I really scotch my head when I read that ex-mormons who have had their eyes opened and have left the LDS church end up joining another church. Do they not realize that in America, all the major religions have Masonic origins just like the Mormon church? And no, Joseph Smith didn't first learn about Masonry in Nauvoo. His family was steeped in it for generations. His intention was to start a new blue lodge, not a church. Joseph's beliefs of temples, plural marriage, garments were from Masonic influences growing up in the Masonic oriented Smith family. (Book: The Widow's Son: The Esoteric History of the Prophet Joseph Smith And the Orgin of Mormonism / authored by my friend Kerry O'Boren / one of my favorites exposing JS available from Amazon). JS was a borrower. He borrowed the ideals of the word of wisdom and the united order from Sydney Ridgon. He made things his by saying he got a revelation about them after he borrowed them. He really didn't have any new ideas of his own.

God, a god or any other being from any spiritual dimension has not called upon any man to be his spokesperson. A careful analysis of the book of Genesis talking about the sons of god taking the daughters of man as wifes should be your red flag for further investigation. These gods that came from the sky were no gods. Only mortals with technology that awed mankind. In order to control mankind, they set up religion. Read the old testament and the use of "fear of god" to keep them all in line. Who were the prophets? They were the offspring of these humanoid aliens and earthly women spoken of in Genesis. They were the spokesperson for their fathers. The self appointed gods. Elohim is plural meaning gods. While they did teach mankind things like writing, agriculture and living socially in cities, they used the fear of destruction by god as a means to keep them in line. The gods are gone but men have stepped up in their place using the same fraud to control people and make a nice life for themselves financially.

So jumping from Mormonism into any other religion is still fraud. No religion has keys to salvation. Salvation to what? For Mormons, becoming a god. The only ones having eternal sex.(LOL)

If I asked you who it was that was born from a virgin birth, performed miracles, raised the dead, walked on water, died on a cross only to be resurrected 3 days later, who am I talking about? Christ? No. Krishna who lived 1500 years before Jesus. In fact, there have been many men that predate Jesus that have the same story. Hmmm. (Book: The Worlds 16 Crucified Saviors / Amazon) No man died for my sins, your sins or anyone's sins. The great earthquake that supposedly occurred at the death of Christ? Historians in Jerusalem at that time don't mention it. Books written about the life and ministry of Christ were written over a hundred years later. He was a fiction based on earlier savior fictions.

You don't have one life to prove yourself. You hopefully learn from your mistakes if not in this life, perhaps in the next hundreds of lifetimes until you get things straight. Once you learn your lessons, you graduate. Everyone eventually learns what they need to know even if someone takes more lifetimes than another. We all graduate. We all make it. And we all graduate at the same level.

One of the best books that guides my spiritual life is "The Journey of Souls" written by a PhD hypnotherapist who does life regressions. Taking people back into the spirit world, he was able to get information, the same information and details from thousands of clients. Learn what is real and what is not. You've just forgotten. Read it. Enjoy your life. Make mistakes. Learn from them.

Don't get stuck in another church/religion where you're controlled by the fear of a god. Manipulated financially by some slick church leader.

As a friend told me who left the LDS Church before me said: I left the Church and got a 10% pay raise and a 2 day weekend to enjoy. Amen!

I only know one person who left Mormonism to join another religious congregation. Everybody else either professes no strong belief in God, or else simply doesn't care if a God exists or not. Most tend towards the latter, in my experience. Whether you call it agnosticism or not I don't know.

Maybe I should pop some corn

+1

doc21hansen Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I really scotch my head when I read that
> ex-mormons who have had their eyes opened and have
> left the LDS church end up joining another church.
> Do they not realize that in America, all the major
> religions have Masonic origins just like the
> Mormon church?
...


An ex-LDS friend of mine eventually joined the
Unitarian-Universalist Church. He tells me that it
has been a good experience for him -- that it has
exposed him to a wide range of philosophical ideas
and has caused him to work on commendable projects
in his community with atheists, agnostics, Christians,
etc. I think he would disagree with your conclusions.

At least he feels his life has changed for the better.

Ud

The fact that your friend joined the Unitarian church is interesting in one particular respect: the fact that Unitarians, like the LDS church, reject the Trinitarian concept of Christianity.

When, during the Protestant Reformation, the Bible was translated from Latin into native languages, several individuals independently rejected the idea of the Trinity. Unitarianism developed separately in Poland, Transylvania (among Hungarians), and England.

politicaljunkie Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> The fact that your friend joined the Unitarian
> church is interesting in one particular respect:
> the fact that Unitarians, like the LDS church,
> reject the Trinitarian concept of Christianity.
>
> When, during the Protestant Reformation, the Bible
> was translated from Latin into native languages,
> several individuals independently rejected the
> idea of the Trinity. Unitarianism developed
> separately in Poland, Transylvania (among
> Hungarians), and England.

The fellow I'm talking about renounced Christianity
totally, upon leaving the Mormon Church. To him, Jesus
is just an historical "fraud" of the type doc21hansen
is so upset about. Likewise St. Paul and all the rest
of the biblical writers.

However, if the Unitarian-Universalists will accept a
new member, who has renounced and denounced Christianity,
I'm puzzled as to how much of a "fraud" they really are.

Perhaps doc21hansen will take the trouble to help us
understand why my friend made a very bad choice in joining
up with such a group, after leaving Mormonism.

???

UD

I briefly considered Unitarianism or some form of Bhuddism, but really...once you discover the delusion you were under, it's easy to extend that to any religious system that one might consider.

Studying the history and causes of religious activity soon shows that it's a social phenomenon not based on solid reasoning and unprovable by the scientific method. Once you realize faith is a very poor investigatory tool, you're generally through with religion.

I think that if a person decides to continue belief in God or even Christianity, why not just "be your own church," and pick/choose what your exact theology will be?

It seems like most religions are competitive with each other to have the one true knowledge of a higher power, a one true way of living, a one true church, etc. I avoid most religions now because of this.

After I left Mormonism and its toxic culture, I became drawn to Buddhism and some Native Indian faiths because they don't seem to be as judgemental and narcissistic as the rest that I've looked into.

+100 amd does the OP have anything to back up his assertion that all American religions are Masonic? Just asking

Yes, it's my experience that if we buy into something else, it's with a huge speculative outlook.

Well for me, it took sixteen years to even consider belief in something, and I now consider myself agnostic with a strong spiritual tendency toward Jesus, but also to nature based spirituality, like pagan, or Hinduism.

When I first found out I was lied to all my life about God, my first instinct was to not believe in anything, and the anger, bitterness and depression was palpable for years. I couldn't even hear the word Mormon without flying into a rage. It was as if the whole world, beautiful and full of color, as it was, suddenly became devoid of color, pleasure, of anything meaningful. At the time, I lived in upstate New York, in a rural place that looked like a heavenly fairytale complete with fireflies that lit up the dusky sky like heaven. Emotionally, I was in hell, the cognitive dissonance was crashing all around me and I felt I didn't want to live if there was no point. So I looked for evidence of a deity, and it smacked me in the face that this beautiful world IS evidence of something greater. It's not proof. There's a difference. There is circumstantial evidence that life is not finite. Even in the law of physics, matter cannot be destroyed, merely rearranged. I hope our souls have matter...

Bottom line, who cares what religious story is right as long as there is something else after this.

"As long as there's something else after this....."

I have decided that although it would be nice if we continue on somehow, we'd also better contempalate the possibility that we won't. As for me, I don't fear death, as it is something we must all face. I'd like to stave it off for as long as possible, though. That's instinctual. It's unknowable what lied beyond. Religion is a reassurance, but probably a false one.

If you haven't been dead, you don't know what happens and neither does anyone else. I't clearly a wait-and-see sort of thing. (Or wait-and-don't see.)

Oblivion is hard to imagine, but if that's the reality, it will just be an eternal sleep without dreams. Free of all pain, worry or distress for sure, but unfortunately perhaps, free of pleasure, thought, memory or existence as well.

I appreciate your thoughts and I agree that while a grim reality I must enjoy what's in front of me now because death is something we will all eventually face. I appreciate your take on death. You seem to have mess less anxiety about it than I do.

you mean, i.e., something that "you" consciously experience. Better to embrace life for what it is, good and bad, now.

J. Chan Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> you mean, i.e., something that "you" consciously
> experience. Better to embrace life for what it
> is, good and bad, now.

<Sigh>
OK. Sage advice guys.

Tell us more about this non-fraud you have discovered. :)

Since most dont, it's not clear what your point is.

Do you have any statistics that most ex Mos don't join other churches? I don't know if they do or not because as far as I know there has never been a study. This board may not be typical.

This board does reprint data. It is a self selected group, but that does not portend that it must be a group that is significantly variant from the group entitled exmormon. Therefore, it is prima facia data that supports the assertion. Unless extraneous variables can be identified, assessed, and controlled then it is a sample that stands on is own merit.

Therefore, the assumption baed on the exmormon boards across the net would suggest that a majority of exmormons become non religious is supported.

HH. =)

But it doesn't sound like you got them from credible sources.

My reason for attending another church:

Social.

Where do you go to meet people once you leave the biggest social club of them all?

I would bet the reason others attend another denomination is for the same reason.

50 lashes for me!!

All people should be free to do what pleases them after leaving Mormonism. I would think if they enjoy the spiritual messages and the music and interaction with like minded people they may very well try out a church that does not have a pedophile fraud as it's centerpiece. Only they should worry about what the motives of the pastor might be. No one else should worry about them. I cetainly don't.

If one hasn't attended a Protestant Church ever, then why would they think it is all a fraud like Mormonism. You don't know what benefit you get from a real Bible-relieving congregation until you try it. And if they prefer to be a couch potato every Sun. that is their choice too. I never concern myself with people once they are out of cults.I find it odd that some do.

Please recall that the premise of the OP wasn't that ex-Mormons shouldn't have the freedom to join other frauds. It simply questioned why they do it.



Edited 5 time(s). Last edit at 07/01/2012 12:33AM by steve benson.

I think they/we do it because everyone wants, on some level, something to believe in. We want something that is more than ourselves, outside of ourselves, and better to set our eyes on to help us pull through struggles and challanges and to give meaning to our lives. It's a way to cope and to understand things that we may struggle to understand in other terms. A lot of people find that in a diety.

"The Journey of Souls" great book and one of my favs. I have spoken with a few of his students and they are very nice people with good information. I myself have come to the conclusion that some people simply require a LOT of structure in their lives..and organized religion seems to fulfill that for them. I don't like or agree with it at all but I can understand it somewhat. I went from mormonism to nothing and have remained just that for over 25 years. For me it works but I also have to respect and keep in mind the people that aren't quite ready for that step yet. I believe that they will be at some point, but just maybe not quite yet! It takes time and we all move upon our own pace.


doc21hansen Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I really scotch my head when I read that
> ex-mormons who have had their eyes opened and have
> left the LDS church end up joining another church.
> Do they not realize that in America, all the major
> religions have Masonic origins just like the
> Mormon church? And no, Joseph Smith didn't first
> learn about Masonry in Nauvoo. His family was
> steeped in it for generations. His intention was
> to start a new blue lodge, not a church. Joseph's
> beliefs of temples, plural marriage, garments were
> from Masonic influences growing up in the Masonic
> oriented Smith family. (Book: The Widow's Son: The
> Esoteric History of the Prophet Joseph Smith And
> the Orgin of Mormonism / authored by my friend
> Kerry O'Boren / one of my favorites exposing JS
> available from Amazon). JS was a borrower. He
> borrowed the ideals of the word of wisdom and the
> united order from Sydney Ridgon. He made things
> his by saying he got a revelation about them after
> he borrowed them. He really didn't have any new
> ideas of his own.
>
> God, a god or any other being from any spiritual
> dimension has not called upon any man to be his
> spokesperson. A careful analysis of the book of
> Genesis talking about the sons of god taking the
> daughters of man as wifes should be your red flag
> for further investigation. These gods that came
> from the sky were no gods. Only mortals with
> technology that awed mankind. In order to control
> mankind, they set up religion. Read the old
> testament and the use of "fear of god" to keep
> them all in line. Who were the prophets? They were
> the offspring of these humanoid aliens and earthly
> women spoken of in Genesis. They were the
> spokesperson for their fathers. The self appointed
> gods. Elohim is plural meaning gods. While they
> did teach mankind things like writing, agriculture
> and living socially in cities, they used the fear
> of destruction by god as a means to keep them in
> line. The gods are gone but men have stepped up in
> their place using the same fraud to control people
> and make a nice life for themselves financially.
>
> So jumping from Mormonism into any other religion
> is still fraud. No religion has keys to salvation.
> Salvation to what? For Mormons, becoming a god.
> The only ones having eternal sex.(LOL)
>
> If I asked you who it was that was born from a
> virgin birth, performed miracles, raised the dead,
> walked on water, died on a cross only to be
> resurrected 3 days later, who am I talking about?
> Christ? No. Krishna who lived 1500 years before
> Jesus. In fact, there have been many men that
> predate Jesus that have the same story. Hmmm.
> (Book: The Worlds 16 Crucified Saviors / Amazon)
> No man died for my sins, your sins or anyone's
> sins. The great earthquake that supposedly
> occurred at the death of Christ? Historians in
> Jerusalem at that time don't mention it. Books
> written about the life and ministry of Christ were
> written over a hundred years later. He was a
> fiction based on earlier savior fictions.
>
> You don't have one life to prove yourself. You
> hopefully learn from your mistakes if not in this
> life, perhaps in the next hundreds of lifetimes
> until you get things straight. Once you learn your
> lessons, you graduate. Everyone eventually learns
> what they need to know even if someone takes more
> lifetimes than another. We all graduate. We all
> make it. And we all graduate at the same level.
>
> One of the best books that guides my spiritual
> life is "The Journey of Souls" written by a PhD
> hypnotherapist who does life regressions. Taking
> people back into the spirit world, he was able to
> get information, the same information and details
> from thousands of clients. Learn what is real and
> what is not. You've just forgotten. Read it. Enjoy
> your life. Make mistakes. Learn from them.
>
> Don't get stuck in another church/religion where
> you're controlled by the fear of a god.
> Manipulated financially by some slick church
> leader.
>
> As a friend told me who left the LDS Church before
> me said: I left the Church and got a 10% pay raise
> and a 2 day weekend to enjoy. Amen!

Here is an article on The World's 16 Crucified Saviors. The consensus of scholars is that the book is crap.

Crucified Saviors


From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


Jump to: navigation, search






The World's Sixteen Crucified Saviors (1875)
The World's Sixteen Crucified Saviors (or Christianity Before Christ) is an 1875 book written by Kersey Graves. It asserts that Jesus was not an actual person, but was a creation largely based on earlier stories of deities or god-men saviours who had been crucified, and descended to and ascended from the underworld.

It has been noted that Graves derived "many of the most important facts collated in this work" from the comprehensive 1833 work, the Anacalypsis, by Sir Godfrey Higgins. These works thus present an early variant of what would come to be known as the Jesus myth hypothesis.

The book is often used as a source for many Jesus myth hypothesis writers, including Acharya S, Tom Harpur and John G. Jackson.

Atheist activist Madelyn Murray O'Hair was a fan of the book.

The book's accuracy has been questioned by both Christian[1] and atheist scholars,[2] with the consensus being that the book is unscholarly and unreliable.

[edit] See also
Historicity of Jesus
Jesus Christ and mythology

[edit] References
1.^ Who was Kersey Graves?, article citing various rebuttal from Christian contemporaries to Graves.
2.^ infidels.org, review of The World's Sixteen Crucified Saviors by atheist historian Richard Carrier.

[edit] External links
The World's Sixteen Crucified Saviors, complete text at sacred-texts.com.
The World's Sixteen Crucified Saviors, online edition at infidels.org.
Kersey Graves and The World's Sixteen Crucified Saviors by Richard Carrier (2003).






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it all depends on the personality of the exmo. Alot of times the cult of mormonism leaves a big emotional scar. a person can no longer trust anybody but themselves and becoming an athiest is okay for them. for me I never did join another church, I side with mainstream christians and feel comfortable with that. Sometimes i go to a church with a friend, and the next time go to a different church. it is never the same church and it is not all the time. sometimes just discussing jesus with my friends is all I do. Mostly I still pray and treat people well and donate to different charities.

I know alot of exmos think that is stupid, but it is okay. I don't get offended. it is just not an issue with me. I guess you can call it a cult. but it is a cult that dosen't impair me and i function well in society.

I think there are a couple of reasons/issues.

1) They jump from one fraud into another fraud that works better for them. Religion is useful to a lot of people even if it is made up. People often find something that is a better fit that "works for them". Ultimately truth may not be someone's goal when leaving Mormonism. The new religion may give a lot more than it takes for that person - Mormonism is pretty bad on the takes more than it gives scale.

There are lots of reasons they could feel the need.

2) It's a matter of degrees. A few bucks a week is a lot different than 10% of your income, etc.

3) A lot of people aren't ready for the stark truth. They still need to feel that there is some supernatural God with a plan up there looking over them.

4) It takes a shift in identity. Some people aren't ready to shift their identity that far - the still need to identify as being a "child of God" or some such thing.

I agree that it seems a lot like "out of the frying pan into the fire" and it makes the most sense to follow the logic all the way through.

But I also think people have a lot of personal needs, wants, goals, etc. My path is not into the arms of another fraud, but I'm not going to judge someone who makes that choice. Of course, I also don't mind laying out the logic in case that's what they want to look at.

they want someone to tell them what to do? and they are emotionally arrested and are gulible?

My husband wanted to be part of a church community. He didn't care which one, just one that I felt comfortable at. I like the ebb and flow of mass and the ritual.

Do I agree with everything?
No, of course not. But as I told my friends, it is more acceptable to be a Catholic who uses birth control, than a Mormon who drinks.

I would have been perfectly happy never setting foot into a church again except for Christmas and the periodic wedding, funeral, and baby blessing/christening/baptism, but my husband felt otherwise and I don't mind. It makes him happy and it works for us.

1. I do not regard Christianity as a fraud.
2. Mormons who never believed in Christianity before being Mormons find any faith difficult after their belief system is thrown into disarray.
3. In my case I never believed in the Mormon doctrines and, hence, found it easy to return to (actually to continue in) the beliefs I have always held. I never accepted the errors of TSCC.

"Myth" is probably more accurate than "fraud".

How a specific Christian religion/congregation uses the myth determines whether or not it becomes a "fraud".

I myself have studied Buddhism, Taoism, various "forms" of Christianity, etc since my exodus. And I've enjoyed it.

A genuine sense of peace, as well as love, has resulted from it. There has not been a need to judge if my path is better than others', or if it's closer to truth than others'. It has taught me to simply enjoy what has brought into me this genunie peace and love that doesn't come with a price tage of of guilt and stress.