

Especially with Mormons. And those of us who are younger have a long time to be treated like shit by our TBM family members.

This "tra la la la la" attitude sounds great on paper, but it is completely unrealistic.

I'm also concerned about what kind of "human" beings we would actually be if we did just dissociate from anything/anyone we didn't like all the time.

Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 05/09/2012 04:16PM by quebec.

quebec Wrote:
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> n/t

Neither do I.
There is a saying I like:
Life is like a photograph, we develop from the negatives.

I just don't see any value in dwelling on the negatives any longer than necessary to process the experience. But, hey, that's just me.

I agree with you to a point; however, I think we also want to avoid overemphasizing the negative.

In other words, don't make a mountain out of a molehill. However, that doesn't mean you pretend the molehill doesn't exist. There's a balance between processing the emotion and pretending that no negative emotions exist.

There is also some wisdom in not letting every little thing bug the hell out of you. Some things truly hurt, but some things I make bigger than they need to be.

One of the concepts in Mormonism that always bothered me was that anger is a sin - that you shouldn't even feel it. Everything I've read about emotional intelligence (e.g. processing emotions in a healthy way) is that you allow yourself to feel the emotion, you accept the emotion as natural and then you make two decisions.
1) What are you going to do about the emotion? You can't control the emotion but you can control what you do.
2) Do you dwell on the emotion or do you move on?

Pretending the emotions aren't there and don't exist (repression) is arguably the most emotionally unintelligent thing to do. Over-reacting and holding on too long is also unhealthy.

Is that those of us with PTSD have to process emotions differently now.

Anger and rage and "making mountains out of molehills" are very different for us.

And the worst thing is to try to brush off anger because it doesn't happen that way.

It biologically can't for us anymore.

We have to feel anger and rage much much deeper.

Good point - I'm fortunate not to have that.

Raptor Jesus Wrote:
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> Is that those of us with PTSD have to process
> emotions differently now.
>
> Anger and rage and "making mountains out of
> molehills" are very different for us.
>
> And the worst thing is to try to brush off anger
> because it doesn't happen that way.
>
> It biologically can't for us anymore.
>
> We have to feel anger and rage much much deeper.



I believe in feeling all of it, and finding a way that will process it all in a way that brings peace of mind. I have found that dwelling on the negative/anger/rage, etc. unresolved grief, and on and on is problematic when there is no resolution.

Raptor Jesus Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> It's going to happen.
>
> Especially with Mormons. And those of us who are
> younger have a long time to be treated like @#$%&
> by our TBM family members.
>
> This "tra la la la la" attitude sounds great on
> paper, but it is completely unrealistic.
>
> I'm also concerned about what kind of "human"
> beings we would actually be if we did just
> dissociate from anything/anyone we didn't like all
> the time.


OK..this is a personal choice that sounds like it's misunderstood...... First of all, I carefully acknowledge the detrimental power of the negative and move into the positive to have better results -- that's how I do it. It fits my thinknig process best.

Some folks don't get how and why I do that but it's for my own personal peace of mind. It's very realistic and takes all of the situation into account as I process it and take a position of resolution that most benefits making peace with all of my life.


Works for me! :-)

There are some good points in the list.

It's funny though, sometimes I forget that I bumped on something during the day. Then one or two days later, I see a bruise and I realize that even if I did not pay attention to the bump, it eventually left its mark and I have to deal with it.

The pollyanna approach works great in the movies. Wrapping up a story with "they all lived happily ever after" is also really lovely--but it does not ring any bells for me.

I have been through a lot. I have been drug through hell by the that cult. I like all the contributions here. All of them. I am not into coddling and I don't like sacred cows.

I like Elton John's song, I Want Love. It translates for me to my life, the way I feel and to RFM in a big way.

So bring it on, I've been bruised

Don't give me love that's clean and smooth

I'm ready for the rougher stuff

No sweet romance, I've had enough

I knew I was out the second I realized it was a fraud. I hit the ground running. I did not then and do not now feel the need to respect a fraud or anyone's choice to belong to it. I am sick to my stomach that my family is part of it as I should be.

If you need a checklist to see if you are out, you are not.

blueorchid Wrote:
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> If you need a checklist to see if you are out,
> you are not.

Perhaps you missed her last line?
"This is what works for me.
You find what works for you."

She was stating what works for her, and acknowledging that what works for her may not work for others. I don't get why she's taking craps for that. (that a few posters who like to gang up on others would do it, I don't wonder, but you are one of the more level-headed ones. What gives?)

My last line is not about "taking craps". The things I post I mean.

I felt like contributing what works for me. That is all. I like to think that anyone reading any thread on this board would get a wide variety of viewpoints on any subject.

The reason I say "if you need a checklist to see if you are out, then you are not" is because I feel a person knows in their gut if they are in or they are out. I think that is a valid position to take no matter what the original post is.

Not every post to the contrary is a pot shot.

smorg Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> blueorchid Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > If you need a checklist to see if you are out,
> > you are not.
>
> Perhaps you missed her last line?
> "This is what works for me.
> You find what works for you."
>
> She was stating what works for her, and
> acknowledging that what works for her may not work
> for others. I don't get why she's taking craps for
> that. (that a few posters who like to gang up on
> others would do it, I don't wonder, but you are
> one of the more level-headed ones. What gives?)

It's the same exact posters, some of them going after me for years and years. Just the usual Internet nastiness. It's funny now because it's so predictable.

..deleted...



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 05/09/2012 06:46PM by SusieQ#1.

+1

blueorchid Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
>
>
> If you need a checklist to see if you are out,
> you are not.

That struck me funny. I'm a long time "List Maker" -- long family tradition with the women in our family. And, personally a list or an "end result" goal that is in black and white is, in my case, a way to evaluate why and how I can make more changes and make my life even better. The end result in my case is to Make Peace ... with all of my life. Life is short. I want to enjoy it.

It's a bit freaky. So are Facebook accounts that don't use privacy settings - wow. I'm gobsmacked.

Really, Susie, you should implement those privacy settings. That's quite a collection of "interesting" posts for just one week! If I can find you so easily, guaranteed others can too.

I won't give you away, but geez, my stomach is still quivering!



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 05/09/2012 05:06PM by serena.

Agree!

I found what purports to be an email exchange between SuzieQ and Peterson (the Mormon columnist) on the Internet. If it was her, she was ripping him a new one. I liked it.

Care to share?

thingsithink Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I found what purports to be an email exchange
> between SuzieQ and Peterson (the Mormon columnist)
> on the Internet. If it was her, she was ripping
> him a new one. I liked it.
>
> Care to share?


I don't have the link handy. It's on SHIELDS I think. I emailed before I had a clue who he was. I was not impressed. Still not.

Thank you, Suzie.

Ok..gang..this is MY list. Some seem to have missed that very clear point. Make your own list and share it. I see some did.

It's just my opinion on what works in MY case. If something works for you, fine, if not, fine.

It's always amazing to me to see the same words interpreted so differently by different people. I'm on target, I'm not on target, I'm helpful, I'm not helpful -- all from the same words.

Hello, people, I can say the same people about other posters. It's the Internet! That is how it works.

Those that know me personally would never, ever use "Pollyanna" to describe me! That is really funny though. Tough, very realistic, funny, fun, helpful, giving, etc. not a whiner! Positive instead of negative yes, but that is not a Pollyanna.


I do get a kick out of those who still think they need to find fault with someone's Recovery Process like they are the only ones that know how to do it right! What a hoot! :-)

For those that are curious: I am not religious in any sense of the word. I'm mostly agnostic/atheist. Depends on the particular subject. I have no belief that this amazing universe was created by human's creative idea of a higher power or deity.
That is far too limited.


I have privacy settings on FB. I post a lot of fun things I find interesting that appeal mostly to my "Friends and Family" list but I post the "Share" items "Public."

It's interesting to see the same posters finding fault with me and ripping me to shreds. I look forward to it! Probably the best laugh I have of the day!! Using the Internet to rip into a stranger! oh boy have times changed!!! :-)

SusieQ posted this just now:
"Using the Internet to rip into a stranger!"

you answer yourself here:

"It's the Internet! That is how it works."
just sayin... :)

bignevermo Wrote:
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> SusieQ posted this just now:
> "Using the Internet to rip into a stranger!"
>
> you answer yourself here:
>
> "It's the Internet! That is how it works."
> just sayin... :)


Yup.... and it never stops!! So I find something to laugh at every day because of the freedom of the keyboard and the way people shoot it like it's full of bullets! hehe



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 05/09/2012 06:26PM by SusieQ#1.

You have learned how to let Mormon's opinions roll of your back and have no problem just accepting their opinions. But you haven't figured out how to do the same with ex-Mormons.

thingsithink Wrote:
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> You have learned how to let Mormon's opinions roll
> of your back and have no problem just accepting
> their opinions. But you haven't figured out how
> to do the same with ex-Mormons.

That's really quite untrue. I say over and over and over and over that this is YOUR path, YOUR journey. It's NOT NOT NOT about me. Never was, never will be.
That's a total understanding that everyone does things and processes their experiences their own way.

I am amazed at how my many seem to purposely twist things.
Oh well.
I do the best I can.
Not everything I read has any value to me either! :-)

Why are you so frustrated? You can't seem to let go of the fact that some disagree with you. Relax, It's only my opinion.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 05/09/2012 06:30PM by thingsithink.

thingsithink Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Why are you so frustrated? You can't seem to let
> go of the fact that some disagree with you.
> Relax, It's only my opinion.


I thought we were having a discussion!
So I'll sum it up:
"I'm only responsible for what I say, not for what you understood"... .great quote! :-)
Frustrated? Me? I have the same right to comment as you do.
I just enjoy the exchange. It's FUN! And often, gives me a good laugh. Besides, opinions are so varied here, it's great. I don't need the Internet posters approval! LOL



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 05/09/2012 06:35PM by SusieQ#1.

Very impressive list SusieQ#1. I realize you are way ahead of me. I think it will take me some time to get to that point.

sam Wrote:
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> Very impressive list SusieQ#1. I realize you are
> way ahead of me. I think it will take me some
> time to get to that point.


sam: it's not a contest! :-) There is no only one true path!
Do it your way and find a way to have a peaceful life on your own terms!

Actually I think it is a great list. I am not sure about my list. Right now, I am just trying to be happy, content, and learn. When will I graduate--I am not sure--maybe never.