Today I found the following in Teachings of the Prophet Joseph Smith (pp. 314-315 in my 1976 edition):

"It has gone abroad that I proclaimed myself no longer a prophet. I said it last Sabbath ironically: I supposed you would all understand."

You get that, guys? He only renounced his prophetic mantle IRONICALLY. Afterwards he got one of those mustache finger tattoos and put on his aviators.

It seems that, at some point around July 23rd 1843, JS said that he was no longer a prophet and that Hyrum would take over as head of the church (p. 318). Unfortunately I couldn't find the original sermon referred to in the above quote. TBMs often like to say that JS would have given up at some point if he were a false prophet, that his tenacity is evidence of his divine calling. But here's an example of him doing just that, even if only for a moment.

Does anybody know more about this incident? Around this time JS would have been in the thick of pretty intense opposition (John C. Bennett, William Law, Emma), and it makes sense that he would have been tempted to pack it in altogether. But I've never heard anything about it outside of this TPJS reference.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 12/12/2010 12:42AM by mateo.

He wasn't packing it in. According to the histories I have read, in the last year of his life he had created two secret quorums in the church-the Church of the Firstborn (or the Holy Order), and the Council of Fifty. These consisted of trusted people he had brought into polygamy, and they were becoming the actual church leadership, unbeknownst to the mass of members.

He himself claimed he was stepping down from the church presidency (though not from his "prophetic mantle", or his priesthoods). He had himself anointed spiritual and physical king over all the earth, and fancied himself to become the president of the USA and eventually, acknowledged world king. He still claimed to outrank the church president.

If it's true that he was stepping down as president of the church (although he does say "prophet", not "president") only to claim a higher position, why reverse course immediately afterwards? He certainly didn't back down from his theocratic ambitions even after revising his statement. So why say, for only a few days, that he's stepping down?



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 12/12/2010 12:40PM by mateo.

that flip flopping, lying & denial, disavowal, obfuscation, making things up at the spur of the moment, & torturous abuse of the language are the MORmON way. I have no doubt that Joe got in a mood and threatened to quit as prophet as a taunt to the members or whoever. Even today The mainstream church pulls these kinds of chain yanking litmus tests to see what they can get away with, or not, like that prop 8 thing, & it did NOT go so well for them on that one, packer had to prove it with his latest talk.

Joe constantly taunted the church members with his FALSE claims of revelation, him versus them. He claimed if a person believed firmly enough they would have the mysteries of god revealed to them. That was the intial taunt, it was Joe daring others to try it. When a person thought they might have had a revelation, at best it was never as good as Joes & it could be completely disallowed by another of Joe's revelations if Joe did not approve or like the content. Joe would always be the revelation master by his own design. only a MORmON would fall for this ploy!

I like what you have found. The other one I like is Joe claiming that Muhammed was a true prophet, undoubtedly done to help Joe seem more plausible as a true prophet. HOWEVER, the Koran says that Christ is not divine, & if a person has any recollection of the shrill rhetoric of the BOM & its insistence that Christ IS divine & that anyone who says otherwise is just SATANIC & EVIL, then we have caught Joe in another grand screw up of his own making.

there is video of Nibley acknowledging that Joe did this.
the MORmON scholars have to know the implications of this,
they throw a fit & get it blocked everytime it gets posted in public venues. The MORmON elite suck the blood of the rank & file members who let themselves go on not getting concerned enough to get to the truth of these matters. LDS Inc is simply criminal in nature, not divne!

I was just spouting off the top of my head, Mateo. Don't accept what I posted as fact. It's been a while since I've studied this topic. Check those facts!

As no one else had responded, I just wanted to toss out some leads...

I'm a pretty skeptical guy, and I don't take much at face value these days.

Thanks for the input. I know I'm quite possibly making more of this incident than there is, but from my perspective it's plausible that JS, while making-it-up-as-he-goes-along, made a statement about packing it in that he had to explain away later. I don't recall seeing anything about it in Rough Stone Rolling (lost my copy in a move or I'd check), and I'm surprised that none of the usual biographies or histories mention it, even if in passing.

Oh well.

Have you heard the joke about the hipster?

What is a "hipster" in today's jargon? Is it something different from what a hipster was in the fifties?

The modern hipster is generally a trustfund kid or as I refer to them Trustafarians. They can generally be seen masquerading as working class or homeless people. I wish I was making this up but I am not.

They believe they are being ironic by socializing with those of the normal masses, all the while living a very good life. There are several books on this absurd culture and their uselessness in society. I have a passionte hatred for these fine folks. ERRRR....I have to stop thinking about them, or I might explode.

cool, thanks for that.

Trustafarians, cool. We used to call these types "trust fund junkies", cuz they thought it was cool to be addicted and squalid. There used to be a lot of them following surf around.

Don't let your head explode! :)

If you want to learn more and are unafraid of violations against Godwin's Law, I highly recommend the following:

www.hipsterhitler.com

Dammit. Sorry about the double-post.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 12/12/2010 06:04PM by mateo.