In this thread Cludgie made several unsubstantiated claims based on insider info. I replied that I didn't believe it.

http://exmormon.org/phorum/read.php?2,557339,557339

Some said that it made a lot of sense and explains much. I don't think it closes the door at all. If some of the claims were true, they would open even more questions. (Such as who controls these supposed leaders and why would they allow it? Wouldn't such control be a big eye opener on top of the doctrinal/historical issues for at least some of the 70? etc)

But here is my take, with some references to back my claims.

Signing over all personal items/writings, etc.
--The royalties paid by Deseret Book for their books are not sent to the church, but to the writer. Apostles still own grand homes in SLCO. For example, Hollands:

http://assessor.slco.org/cfml/Query/valuationInfo.cfm?parcel_id=09313320170000&nbhd=57&PA=1

Email and other communications being controlled: Annointed one here and at Postmo posted that he had private, direct, personal email correspondence with Holland. Others here have said similar things in the past.

Psychological counseling: well that would be personal for everyone and should be kept private. Duh!

Church in league with police/FBI. That doesn't surprise me. If they can exert large control over the business and city political engines of UT, then law enforcement would be under similar lobbying power, since they answer to the city politics.

As for police involvement in church functions and investigations, any organization or business can contract out local and federal law enforcement by paying for the hourly rates required. This is no conspiratorial dealing. It is business as usual all over the country.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 07/10/2012 12:56PM by Jesus Smith.

but the part about seeing psychologists? If you go to LDS SS, you have to sign something to allow the psychologist to report back to your bishop. Been there, done that--before I married my ex.

I would assume that whatever else goes on with the GAs (and I found ETB's experience quite telling)--that they are scrutinized closely by the insiders.

Probably not much more closely than my own employer monitors me. They can't afford the bad publicity which would come from a GA (especially a member of the 12) having inappropriate sexual relations with a minor for example. The George P. Lee event didn't help them at all.

J.S. said

"Annointed one here and at Postmo posted that he had private, direct, personal email correspondence with Holland."

How would anyone know if it's private? You can't tell who's reading your email once you send it. The rule of thumb is that you should consider all email as public viewing, if you want to stay out of trouble. I'm not saying that other people are reading Holland's mail for sure, but how do you know they're not?



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 07/10/2012 01:35PM by canadianfriend.

This is correct just like my employer has access to my e-mail. The reality is the Twelve and the other GAs are employees of the LDS Church and their boss is the First Presidency. The only one without a boss is Monson, but it sounds as if he can't function as a real boss now anyway so the other two are in charge. And I suppose Packer could rightly be seen as the boss of the rest of the Twelve.

Funny, how RfM sometime becomes the Area 51 flying saucer Skousen version of ex-Mormonism, yet the kookie threads are still read, digested, and ideas regurgitated about things that couldn't possibly be true. I never laugh, I never denigrate, I just ignore and move on. Referring back to my original thread, it was an honest attempt to explain why some otherwise very intelligent LDS leaders, being the very first people to know that they are not prophets, seers, and revelators, still continue to spout Mormon bullshit from the pulpit every six months. I used information provided by someone who has been very near the inside, although not as close as SLDrone or Annointed One. But I found it odd that my comments got ripped apart while readers seemingly have no trouble believing the ex-Mormon Skousenesque stories.

I tried to qualify my information in such a way that one could either fucking believe it or fucking leave it alone. I am not one of the more insecure posters who needs his ego continually stroked. I also don't care if one tears me down or has fun at my expense. But to insist that those who are friends of mine are willfully trying to bullshit us is quite another thing. There are very few of us on here who have the ability to really verify or vet any information we get and pass on to the board members, anyway. We post news links all the time, but that doesn't mean they are necessarily true. If the news information dovetails with our criticisms of Mormonism, we think the authors brilliant. If their information goes against the grain of our thought, they become morons. If perpetuate that practice, we might as well have stayed Mormon.

Referring back to the original thread and to this thread, did I ever say that GAs were not allowed to make money? I never said that. I mean, if you couldn't earn money off the flock, why the hell stay Mormon? There was far too much reading into this information. I was just pointing out that, according to this friend, GAs are in a prison of their own making, and their intellectual property is said to not be their own. I'm sure that if they write wonderful stuff praising Mormonism, that they can keep the cash. I'm sure that they can have cell phones and write E-mails. I'm just saying that, according to this friend, have to play nicely and toe the party line or they lose it all. (However, as far as the legality of hiring public cops to surveil your enemies, I call bullshit of the most stoopid variety.)

I came to this site several years ago. I discovered it when trying to chase down a Mormon time-line that someone said the church had altered to make it jibe and line up with the story portrayed in the D&C. I lurked for a long while before having the courage to take a moniker and post a thought or two. The biggest personal benefit was hearing about resignation and learning about people who had resigned, and it gave me the info and courage I needed to do the same thing. I spent about two years on RfM before resigning in Jan 2009, and that is going on three years ago.

I am quite recovered now, but it has been fun to continue to read RfM and occasionally comment. However, if it comes down to stroking egos, perpetuating bullshit, and having friends denigrated, my critics can go piss up a rope. If I had wanted that kind of griefI could have just stayed in church.

So to those RfMers who've been fun, informative, and engaging here, keep it up. It has been a nice go, and some of you have become actual friends. But as Joseph Smith might have penned, Adieu.

Susan, get me out of here.

What the phuu....

No need for an adieu, Cludgie. Better to say "piss up a rope."

Just sayin'.

Human

cludgie is one of my favorite posters

I hope he stays.

Don't go, man. I missed the whole thing when it happened but saw it now. I think it's something along the lines of what your buddy said, FWIW. I don't know WHO in their right mind would give the keys to the ship to a senile old man.

Regardless, we live and die on this type of rumor and we don't have much else. Some turns out to be right, some not, but I don't ever want people to hold back something they hear because they don't want to be knocked around.

Hey Cludgie, I don't post much but i do read your stuff regularly and enjoy what you post. You are a more thoughtful poster and I do enjoy your stuff. Don't walk away...

You sound like me when I get pissed and quit Facebook.....I always come back..Take a breather...Smoke'em if you gott'em...

Cool down and come back in a couple of days...

At least until after the election.

You keep us informed of articles needing our attention. You post a lot of things that are articulate and intelligent and good solid information for the media who are starting to lurk here more and more. And we get good ideas from you for us to use when commenting on articles. And then you just have a background that is rare around here, especially with your government work and so much foreign knowledge.

If you haven't noticed there have been articles on the Net that quote straight from RFM and even use our screen names in parentheticals. Informed media people have found a gold mine of really good information here.

OK, I know, you have a right to leave anytime you want. And I also was kind of blown away about how a post about GAs having to sign over the rights to their materials got blown into them being completely controlled. Heck, Shane Jackman has talked about the fact that he lost the rights to all his stuff and now Deseret Book won't sell it because he's an apostate. But hey man, getting the word and the truth about mormonism out is so important right now. Anyway, just a little plea FWIW.

the idea he brought up. We can save the ad hominems for FARMS.

The original post got me thinking. This whole church is structured like a boys club. You start at the bottom, contribute, make commitments and get minor rewards. It's built around fancy titles, callings that give you increasing power over your peers, status, and access.

Why would that system not continue, in fact be increased, as you rise through the ranks?

Also, this church has done an amazing job of picking Apostles who don't embarrass them. They are obviously doing one heck of a job screening and monitoring these guys.

I have to believe they are asked to make bigger and bigger commitments as they rise. There have to be more and more ways to cement them into the ranks. The more a guy invests in the church, the less likely he is to rat it out. And money is the one thing they all agree is valuable.

Just because they still live in their big houses and get checks from Deseret Book doesn't mean their finances aren't entangled.

I wonder what is really going on. The 2nd anointing is probably the tip of the iceberg.

Everyone's emotionally charged today especially with GEM. Take a breather folks, we're all on the same side (I hope). We're all going to be sceptics the rest of our lives. Yet we're all going to speculate. I found cludgie's post to be eye opening but no one has to take it as gospel. This site is all about passing around ideas.

Cludgie, I meant no offense personally. I'm just in disagreement with what you heard. Granted, your point about surveiling is a good one.

Link http://assessor.slco.org/cfml/Query/valuationInfo.cfm?parcel_id=09313320170000&nbhd=57&PA=1 is broken

try it again. Worked for me:

http://assessor.slco.org/cfml/Query/valuationInfo.cfm?parcel_id=09313320170000&nbhd=57&PA=1

If it doesn't load, just search the parcel # 09-31-332-017-0000

info it shows:


Parcel 09-31-332-017-0000
HOLLAND, JEFFREY R & PATRICIA T; TRS (JR Owner
278 N A ST Address
0.19 Total Acreage
2458 Above Ground sqft.
111 - SNGL FAM RES Property Type
13 Tax District
$ 430,242 Average Neighborhood Sale
$ 820,000 Maximum Neighborhood Sale
$ 162,000 Minimum Neighborhood Sale
1,843 Average Above Ground Sqft

Value History
Record Land Value Building Value Market Value Tax Rate
2012 $ 173,700 $ 426,800 $ 600,500 not set
2011 1 $ 177,700 $ 434,500 $ 612,200 .0155190
2010 1 $ 181,600 $ 444,200 $ 625,800 .0153590
2009 1 $ 191,500 $ 449,600 $ 641,100 .0138340
2008 1 $ 197,400 $ 544,900 $ 742,300 .0115230
2007 1 $ 141,000 $ 512,300 $ 653,300 .0118730
More
DetailsSHOW ALL
COLLAPSE ALL
+ MAP
+ LAND
+ RESIDENCE/CONDO
+ COMMERCIAL
+ DETACHED STRUCTURE



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 07/11/2012 12:47PM by Jesus Smith.