In another post a poster stated "Anointed One is yet another of the giants who walk among us...".

I thought we left this kind of view point behind in the church.

Please don't get me wrong, I love this forum and vey much enjoy reading the posts. You have helped me immeasurably over the last seven years as I have tried to unravel 30 years of being a TBM. This board has changed my life in more ways than I can tell you and I am very grateful.

It's just the giants comment that I am struggling with. If Annointed One is a giant does that mean there are little people on this board? Are some people more significant, thereby are others insignificant or of less significance?

Can I emphasise this isn't about Annointed One. I have met Tom on a number of occasions and have listened to him tell his account of his second annointing. Without doubt I adore him and not only have I enjoyed his wisdom and unique insight but he's great fun too. This really isn't about Tom.

It's just that I had my fill of Mormon Royalty. Do we have Exmormon Royalty?

That idea of giants among us does sound very Mormony - as if these select individuals were among the noble and great ones in their pre-existent Mormon lives. I completely agree that no one on this board is more important than anyone else based on former church positions. But those former positions do give different life experiences, which give us all more information on how the LDS church works - from the second anointing to former ward clerks sharing information on how finances are handled. Knowledge is power, and knowledge about the inner workings of the LDS church can help us to demystify the experience and see it for what it really is.
Also, these "giants among us" have connections to the Mormon royalty that the rest of us don't. Jeffrey Holland wouldn't have responded to a letter from an exmormon unless he was formerly a personal friend.
Some posters will still have that Mormon perspective of hierarchy based on years of conditioning. We all have some kind of emotional baggage from our Mormon experience. Most of us, I think, just recognize former Mormon elite as one of us, except with additional insights and experiences to share, and possibly having had a more difficult experience in leaving the LDS religion due to their prominence.

"In another post a poster stated "Anointed One is yet another of the giants who walk among us...".

I thought we left this kind of view point behind in the church."

Not being mormon, I don't have the same viewpoint on this that ex mos do. I think A.O. getting the 2nd annointing shows just how high up pne can be in the mormon church and still leave when they learn the real truth

I agree that there is a lot of "mormony" to it. At the same time, it's just so very human. Every nation, culture, tribe, profession, hobby group, whatever, has some individuals that are more respected and revered than others. Not everyone likes or knows about Aaron Rodgers but his name means something among football fans and he has a certain status there. Not everyone likes or knows about Children of Bodom but ajhart and plenty others would recognize their status. Sexismyreligion said it well; it's not about being better or worse, right or wrong, it's about our experiences.

I don't have a problem with calling Annointed One a giant. He had his experiences that qualify him in some sense to be an 'expert' in some areas. I would have never known about 2nd annointing if it wasn't for his account -- a single woman would never qualify for such a blessing (insert sarcastic icon). It doesn't qualify him in all other areas and I don't see anyone claiming it does.

As a nevermo, I have noticed that many of the exmos on this board do tend to jump on relatively common human experiences and connect them to Mormonism. I think coming out of such a deep indoctrination (or at least cultural immersion) tends to make y'all rather sensitive about getting involved again.

Mormonism employs a lot of methods of control. Some rather underhanded (holding your family/eternity/both under hostage through implied, displaced threats), some relatively innocent (peer pressure has been in use for both positive and negative causes since the dawn of humanity).

I'm nearly 6'6". I think I've been called a giant. And I walk.

(this was meant as sarcasm to point out that we shouldn't take ourselves so seriously.)



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 05/26/2012 12:24PM by Jesus Smith.

Cute so!

I am nearly 6'6" too. off by less than a foot

(speaking metaphorically, of course) some who have left the church have attracted a lot more lightning strikes than others because of their former prominence inside the church.

I would not want to be the target of all the hate-mail, vicious rumor-mongering, and harrassment that those people attract from both Mormons who know them personally and Mormons who don't. I wish them well.

Really, if you want to leave Mormonism behind, the sort of passive-aggressive shot you just engaged in would be a good place to begin.

There's no mention of "royalty" in my original post, and it amounts to a "subtle control move" (with the unwarranted use of that "royalty" strawman) where on one level you're attempting to impose your agenda on the the rest of the board.

Growing up essentially--and technically--a non-Mormon (the only one in my immediate family who wasn't baptized), the idea of a "cult of personality" around LDS leadership is a foreign one to me. Mostly, since my parents and maternal grandparents--and all their children--were a group of intellectually inclined Jack Mormons, LDS leaders were often the objects of a bit of derision.

[insert big long Cabbie speech about black-and-white thinking as well. Add Ed Abbey's statement about the LDS Church and its culture: "Nothing that ridiculous could be all bad."]

Now I'll just offer an invitation to see things through my eyes. As he noted above, Jesus Smith is half a foot taller than I am...

Neither of us, however, comes up to Will Bagley's chin...

I don't know about a giant, but at least a brave soul and unafraid to speak his mind. I will just say gutsy!

I am glad Tom found his way to the truth!

Everyone comes here with their own perpsectives and tales to tell. We're all in this together.

The "royalty" complaint is petty, perjorative and distracting to the overall, mutual RFM effort to expose the Cult and empower the people.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 05/26/2012 11:29AM by steve benson.

I agree with this, however, it's never you, or Annointed One, or SLDrone, or RPackham, or any other prominent exmo's who elevate themselves to royal status, it's usually others who are pretty awestruck that tend to make try to make a royalty label stick.

It's a combination of unique experience, intellect and personality that makes some exmos stand out more than others.

It should not be that way for sure. But if one has different experiences that the ave. Mormon can not have then it does make it an interesting topic to hear about. I say be grateful for all tales of all the Mormon experiences one can have regardless of their former position. This place is a learning site. But I do agree that one should not act as though the person having that unusual and "treasured by Mormons" experience be placed in a more revered position on this board. Just hear them out.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 05/26/2012 11:33AM by honestone.

Giant among us refers to a great person. A person of kindness, wisdom, and courage.

And anointed one certainly showed all of those attributes in his conversation with Jeff Holland.

Also +1 What Steve said

I truly value the vastly differing experiences and insights that everyone brings to the RfM table and am in no way suggesting otherwise.

I am simply asking, although our experiences and perspectives are different, doesn't everyone have an equal place at the table?

I agree we are all in this together, which is why I don't think comments suggesting there are 'giants amongst us' necessarily supports that.

"All animals are equal, but some animals are more equal than others".

-- George Orwell, "Animal Farm."

Yikes. I'm 5 feet tall. I guess that makes me a little worker bee type. LOL

It's ok to compliment someone. It doesn't have to diminish everyone else.

+1 That's the sage thing I was trying to think of Heresy.

We do have ex mo royalty on the board. Those who were the most valiant Mormons are the most ex Mormon valiants here. I think everyone is what makes the board awesome. But I do enjoy learning from those who held the higher positions and find it encouraging when they have the courage to put it all down and walk away.
Also former missionaries. I love their stories
Those who were abused and prevailed, also encouraging
Helpless people who need help to leave. Love them too.
BYU Students doubting. Who doesn't love those posts?



Edited 3 time(s). Last edit at 05/26/2012 01:01PM by suckafoo.

Amanita muscaria is among the means known to invoke the feeling of greatness.

I'll take two please.

The original statement was just cabbie being cabbie. He uses metaphor in casual conversation. I'm sure he was just giving a compliment the way he gives them.

I no longer see anyone as being inherently better than another person, but the compliment for bravery--which is deserved--does not bother me.

I don't think it stratifies us. I think that is what this board is about; support, shared we experiences and compliments that are long overdue. Anyway, no harm no foul, Holland is the common foe.

I'm just large in girth

Narcissism, and fawning over "authorities" is ingrained in morgbots from birth, and it stays with a great number of them when they leave. It is their way of life. They were raised to think in terms of hierarchy. As usual it's the royal good old boys who protest that we are all of value, trying to appear egalitarian, deny any problems or attack anyone suggesting a problem. Actions speak louder than words. It's like MittMo trying to look like one of the people or the GOP *MEN* telling women the war on women is not real. Condescending, hypocritical, fake....

I'm 6'4" and wider than most..and I've been known to scare dogs and small children...

There is something to be said about stature within the church, and being ex-mo in my opinion.

I sacrificed a lot for the church, and it was somewhat hard to leave. But others sacrificed much more while in the church, and gave up a lot more when leaving.

The highest I ever got in esteemed callings was EQ instructor. That is bottom rung, just above scouting callings. I would never be EQ Pres material. I would never be Bishopric material, much less Stake Pres.

I wasn’t adored by hundreds who saw me as a spiritual giant, and received the ego strokes that such adoration brings. The most I got ego wise in the church was people asking for copies of my Sac. Meeting talks, and “great lesson” type comments. I wasn’t adored by hundreds. I was adored by less than ten, if you call such things adoration.

When I left, I left behind the same support networks and friends that the least of us also left behind. And that was a price to pay. But I never had in my future what some had status wise, and I didn’t leave behind as much as others did.

While having a hierarchy of ex-mos is somewhat silly, recognizing that some turned their backs on a lot more than I did, and that turning your back on all that took a lot of guts/honesty etc. is warranted.

The poster in question gave up more than I, or anyone in my family or extended family will ever have the possibility of giving up. Cognitive dissonance was difficult enough at my level. It is so much more to overcome at their level. They had a lot of motivation for their minds to keep them stupid cognitive dissonance wise.

Should they be worshiped as royalty here? Of course not. But it seems that recognizing their situation, and the difficulty therein, seems warranted.