Because they no longer think god is watching them, a person leaving the church will think "Why not cheat on my wife?" "Why not sin?"

I was listening to Richard Packham's interview with John Dehlin (Part 2 http://mormonstories.org/?p=1063 ) where they discussed the effect of RP leaving the church on RP's wife, and both agreed that it was expected and reasonable that the person leaving would think about going ahead and cheating on their spouse, and that their spouse was reasonable to worry about it.

I never once thought it would be okay. I mean sure, I do stuff that mormons think of as sinning like drinking alcohol and coffee, spending Sundays anywhere but church, etc. But I never once thought it would now be okay to do something that disprespected others or that would hurt them because I no longer believed god was watching me.

Am I alone? Or is it a guy/gal difference?

I think every man, at some point, considers cheating on his spouse. Not that he would do it, but it crosses his mind. I don't think this has anything to do with leaving the mormon church. This particular "sin" is not mormon specific, like drinking alcohol and coffee. If anything, it might be more common in men who leave the church, but whose wives do not.

I'm a life-long atheist. I've never cheated on a sweetie.

I came close once (pardon the pun) but I knew I would feel a lot of guilt afterwards... not 'religious sin' guilt but bad feelings about breaking a bond of trust between my bloke and myself.

I don't think breaking the terms of a relationship have much to do with notions of sin in the secular world. It's just more about trust and honesty.

I had an agreement with one partner that we would be monogamous with one another but if I met Jeff Bridges or he met Gina Davis and had a shot... we could each go for it, ha!

>spaghetti oh wrote: "... not 'religious sin' guilt but bad feelings about breaking a bond of trust between my bloke and myself."


That's what I was thinking listening to the pod cast. The reason I don't cheat or steal is because of the damage it would do to people I love and/or society as a whole. Are there really people who don't do that stuff only because they think they'll be punished by god? Is this the prevailing thought of most Mormons? Can't they look around and see if their actions will do harm and make the decision to do it or not based on that?

Lots of TBM's that still believe in god commit sin. Otherwise they wouldn't need church courts.

I just don't get the thinking that leaving the church will make someone think its OK to sin....the ones that stay seem to think its OK too.

And when I say sin, I don't mean drink coffee or alchohol....mormons sins....I mean stuff like stealing, cheating, adultry, violence, etc....sins against humanity and the planet.

Well, that's a major pet peeve of mine-- people assuming that because you left the church, you stopped believing in god. Or you HAVE to stop believing in God.

True, some people stop believing in god when they leave, because they figure if the church is false, maybe everything is false. But just like the rest of life-- everything is not all black and white. Some things are false, while other things are true. For example, just because one lover betrays you, doesn't mean they all will. Its a fatalistic, self-fulfilling attitude to assume that they always will.

And maybe others don't consider the fact that maybe the reason the bible doesn't match what science is finding, is because people thousands of years ago didn't get the translations and visions exactly right, or couldn't convey them effectively, because they were uneducated or didn't have words for what they saw. Its not because they are liars, or because god is false.

Its impossible to prove there is no god. So weather or not you believe in him, depends on nothing more than weather or not you like the idea of being judged. If you don't, you're going to choose to take everything as proof that there's no god. Its that simple. Very blunt, but simple.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 12/15/2010 07:55PM by melissa3839.

> So
> weather or not you believe in him, depends on
> nothing more than weather or not you like the idea
> of being judged. If you don't, you're going to
> choose to take everything as proof that there's no
> god. Its that simple. Very blunt, but simple.

No. It's quite possible to be perfectly okay with the idea of being judged by an omniscient creator but still to believe that the evidence comes down overwhelmingly on the side of there being no god.

This is, in fact, exactly how I feel. Should god happen to exist, I don't have much of a problem being judged according to his standards. I just don't believe there is good evidence to support his existence.

Of course I've *thought about* doing it before. Nearly every married person has at some point. But I've never thought that it would be an okay thing to do, the presence or absence of a God notwithstanding.

I'm perhaps too charitable to my formerly fellow mormons, but I doubt that most of them refrain from adultery because of fear of divine retribution. I think that most of them don't cheat on their wives because they would feel like dishonest cads for doing so.

If anything, the dominant guilt in moism is social rather than religious. Social guilt keeps members in line on the trivial, mormon-specific items like paying tithing and not drinking coffee. But on larger, more generally-accepted "sins", I've got to believe that--on the whole--they genuinely don't want to harm other people.

Too naive?



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 12/15/2010 07:40PM by mateo.

If anyone thinks that is normal then it is because of brainwashing all their life by people-Mormons- who have told them this over and over. NORMAL people who grow up in kind, caring households do not care to sin regardless of what church they may stop attending -or if they choose to attend another church. That is so foreign to normal people. And to say Mormons believe it because they think God is no longer in their life when they leave the LDS faith???....WOW, so only Mormons believe in God. How arrogant.

Lillium Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Because they no longer think god is watching them,
> a person leaving the church will think "Why not
> cheat on my wife?" "Why not sin?"
>
> I was listening to Richard Packham's interview
> with John Dehlin (Part 2
> http://mormonstories.org/?p=1063 ) where they
> discussed the effect of RP leaving the church on
> RP's wife, and both agreed that it was expected
> and reasonable that the person leaving would think
> about going ahead and cheating on their spouse,
> and that their spouse was reasonable to worry
> about it.
>
......
>
> Am I alone? Or is it a guy/gal difference?

It may appear "normal" for TBMs and other special people to see exmo's and atheists that way. But is sure as heck does not make any sense at all. Here's why:

1. TBMs and other special people "sin" while in the church. Some steal or cheat in business, here a little, there a little. Some don't do their home and visiting teaching. Some have uttered swear words or some such. Some of them go further than the usual sin of omission to really nasty stuff like child abuse and adultery.

Did they think God turned his back for a bit and then did some wild stuff?

2. Scriptures claim "ALL" men have sinned and fallen short in the eyes of God. Why would TBMs and other special people feel they don't sin in whatever capacity?

Seems like exmo-ism and non-belief are the new black; there's always someone looking down their noses at them for any and all reasons.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 12/16/2010 01:28AM by charles, buddhist punk.