Before you knew, or even before you were really questioning if the church might be a lie, did you ever ask tough questions in gospel doctrine, priesthood/relief society or other classes at church? I mean hard questions while still a believer.

One of my last callings was Adult Gospel SS. I was released for bringing up "nuanced" ideas and reading from Robert Kirby in my lessons.

I always questioned the assumptions members had that were contradicted in scripture. For example, there was a lesson on keeping Sunday holy, and I asked how many times was it recorded that Jesus actually went to church on their Sabbath in his three years of ministry? (I think it is less than five). Another was, why is baptism at 8 the age, when there is no way a child can truly have a testimony of such a complex topic, and when neither Jesus nor Joseph Smith were baptized at 8...

Questions like these got me dirty looks and once in a while I was asked by the teacher before the lesson if I would please not ask them tough questions.

I just smiled and said something like: If you promise to teach correctly.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 05/22/2012 08:59AM by Jesus Smith.

I think most ex-Mormons went through a stage where we had serious questions we wanted answered, but were accused of trying to be disruptive when we brought them up. If the question can't be answered, then Mormons feel it was intentionally designed to trap them.

The church's problem is that instead of shutting up and being a good Mormon, like most of us would have done in the old days, members can now look up the real answers on the internet.

I did ask a few, but not nearly as bold as you :)

In GP class I got the teacher and the misshies all in a flutter about the Trinity, I just couldn't get it. I had been active too briefly to appreciate the confines in which teachers operate. I actually thought is was OK to ask probing questions! silly silly me

I questioned the whole trip about Sabbaths and did Jesus say not to honor the Sabbath he kept, the Jewish one.

I told the Bish I wanted to do civil marriages and was that alright. Yes, it stumped him. Bad. I think I saw his eyes roll back into his head briefly

I asked if my being married to my hubby was good enough even though he was dead. I did not want to remarry and cited Hep C as the reason. got hmmmm and sidesteped

Asked my RS pres and hubby didn't they think Jesus would rather I be serving breakfast to others than sitting in church Easter Sunday. Told them I sat across from a transvistite that Easter morn and absolutely loved it. Stunned them, I did

That's about it.

I feel like I was always asking questions in church when stuff didn't make sense to me. I was getting so fed up with people telling me to pray about it. I remember getting in a huge debate in Sunday school about why dinosaurs weren't in the bible. My little sister still tells me how proud she was of me that day, because I had the courage to question what didn't make sense.

In my mind, scientists could prove things with tangeble evidence that was contradicting what I was being told and I was supposed to trust praying to prove the scientists wrong? It really did not make sense to me at all and I was inactive by the time I was 15. I had a reputation as a trouble maker. But I wasn't trying to make trouble...I just really wanted to know the truth.

I had recently read about Joseph Smith having a pistol in his possession when he was "martyred" at Carthage Jail. I don't recall where I read it (may have been NMKMH by Brodie) but I recall that it referenced/quoted the official LDS tome 'the History of the church'.

we had a sunday school lesson where we watched a film showing the martydom of JS - of course, it didnt show the pistol.
at the end, we had a Q&A session, where I asked "where was the pistol". the reaction from one person - the HPGL - was quite forceful and emphatic..... JS NEVER had a pistol. It was a LIE and I was a LIAR to suggest such a thing. I was asked to come out and talk to him outside the class.
I was quite shocked and upset at being called a liar. I defended my assertion and offered to go and look for the passage in the History of the church (which we kept in the library). The offer was not taken up. It coloured my relationship with someone who I had considered - up to that point - to be a friend.

fast forward ~12 years

more recently, I have related this story to a TBM and once again, been called a LIAR.... this time because, according to this TBM, everyone in the church knows JS had a pistol at carthage as it was taught in SS lessons and Institute... therefore I must have been making up my story, to discredit the church

The pistol is one of those facts that the church admits or denies, based on the current public attitude about weapons and defending oneself. It may even change from location to location. In the southeast, no one really cares that he used a gun, and the fact that the church has tried to conceal this truth is taken as evidence that modern Mormon leadership are a bunch of pansies. On the other hand, when I was in California, the missionaries used to talk admiringly about Joseph Smith having tried to defend himself among ourselves, but we never dared relay such information to the locals, who tended to hate guns and those who possessed them.

I pretty much just listened and then I'd discuss it with whomever--my "ex" (we still have long discussions about mormonism and when, where, how, why we started questioning in our long road out). I did teach R.S. for 4 years and I got "reprimanded" a few times--once called on the carpet in front of the entire class by the R.S. president.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 05/22/2012 09:29AM by cl2.

I was a good little Mormon boy of about 22 and only asked difficult questions to my Bishop, in private. You can't express doubt publicly! Then I put them back on the shelf, blamed myself, got married to a TBM, and kept on plugging.

Eventually the shelf collapsed. I am just now beginning to extricate myself, and I can't tell you the rage I have inside right now. I really don't know what to do with myself.

almostThere Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> and I can't tell
> you the rage I have inside right now. I really
> don't know what to do with myself.

Go, on try us. We don't mind. That is what this board is for.

No, but I liked when people did, mostly because I wanted to know more and I could tell that we weren't being told everything. It was interesting how peple got chastized for bringing up a challenging question. I knew something wasn't right.

I remember one day during a class wondering why Jesus wasn't the main focus if the Mormons liked to argue that they were "Christian". I looked for the picture of Jesus, and he was in the back of the room. In the front were all the founding prophets who everyone loved to talk about. I wondered but didn't say anything.

When I was a zone leader, The Godmakers in Spanish was making its rounds in the mission area. We lost a few investigators one month to that video, and the two pairs of sisters in that district wanted to know how to repsond to it. So we found a copy (the mother of a member) and borrowed a VCR (yep, old days). After viewing it, the sisters were clearly distraught and questioning everything themselves.

What did I do? I took a lot of time answering and reassuring them. Ug.

Deep down inside, it bothered me too, but I didn't dare question, as a leader. I put up a secure image of a knowing zone leader.

The mission prez heard about it. In a month, I was in the office as his assistant, set apart to go train penishood leaders on how to lead in the church. Ug.

actually taught anything meaningful, or if they got to see how the whole doctrine came together and made sense.

My Mom shot my (then less active) Dad a look I'll never forget. He had obviously asked her the same questions and he was just warned to keep his mouth shut.

It was 50 years ago, and I still remember thinking

'oh my, it's a sham'.

There was this one time in Gospel Doctrine class. I had been doing alot of reading about Joseph Smith and Polygamy. This was back in the early 1990's and there were several books on the subject out, written by LDS historians.

I had come across the conflicting scriptures in Jacob in the Book of Mormon and Section 132 in the Doctrine and Covenants regarding polygamy. The Gospel Doctrine teacher was our recently released Stake President. After class, I approached him and asked if he had an explanation for the discrepancy; I was sure that there must have been a misprint or something. He read the two scriptures, got really vacant look on his face, and asked if he could look them up at home and get back to me. I said sure. He never did get back to me, and, in fact, avoided me in the hallways afterwards.

So, I wasn't disruptive in class, I just had an honest question that I was sure a Stake President could answer. It was my first experience with leaders who don't have any answers. In fact, he didn't even know about the "problem" beforehand.

I had two moments that stood out for me.

Thankfully, my mom married a non-Mormon who remained a nomo all his life. He was a gentle and kind man, however. A truly great father.

I remember one night in MIA they showed a film intended to scare all us kids into only dating members. I don't remember much of it, but realized it tried to depict a non-member on a date with a girl and he was just this side of an axe murderer. I was hurt and offended that they would depict MY DAD like that.

But my pivotal point was when I was 16 and attending Seminary at the Grossmont Ward in San Diego taught by Sherman Gibbs. I really loved him, and he had a clear affection for all of us. He was teaching something about how the prophets fill in a spiritual gap in our lives, and it just didn't make sense. I asked him if he felt we were somehow born deficient -- that God would make us less than whole and unable to interact with him unless we had a prophet. He said that was true. Without the prophet, we'd essentially be lost. It still didn't make sense. I asked it again, and he repeated the same answer.

I was sitting with my girlfriend on my right and my sister on my left, and they both elbowed me at the same time when I posed the question again.

That was the year I went inactive. Thank God for my nevermo dad. We had some great Sunday mornings together after that.

I used to ask questions all the time. I got a reputation for being a troublemaker and shunned and talked about behind my back. Tons of fun being with mormons. I had bishops ask me to not ask questions in class as that was the time to build up people's faith and not to find out the answers to individuals questions

By then I knew that I was on my way out. Not only for the screwed up doctrine but for the culture of shaming others and making people get in line and follow the culture.

It still took me years to leave and get the answers to my questions on polygamy, black priesthood, and the origin of the Book of mormon. Ironically the answers were only a mouse click away once the internet was available.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 05/22/2012 11:00AM by upsidedown.

I found that if one asked a difficult question or made a scriptural point contrary to the lesson, one would immediately be shut down by either the teacher or another class member who "knew" the lesson manuel could never be wrong. However, each time other members would come up to tell me afterwards that they agreed with me but didn't have the guts to say so in class, though one time another member did indicate she agreed with me and she got an angry look from her TBM husband. In HP when I stated Jesus did not bleed from every pore in Gethsemene, another quorum member tried to make a compromise.

On my mission, we could ask a GA a question via paper. I asked, "If the LDS Church is the true church of Christ, why has it always been so small?"

He actually read the question, then looked up and said, "What a stupid question!" and moved on to something more banal about mission rules.

I was crushed. It was a serious question, something that had bugged me my whole mission in France where Mormons are dismissed as a nutty little sect, and a GA read it and tossed it aside.

The more I thought about it, the more I realized he simply didn't have an answer. I heard more GAs give stupid answers to questions they didn't have answers to, like how to treat gays. It made me realize that these men of God had no more access to answers than I did.

I used to ask questions but i found out there are only 3 answers to any question.
1. You have to have faith
2. H.f. will answer all questions in the afterlife
3. You should pray and read your scriptures and the answers will come to you

Yep, there are only so many times you can ask totally different questions and get the same canned response. As a convert at first I really thought the problem was with me. Was it faith? Was I prideful? Did I not have the milk so was unworthy of the meat?

In retrospect you could ask the tough questions because you were sincerely confused and end up feeling confused and belittled. I wish I had had the internet. Had the sources to find my own info and present my own case - but as noted that is usually quickly shut down.

I never attend any more. If I did I would want to finesse a way to drop just enough info to make a point, or inspire someone to want to look further without crossing the line to where I was just considered "that crazy lady with all the out there questions".

Actually, probably more than once. In YW or Sunday School, I always held firm to the belief that it wasn't good enough to say that you can't do something "Because I'm Mormon" That was never a valid reason for me. I argued this with MANY YW leaders. Keeping the Sabbath holy? I'd tell my friends Sunday was a day for family. No drinking? I didn't like not being in control of my mind and my body (not to mention all the calories!) No smoking? I have asthma and would like to keep the lungs I have. No coffee? Don't like the taste, I'll order hot chocolate instead. No sex before marriage? I wanted to know that I was in a safe committed relationship before I had sex (didn't make it to marriage, but that was OK)

My nevermo friends were much more accepting of this than they were to my mo friends that used the "I'm a Mormon" excuse. I was NEVER pressured to try anything, even into my early 20s. People had the attitude "Okay that's cool" and lets move on. Maybe I just had an exceptional group of friends, but I really think knowing why I chose to do/not to do some of those things made it easy to say no rather than feeling like I was missing out on something.

The men were making fun of the scripture in Isaiah 3:16

"Moreover the LORD saith, Because the daughters of Zion are haughty,
and walk with stretched forth necks and wanton eyes,
walking and mincing as they go,
and making a tinkling with their feet"



I asked the "priesthood" to show us ladies what a "mincing walk" looked like....no volunteers...sigh...:D

As I have mentioned before, as a GD teacher I asked the class what I thought would be a simple question: If we are the one trtue church, believing that Christ is its head, whey do we not talk or preach much about him the way other churches do? The responses were the triggers for my leaving. Sometimes the toughest questions are the most simple questions.

What were some of the responses?

If you ask 'those' questions, any pretense of civility soon Leaves the Building.

Mormons are Belongers, not Believers.

any challenge to things taught is an automatic threat.


What I found in a Mainstream Christian church is that the vintictive 'God' of the O.Testament is out of the loop, so to speak.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 05/22/2012 12:28PM by guynoirprivateeye.

"Mormons are Belongers, not Believers."

Well-put. I can tell in the Mormon community I live in that their religion is mostly a social status to them. They seem to take the religion for granted probably because they don't really believe in it. Otherwise, why would they?



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 05/22/2012 02:46PM by happyexmormon.

The overall response was that it didn't matter very much and most did not care. As I've shared before, the two most memorable answers were: "Other churches talk about him all the time because that's all they've got. We've got priesthhood, genealogy, etc., etc." Another was: "Oh, I don't come to church for that...I come to learn how to bring up my children."

I asked why do we wear bright yellow 'helping hands' vests and invite local media to publicize when we do service projects, when Jesus taught about acts of service should be done in secret etc.

Interestingly a few other members agreed that this had bugged them too. The answer given was to promote the church and bring it out of obscurity and show we are Christians.

I could have followed this up with some further difficult questions but I bit my tongue instead.

Every little seed sown helps.....