I just read the entry in the CHI about annotations on membership names in LD$ church records.

Apparently we should not be requesting "name removal" but "name annotation."

>6.13.4 Records with Annotations

In areas authorized by the First Presidency, an annotation may be placed on the record of a member whose conduct has threatened the well-being of other persons or of the Church.

An annotation helps the bishop protect Church members and others from such individuals.
When a bishop receives an annotated membership record, he follows the instructions in the annotation.

Church headquarters will automatically annotate a person's membership record in any of the following situations:

1. The stake president or bishop submits a Report of Church Disciplinary Action form showing that the person was disciplined for incest, sexual offense against or serious physical abuse of a child, plural marriage, an elective transsexual operation, repeated homosexual activities (by adults), predatory conduct, or embezzlement of Church funds or property.

2. The stake president or bishop submits written notification that the person has been criminally convicted for one of these transgressions.

3. The stake president and bishop jointly submit written notification that the person has committed one of these transgressions before or after excommunication or name removal.
In addition, the stake president and bishop may jointly recommend that a person's membership record be annotated for other conduct that threatens the well-being of other persons or of the Church.

In all cases, an annotation on a membership record is removed only with First Presidency approval upon request of the stake president.



It does make sense to try to somehow keep predators, etc. from innocent teens/children. Annotating those names is a good thing.

But in No. 3 above, it states "...before or after excommunication or name removal."

So, if you're excommunicated, or if you request that your name be removed, it's not removed. It's just "annotated."

It makes people feel good....
It empowers them back....
Nothing wrong with the action itself. I did it, would never waste my time on it again.

An annotated record still tries to follow you when you relocate. A name removal does have a record in church headquarters in case someone tries to come back secretly (for some strange reason, I have an uncle who tried this), but it does not follow you. So, in my book, name removal is still better.

I have a hard time believing that TSCC is organized enough to keep track of whether or not someone was a member before. Why?

A. They are desparate for converts

B. They do not have a very good track record of keeping track of the dead people they like to baptize

I'm pretty sure no record is sent to local wards for non/ex members.

However if the local ward leadership knows you, they will put you in the database and on the local ward list.

So are you still counted when they send out the yearly "we have 15 bazillion members" reports?

Who cares? What it means is that they no longer have any authority or power over me. They can't discipline me. I am no longer a member. Any covenants, promises, etc. I made are officially null and void. Most importantly to me, I have no responsibility to them in any way - implied, inferred or otherwise.

I'm in their database. Fine with me.

The point of Name removal is that you are removed from their database. They still keep a secret copy, but you are longer in the main database after name removal.

My understanding is that you remain in their main database but that your membership status is changed to nonmember?

Name removal and Name annotation are two different things.

Name removal takes the member's name out of the list of members.

Name annotation makes notes on the records of people who are still members (who have NOT had their name removed).

I thought so too Richard.

But then I read the phrase in paragraph 3 above:

>The stake president and bishop jointly submit written notification that the person has committed one of these transgressions BEFORE OR AFTER EXCOMMUNICATION OR NAME REMOVAL.

The SP or bishop could not annotate a name if it were truly removed. They'd HAVE to keep it SOMEwhere in order to annotate it.

They must have always been keeping an annotated list of excommunicated and name-removed members so that they can evaluate the case should the person want to be re-baptized.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 06/07/2012 08:00PM by PapaKen.

I'm an IT professional by trade and I'm of the opinion that the Church never actually deletes you from their database. Most likely they simply change the "status" of your membership record.

You're probably correct....nothing EVER gets completely deleted anymore does it?

In 2003, I was still able to speak to a man about my excommunication from 1978 and the details such as dates and people involved with the 3 denials for sealing cancellation. I made request with my exH during SWK years, ETB years, and GBH years. The man had assisted me in in the early 90's with information when my exH again wished to try for a sealing cancellation. This was not Greg Dodge, who I also have spoken to over the years. They are all, quite plesant to deal with. The man, oddly enough was also named Greg. He would give me dates, of everything, my name and all notations of denials, and items in the record. My record showed my membership record as excommunicated and the reason. My surname is still the same as my exH I was sealed to. Even though we are civilly divorced, 1978.

This man (the other Greg) was once the confidential info guy (decades ago) the membership records people would transfer me to. This happened when I said I was excommunicated and needed to speak to someone about sealing information. He had changed departments long ago...at least the last 15 years I spoke to him. Not sure his title after he left confidential membership records. He is the person that explained to me the way Mormonism has excommunicated MEMBERS records forever, in case they want to become rebaptised and when worthy.... have a "restoration of blessings". He explained info about the CHI stating a name removal cancels the blessings of sealing, and what the diff' is between "blessing of sealing" and actually having "sealing cancellation". He said there had been a lot of problems with confused people thinking falsely that sealing was cancelled, when it is only the Office of the First Presidency that can cancel a sealing. I could tell he was not pleased with that wording regarding name removal.

I am still shown as "sealed" and "excommunicated" to my exH, however; I personally remain in some (their words) suspended status until I am rebaptised. He also explained this can be done post death no sooner than a year, by family. Sealings are considered eternal, discipline is temporal. I think that is the terminology he gave me. I took notes, but they are packed in a chest and don't have my first cup of coffee in me ;)

The process of requesting a sealing cancellation had to begin with the local bishop in 2003 (in the 80's I walked a letter into the COB and that was my process). I remember speaking to this man when he returned from lunch and had to wait for a computer to get online after the paperwork from paper files went into computers. I can not imagine just how many people have moved and processed my excommunicated "membership" record in 34 years. I suppose it would be noted if I was reported by someone to be polygamous, incarcerated for murder, or some horrid thing like sex outside of marriage;)

One thing I know. Members remain in the system, and are updated based on things like sealing cancellation requests and denials. I also know my present exMo husband personally requested his own excommunication, prior to the late 1980's change that made name removal a recognized process. My husband had no idea if the Mormon's ever followed through or kept a record, and left at that time to join a different religion. I asked him to call about two years ago to find out if they did ex him since he never went to any excommunication trial. Yes, husband was excommunicated and it happened in 1983.

Edit: My husband and I were just discussing this post and he added info. He was not an active member, but one of those baptised, inactive kids in Utah, if you know what I mean. He said he requested name removal because of that new religion directing him to get out of Mormonism before baptism. He indeed, was called and told he needed to speak with the bishopric. (So, I assume this was a court of love.) He said he was asked to leave the room while they prayed about it. The men then called him back into the room. He does not remember any words of excommunication and thought he was just removed from the records, as he requested...until I asked him to call. He also said they sent him flowers and said he was welcome to return if he ever wished. Any former bishop care to weigh in?


Records are kept. I think most old timers here know that. They also have info added, even excommunicated or name removed "members". This is again, in case pigs fly and the person exed or name removed wishes to be rebaptised. If not, they are kept so they can be dead dunked no sooner than one year post death. I am positive I will be dead dunked one year and one day post death.

Charming cult.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 06/08/2012 10:37AM by wings.

I couldn't give a $hit if my name is on some database in SLC or not....it's of zero importance to me...

Did any of you notice that embezzling church funds or property is considered by the church to be every bit as bad as serious sexual or physical abuse of a child, or predatory behavior, or even repeated homosexual activity ?



Other forms of theft are OK, but don't you steal a single dollar from TSCC!

I don't give a shit if they have my name in a database. I have a letter from them and postal documents of my letter to them. What I have will hold up in court that I am not a member of their organization. That is all I wanted, their letter. I resigned and am free. They cannot own me. I'll sue their ass if they try.