I am a never mo; married to a mormon. I'm fascianted by the faith system..
I mentioned how I have read taht many former LDS memebers are shunned and denied the chance to see a realtive's temple Wedding; as well as banning never mos from mormon weddings..

My TBM wife told me that "there is a method for non Temple recommended Mormon to see part of a Mormon wedding".

I replied: "does it involve them paying money, and or pledging loyalty to the church again. no answer.
Whats the scoop.?

They can observe the "ring ceremony" after the temple wedding. Basically, the bride and groom come out of the temple and exchange wedding rings in the parking lot or sidewalk outside. That's the only way. If you don't have a recommend you don't go inside.

"Basically, the bride and groom come out of the temple and exchange wedding rings in the parking lot or sidewalk outside."

Parking lot or a sidewalk???????

How roMANtic...(sarcasm)

The couple of times I've seen a ring exchange, it occurred at the area of the reception. It was still pretty lame and nowhere near the joy and celebration of such a special day. Half the Mormons didn't even bother sitting down for it.

The straight answer is your wife is wrong.

Possible things she means:
- A ring exchange ceremony can be done outside of the temple. A separate reception can be done outside of the temple.

- A couple can get married outside of the temple but then they have to wait a full year before being "sealed" in the temple. However, if you live somewhere like England where the law requires you to be married civilly first then you are not subject to this.

- You can sit in the waiting room until the wedding is over and then stand around on the temple grounds and have your picture taken as part of the wedding party.

I've never heard of a non-LDS person, or a non-tithe payer, or a tithe-payer that is "sinning" (i.e. drinking, porn, imbibing coffee etc.), or an inactive Mormon or an ex-Mormon get to see a Mormon temple marriage. Maybe a very liberal bishop would let a person who paid a LOT of tithing in to see his child marry if he was "sinning", if the person promised not to sin any more or if the person lied about it. But still, if you are considered unworthy in any way, you can't see any part of the Mormon temple wedding. The only thing you can do is wait outside for pictures or maybe take part in a meaningless ring ceremony during the reception. But the ring ceremonies are discouraged.

If your LDS person wants you at their actual wedding, they have to marry in the chapel, which is very depressing because many of the clergy try to make it as awful as possible to discourage others from marrying outside the temple. At least when there are two worthy Mormons marrying who could have married in the temple. Or you can marry in another church, in your backyard, whatever. But then you are considered unworthy to marry in the temple for one full year, to punish you. My SIL eloped and then had to wait a year to get sealed in the temple to her husband and have her children sealed to him (it was a second marriage for both).

Bishops don't care that much how much tithing you pay - they don't get to keep any of it - there budget is based on sacrament meeting attendance. Even if a bishop let someone through you still have a second interview with a member of the stake presidency. You could easily lie your way through both interviews.

Nonsense - they care a LOT because they have to report the money their ward brings in to their higher ups. If your ward attendance is the same but the money is down, you'll get told off and told to start talking to your ward members about tithing. If your ward attendance goes down and your tithed income goes down, you will have to explain to your superiors why you aren't doing a good job of bishop and why you are losing people. Plenty of people have been denied access to a temple wedding because they are not paid up on their tithing. These can be faithful, worthy, active members who just got behind in their tithing and weren't able to qualify for a temple recommend because they couldn't come up with the money they "owed" in back tithing. I know a number of people this happened to - including my home teachers growing up. He ended up as stake president but once, years before that, he made some bad investments and lost the money he'd set aside for tithing, but invested hoping to make money AND pay tithing with that money. He got his recommend yanked for a whole year and so did his wife, because it was shared income. They couldn't go to the temple even for themselves, simply because of money. Bishops care because if you don't pay, they look bad and if you don't pay, if they are the power-crazed type, it's an opportunity to wave around their giant priesthood.

Of course, if you can lie your way through both interview, you are in the clear to attend the temple.

She also stated a person does not have to pay tithing to go to heaven. That good non-mormons can go to heaven.
She didnt answer when I asked what happens to apostates who quit the LDS church.

I asked her why whenever she utters the word "apostate", it has a nasty hissing sound with annuciations like when someone looking at the tv news, might say: "rapist", "serial killer", and "pedophile,"

I would agree with her on this one that someone does not have to pay tithing to go to heaven.

There are 2 ways this is true.

1. The telestial, terrestial & celestial kingdoms are all considered heaven. So even Hitler will go to "heaven".

2. Someone would not need to pay tithing to get to the Celestial kingdom. Mormonism is really "fuzzy" on what is required to get to heaven. There is stuff in D&C 76 that says you have to be valiant, etc. but that is rarely referenced in modern Mormonism. Basically Mormon doctrine is that to get to the Celestial kingdom you have to do 5 things:
1. Faith
2. Repentance
3. Baptism
4. Receive the Holy Ghost
5. Endure to the End (whatever that means)

The Mormon church also teaches that the judgement doesn't happen until the end of the millennium and that you sit around in a place called spirit prison until then and can progress/repent until then. In fact if you accept a proxy baptism you are released from spirit prison and go to spirit paradise.

There are contradictory statements other places in Mormon scripture but the Mormon church's doctrine of salvation is actually a lot like evangelical Christianity - except Mormon's also let you accept Christ after you die. The whole judgement of who gets judged into which kingdom is really fuzzy but the expectation is that Christ kind of works as your lawyer to get you into the highest kingdom he can possibly get you in.

She denies mandatory tithing is essential to full membership in the church.?? Weird stuff.

There are about 15 questions you have to answer to receive a temple recommend.

One of those questions is if you pay a full and honest tithing?

If you answer yes, you qualify, if you answer no you cannot receive a temple recommend.

However you can be a "full member" without holding a temple recommend.

or she rejects the LDS idea that Mormon 'heaven'— meaning to live with God and your family forever— requires Temple ordinances (endowments, sealings) plus enduring to the end and being a faithful, worthy Mormon.

Both the Temple and being faith/worthy as defined by Mormonism requires paying a full tithe.

Also, I have never heard of a way for non-LDS to observe or be part of a Temple wedding/sealing. Again I think your wife is either misinformed or is involved in some significant rationalization.

I know that one could fake a temple recommend before the barcodes were added a few years ago. (I don't know if there's a well-ish known way to do it now with the barcodes or not.) Obviously, one would have to be cautious and "try to blend in," but it was an option.

And I think, we don't actually have to do anything at all while alive to go to heaven since we can make up for it and repent like crazy after we die. They teach that it's much harder that way and one shouldn't count on it as a first-line option, but that we can.

The only way I know of that someone could do that is if they either borrowed or stole someones recommend.

How long have you been married?
Sounds like your wife wants you to become a Mormon.

Do you really want to pay 10% of your income to a dubious "church" and spend all your spare time working for the cult ?

Dear wife, that sounds really interesting.
Can you explain to me which part of the ceremony I can get to see for free and where abouts within the Temple building I get to see it?

Whilst we are on the subject, why did your first Prophet marry those women who already had living husbands? Does the Church expect you to marry the Prophet or another Mormon as well as me?



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 06/07/2012 04:48AM by Stumbling.

The issue of “full member” is debatable.

If you don’t pay tithing ie 10% of your income you don’t get a temple recommend. Without a temple recommend you can’t take out your temple endowments. One could argue you’re not a “full member” of the Church until you are endowed in the temple.

One possible exception around this is when part-member families exist and the non-member tells the member that no tithing is to be paid. In those cases, a bishop can choose to count the member even though they don’t pay tithing as a full tithe payer because their non-member spouse has forbade paying tithing. In this particle case the bishop can give them a temple recommend and the member then can get their temple endowment.

Since temple marriages are performed "only" in the temple one cannot “see” a temple marriage without first holding a temple recommend and be an endowed member themselves. There are no exceptions.

Anything that takes place outside the temple is NOT a temple marriage.

You can go into the temple and sit in the waiting room, but you don't get past the front desk. Sometimes ring ceremonies are held later in the chapel.

Easiest way is to lie about everything in the interview that you need to lie about. This includes tithing. If the bishop persists, just claim losses exceed income resulting in no tithing due.

Really, the whole temple wedding scheme is a fraud. It also excludes anyone under age to get endowed no matter how "worthy". IMO children should witness weddings.

Actually, it involves pledging EVERYTHING to the Mormon church - even your own lives if necessary.

The "ring ceremony" was a sham and the bishop that performed it went on and on about how it wasn't anything special ... making sure everyone present knew that if you weren't with them in the temple you were not "at the wedding".

I hate the f*($@% mormon cult.

As others have said, she is probably talking about a ring exchange (it is NOT a ceremony).

Here's what the 2008 Church Handbook of Instructions says under the heading "Exchanging Rings after a Temple Marriage":

"Exchanging rings is not part of the temple marriage ceremony. However, couples may exchange rings after the ceremony in the room where the ceremony takes place. To avoid confusion with the marriage ceremony, couples should not exchange rings at any other time or place in a temple or on temple grounds. However, after their temple marriage, a couple may exchange rings at locations other than the temple. If such an exchange is made, the circumstances should be consistent with the dignity of their temple marriage. The exchange should not appear to replicate any part of the marriage ceremony, and the couple should not exchange vows."


My convert DD married in an LDS temple and NONE of her family who had loved and supported her all her life were allowed to attend because we are considered unworthy by the LDS church.

Mormon were condescending about our exclusion and didn't understand why we were upset because, after all, the temple ceremony has no importance or significance if you aren't mormon. So, when my convert DD was planning the ring exchange (she had been told it would appease us, didn't work), I suggested that the Mormons who attended the temple be asked to wait outside until it was over - after all, the ring exchange has no importance or significance to them, right? DD was aghast at how RUDE that would be.....she didn't get the irony.

The ring exchange was made up to make Mormons feel better about their own exclusionary, arrogant behavior. Yep, the ring exchange, AKA the booby prize for us unworthies and everyone loves getting the booby prize!

Just to be clear, I have no desire to enter the temple. Being in the temple is NOT the point. Being present for my DD's special, unique moment was what I wanted. Being present when a new son joined our family. If my daughter had said she wanted to get married on a beach in Hawaii but only Mormons were invited to attend, I would have been just as devastated.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 06/07/2012 10:42AM by caedmon.

I have a dear never-mo friend whose daughter is living with her TBM Dad right in the middle of the southern Alberta Moridor (Magrath)...and the young lady just got baptized. I don't know if her Mom knows yet that she'll be barred from attending her only daughter's wedding. I imagine that the peer pressure from her classmates in high school to enter the Cult would have been overwhelming. I just feel bad for her Mom because I know what's coming....pounce on a RM...get married and start pumping out babies...sad...

Because I can't know what is in her heart or mind, I won't accuse your TBM wife of lying. She may be misinformed. However, I suspect she is "minimizing:" not acknowledging the Church's stance on a point when it is uncomfortable until it is too late to change plans.

The Church is absolute on these points: nobody can attend a temple service without a recommend; all in attendance at a sealing must already be endowed. Anyone saying anything else is either misinformed, minimizing or lying.