Leaving Mormonism is like watching It's a Wonderful Life where at the end all your friends come together to celebrate the true meaning of Christmas. Love, charity, forgiveness and good will toward men. We forgive and love each other and you realize that no man is a failure who has friends.

Wait no it's not. These are Mormon friends. It's more like learning that your buddy Joe has always secretly despised you for years. And now armed with his iron-clad argument of "Satan has you in his grasp" he's launching a full-scale assault on your character for that time you may or may not have been a communist conspirator; and there are rumors of child molestation (the ward gasps). Thanks Joe. Glad you didn't lose your house last year when I bailed you out...twice.

It's like discovering that the entire town all loved you, but only because they had to. You were popular, but only because you were high-ranking on the hierarchy of self-righteous ignorant zeal. Now they have a socially-endorsed morally-justified carte blanche (carte blanche doesn't have a hyphen, promise) reason to become who they all were in the first place. Assholes. Concerned, loving caring, vindictive assholes. Who want to love you back into their...eh...church. Yes get you into their church.

It would be like if George Bailey at the end of the film discovers that the town that he had supported for years, built up against all odds, and sacrificed his own money to support, had several people who had actually been boning his wife the whole time while embezzling a mere 10% of his earnings. Also Clarance the angel wasn't earning his wings, he was using the bells to attract prostitutes (prostitute angels are summoned by bells). He does this every year.

OK, your REAL friends still like you for your talent, hard work, obvious loyalty to them, and they will support you through thick or... wait. These are Mormons. Not one of them was a ever actually a friend. Not one of them ever really liked you at all. It was merely the socially correct thing to do. As the scripture says, "Love your neighbor, as I have loved you, as long as he's Mormon. It totally says that look it up!

Anyway, if the movie were called It's a Wonderful Mormon Life the ending would be about how George never would have gone through this "trial" in the first place if he had just had more faith. And friends are the best thing that you can have. So don't do anything that we disprove of, or your "friends" will reveal their true colors and call you a rapist, or a devil-worshiper or whatever horrible thing they can think of.

That's what good friends do after all; love you into submission.

And at some point you realize that you don't actually have any friends. Because a real friend would't hang you up to dry for not agreeing with him. A real friend would try to understand you. A real friend wound't try to destroy your reputation for having a difference of opinion on extremely important issues like drinking green tea (which can totally kill you, look it up! You must be a child molester!).

This is when you realize that you never actually had any friends.

And you are sad, because you always thought that you were popular and liked. But you're not. You were merely intimidating to someone who is easily intimidated.

Lastly, you post on RFM because you have no one else to talk to. You hope that they will be kind in their replies because you're already down. You'd like to hear a reply that says that real friends don't treat you like a pedophile for liking coffee.

You'd like to hear that you are a good man because you spend your whole life trying to be a good man. You'd like to hear that someone else gets it.

I hope you get it and Merry Christmas.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 12/16/2010 12:37AM by The Man in Black.

I know you must be feeling down at the moment - clear from your writing.
Also clear from your writing is an obvious sense of humor.
You're very funny - you should write movie reviews.
Needing acceptance is very important and human nature. But if you're not yourself and not standing up for what you believe in, then the acceptance you gain from others is hollow and worthless.

You meet new people, life goes on. And I can tell you're a brave person for leaving all of this behind. Even though in reality it was a false sense of security.
I wish you the best, I'm sure you'll keep living your life honestly and true to yourself.

And when I can't think of anything else to say, I always look up quotes. Here's some I found that I love and might apply to your situation.

"Character is doing the right thing when nobody's looking. There are too many people who think that the only thing that's right is to get by, and the only thing that's wrong is to get caught." ~J.C. Watts

"Do not believe in anything simply because you have heard it. Do not believe in anything simply because it is spoken and rumored by many. Do not believe in anything simply because it is found written in your religious books. Do not believe in anything merely on the authority of your teachers and elders. Do not believe in traditions because they have been handed down for many generations. But after observation and analysis, when you find that anything agrees with reason and is conducive to the good and benefit of one and all, then accept it and live up to it." ~Buddha

"When I do good, I feel good. When I do bad, I feel bad. That's my religion." ~Abraham Lincoln

"A man cannot be comfortable without his own approval." ~Mark Twain, "What Is Man?", 1906

Thank you. TMB.

genuine people to make new friends with, so you don't miss the flakes enough to go back to them. The best part is that you have plenty of time now because you aren't wasting it trying to be nice to two-faced hypocrites.

Opportunities like that don't come along very often, do they? Make the most of it!

What's the big deal?
It's called group mind.
Bad horse, bad horse...get out of the herd.

Aw shucks says the bad horse, they won't won't rub snouts with me anymore.

Sorry this is a little long. I blame the topic.

I have been in the same area since 91 and resigned in 2008. Ward boundaries changed over time, we knew half the people in the stake. Not one single person that previously considered me a “friend” has showed up to ask, “why”.

The very strongest “friend” that I supposedly had, acted like I had handed him a bomb when I gave him “Suddenly Strangers” by Chris and Brad Morin, to help him understand what had happened to me.

Adults act just like children in the mormon club. When it comes to anything to do with the church they are (we were) generaly speaking, just like children. They are scared to death that being around me will cause them to lose everything if they just listen. All I was looking for was a little understanding and none was to be found from family or “friends”. It’s been a veritable wasteland.

When I run into any mormons I knew it’s like they are watching a wolf. I am always cordial but I wonder how they would react if I leaned towards them a little and offered “Hey, I have some information I’d like to show you” or “would you like to know why I resigned from the church?”. Can you imagine? They’d prolly go into shock!

Thank friggin Snoopy for websites like this. Thank friggin Snoopy we that are now fully informed and who have chosen differently, are not alone, not even close. We are not alone and our numbers are growing. Personal blogs are being put up, more recovery and discussion sites are going up (has anyone checked r e ddit?). The number of new posters on RFM has gone way up. Anyone notice just how friggin busy this board has gotten since last conference? Traffic seems way up to me. (maybe Susan or Eric can verify that for us). The ease of access to information is changing the “inform questioning mormons game” BIG time.

I have found out who my real friends are by the way. Without solicitation four of my coworkers offered to take me in during the transition period I need after my divorce. I was forced due to simple economics to take one of them up on their offer for a couple months and they have been more than gracious. They know me. It is unfathomable to them that anyone would divorce me for doing intelligent research and deciding differently.

I have held down my current job for 25 years, pay my bills, make a decent salary, not unfaithful, helpful around the house and people seem to like me and I aim to keep that perception intact by maintaining the morals and ethics I have always done.

By mormon standards none of that matters one whit. To them I am nothing more than an apostate, good for but two things. Someone to be shunned or someone to be turned into a re-conversion project the likes of which could gain some uber-mormon extra special blessings in heaven, if successful. This is now the whole of my worth to those who were “my friends”.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 12/16/2010 01:55AM by AmIDarkNow?.

I found myself reading your post faster and faster, going YEAH, YEAH! and my blood pressure was going up. You are so totally right it's ridiculous and you (well, I) feel like a fool for ever thinking they were friends.

Do you live anywhere near some exmo activities. It would do you a world of good to share some coffee and some laughs and face time with real people who will completely respect you for the behavior which makes them despise you. Check post-mormon.org and CALM for some location to meetup. There are three activities over Christmas here in the Bay area (Calif).

And our exmo numbers are growing as fast as the Internet!

Anagrammy

and the good news is that there are some wonderful people out there. I've been amazed at the hospitality, kindness and humanity of people I've met out of the church. There are a lot of great exmos out there. See if you can connect with some in your area, because it's so refreshing to have a live human to talk with about your experiences.

I think Mormonism DOES something to people. I think the fear (of falling away, of losing the family eternally, of being unaccepted by God or the ward members) really affects people negatively.

I think they are so worried about measuring up that they have a hard time being genuine or forming intimate friendships with other people. They are too worried about themselves and their fate and being accepted.

I didn't realize as a member how the church affected my relationships, but when my husband and I left the church, it was amazing to be able to talk about ANYTHING with my husband. Nothing was off the table. And I didn't have to find the official approved answer to every problem/question. We could be COMPLETELY REAL. It deepened our relationship, and that was my HUSBAND of 7 years (at the time), the guy I SHOULD have felt free to discuss anything with all along. But the church came between us to some degree . . . our relationship had been somewhat scripted by how we were SUPPOSED to feel about this or that, and what was acceptable, and what the consequences might be for feeling differently.

And BTW, my husband was a closet apostate for at least 2 years before he revealed his doubts to ME, his wife. How F'd up is that? How many spouses out there are afraid to reveal their deepest thoughts because they think their spouse will leave?

Anyway, hang in there. I found out that some people I knew weren't who I thought they were. I found out that their love was conditional upon me acting out the LDS script. So I guess I was basically a prop in their life. Oh well. It felt crummy at the time, but now I'm okay with it. I'd rather NOT be a prop. It was better to realize that and to move on.

Your irony was great, and your analogy with "It's a Wonderful Life" was humorous, but your post made me cry!

I have lost all my Mormon ward friends, too.

Being shunned can be crazy-making, and RFM has helped me get through this difficult experience. Always remember, it is THEM, not you. The Mormons are the crazy fanatic cult-members, and you are someone who simply discovered the truth.

I feel sorry for myself when former "friends" pass by me in the supermarket, and blankly look right through me, as though I wasn't there. I have lived in their neighborhood for 15 years. Our children used to play together.

No one has ever asked me WHY I left, either. One neighbor, my VT, did ask me a question, but she put it this way: "what did we do to offend you so much that you would leave The Church?"

I'm so sorry you are the brunt of gossip. You probably have it worse, because it seems you were a more important member of your ward. But--in your case, it is SLANDER! You could sue someone for accusing you of rape or child molestation! This rumor might hurt your career! You seem like a nice, sensitive person, and you might hesitate to take action--but maybe you need to do this to protect your good name. I don't know if you have children, but they need to know you are a good man! Mormonism is evil, and the cult tries to turn the children against their apostate parents. Don't let this happen. Also, there are too many people who's spouse has left them, when they left the cult.

I can honestly say that the worst shunning, gossipping and frowning is nothing, compared to the abuse my children and I suffered while we were faithful members! Leaving has been a piece of cake! We moved here to Utah as California outsiders. We were smiling and up-beat and had a sense of humor that they didn't understand. I was a divorced single working mother. We were a "broken home," and not a "forever family." My sons were actually bullied and kicked by the adult priesthood leaders, who broke into our house to drag them to priesthood meeting, when they slept in. The bishop's hideous high school senior son put his hands all over my little girl, when she was in her sleeping bag at a church campout. There were plenty of witnesses who heard her scream and saw what was happening, but they were all warned to not tell. My sons were threatened not to tell me about being butt-kicked to church. Sorry to ramble, but thank goodness this nightmare is over. The Mormon church was the only bad thing in our life. When my kids told me about the abuse, our whole family left together.

Even though I was a happy divorcee (shudder), I played the piano and organ, led choral groups, arranged music, accompanied people, played for road shows and musicals, bla-bla. When I got sick and needed to take a leave of absence from my real job, and from being the ward orgainst, my job cooperated, but the ward got mad at me, and threatened that God would withdraw his blessings if I didn't fulfill my calling.

Anyway, it hurts to know these people just used you for your money and talents. But, if you want to be brutally honest, are these the kind of people you want to share your life with? The honesty came to me a couple of years after we left: I don't like most of these people.

The average man has 3 close friends. The average woman has 4-5 close friends. Welcome to the world of the normal! Be patient. Look around you, and you will find the non-Mormon world is friendly, and loving.

Sometimes I back-slide when I see my former friends meeting at my neighbors' for lunch or Bible study or book club, or when I come home and find the Mormons at work scooping snow from each other's yards, and every sidewalk is clear from one end of the street to the other--except for mine--even the vacant house! But, oddly enough, several friends have left the cult also, including some of my relatives. I have re-connected with some old non-Mormon friends. Since I'm not a stay-at-home-mom, I have friends at work. In fact, I've gotten more Christmas cards than ever this year!

What you've been through has given you a deep compassion and understanding along with the courage to make a big change for a free life.

I was also a divorcee who was never good enough. My child was molested by a Mormon scout leader, so we have a lot in common. I particularly remember an excruciatingly embarrassing Relief Society lesson called "Ministering to the Single." Like I wasn't sitting right there, like there were no single people active?

One of the questions was "What do you think a single mother might need? What do you think it would be like raising children by yourself?" I wanted to answer, "It would be easier if you weren't patronized, that's for sure. You want to know what it's like--it's exactly like raising children when your husband's the bishop, only without the sex and certainly without the respect."

Unfortunately, I didn't think of any clever response at the time. I felt mortified and shamed by my marital status. Ironically, my grown kids think I was a hero to take them all out of it. I still feel bad that they were ever taken into the whole thing. But, that's what happened and we just go forward, right? BTW, are you single now?

Anagrammy

I remember those Relief Society lessons, too, especially one combined RS and Priesthood lesson which instructed Ht's, Bishopric, and other men to NEVER GO ALONE to a single woman's house, even if her children are there. It was to "avoid the appearance of evil."

I felt like standing up and telling them what in insult it was, and that we single women were made to feel like untrustworthy Jesebels. I really wanted to say "AS__IF__ I or any of my single friends would even want to pursue any of the icky old men in this ward!"

Later, I used this same reason to not let in the many love-bombers who came to our house, to harrass me and my children. I would say, "I can't let you in, because I'm alone." They'd say, "But here are two (or three) of us." I would say, "But there is only ONE of me."

One member of the bishopric came to see me alone, but he stood outside on the porch, and told me how terrible his marriage was, how he was "enduring to the end" with his wife, and that he and I could be great companions, and offer each other much comfort. I said, "It is NEVER appropriate for a married bishop to say these things to a single woman--even though you are not inside my house." What a creep he was! Later, other single women were approached by him, too--women who had no man to protect them, either. What a smarmy coward.

I sympathize with all single women in the cult. I'm still single, because I was brainwashed to date only Mormon men. Now I know why I never fell in love with any of them, even though they seemed nice. My marriages were too hurtful, anyway, and I couldn't take that kind of risk with my children involved.

I would like to hear your story sometime, anagrammy.

Especially because "It's a Wonderful Life" is my favorite movie. And your words hit very close to home. I remember how it felt like someone had stuck a sword through me when my best "friend" who I had been through thick and thin with dropped me off at my house after a trip we had taken and I knew, because I had admitted to her that I was never going to be a member of THE church again, that she had just kissed our "friendship" good bye. I have to admit that I got a lot of sick satisfaction a few years later when I heard that her perfect little Molly Mormon bubble had burst and she found herself in divorce court.

But that seems like such another lifetime ago now and I can't believe I could have ever even been friends with someone that brainwashed and shallow. I found out who my true friends and family really were. Turns out I only had 2 actual Mormon friends. I'm not in close contact with them but when I made a trip to Utah a couple months ago, I knew I could drop in on them and they'd be thrilled to see me, which they were, and we'd catch up on what's been happening with each other and the subject of the mormon church would never even come up in the conversation.

It took awhile to figure out how to have real friendships and to understand that family doesn't necessarily have anything to do with whose DNA you share. I've had to depend heavily on my friends and family in the past couple of months and I thank my lucky stars that I now have real ones who have been there in force.

Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 12/16/2010 08:09AM by NormaRae.

and you have to grow some balls.

I can totally relate to what you are saying. But at some point you have to face the fact: I would rather not have a bunch of fake friends than be a chump.

your realization is a tough one - I related to it and at times, extended it to "I don't even have a family"

one insight, obtained in the middle of a dark night, was that by sticking by my own beliefs and perceptions, I really being the kind of friend I wanted .... to myself. I decided that I hanging in with myself while I tried to figure things out..I was trying to beloving and forgiving of myself....I was going to act like the kind of people that I was seeking in my new life. This insight gave me something to hold on to in rough, lonely times.

I know this is a personal process and I can't know that my experience will be helpful to you but I hope that there is some insight like that waiting for you in the days ahead.

Reminds me of one of my favorite demotivational posters:

If you find yourself struggling with loneliness, you're not alone. And yet you are alone. So very alone.


I was very lucky in that I found 2 non-mo friends in jr.high that have stuck with me through the years, despite me going all TBM on them during our mid-twenties. They have put up with a lot from me, but have stuck by me for over 20 years now.

Complete opposite of the dozen or so mormon "friends" I thought I had, that I never heard from again once I stopped going to church.

If you have Facebook you can have many friends here. As for Mormons. You have 0 friends.

Because you appear to have been one. I'm sorry you're going through this. It's the pits leaving the Mormon church and discovering just how big the sham really is. It's hard starting over and rebuilding your social support system, but it's worth having real friends instead of phony Mormon "fellowshipping" friends.

Your post is so accurate that it is almost scary.

I'm 55 now, and I've come to realize it's better to have a very small circle of good friends that are loyal, than all the multi-stake-wide temporary friends I used to have.

Hey, I was gonna say that!!! 'cept I'm older.

Ron

I have had many acquantances in life,,but very few "friends".

You know what? I post here too for the same reason. So far the group on this board has been very accepting and nice to me as I go through this transition and I have really appreciated it. I invested a lot of time in this church and have no more friends to show for it either. And I feel betrayed, especially by one.

For me--when I realize I don't have any friends, I just really don't care.

I hated going to church. I was never treated well as my dad was not very active. Our whole family was treated as low on the totem pole of mormonism.

Then I married my gay husband (and I do refer to him being gay all the time because it determined the outcome of my mormon experience and I'm sick of gays in mormonism getting married, I'm sick of gays hating themselves, etc., so I talk about it)--BUT I married him and he is so social and loved by everyone (has a harder time with those closest to him)--but I go to the dentist's office and they all ooooh and ahhh over him and how much they love him (give me a break).

BUT I was treated like mormon royalty ONLY WHILE WITH my gay cheating husband as he know how to play the mormon social game. AND when I knew my marriage was falling apart, I pulled my kids out of the church because I knew how they would be treated.

I actually do have 2 mormon friends. My 2 mormon friends have been my friends since I was about 20 years old and I am now 53 and they have not abandoned me.

BUT I hated fake mormon friendships. It was such a relief when I never had to go there again.

are ones that don't know I no longer believe. Many of those that know, no longer talk to me. Sad commentary.

This post really struck me because I just barely bumped into one of my old friends. He seemed so happy to see me, and he asked so many questions. I want to think he's a genuine guy, but he reminded me of all the people who claimed to be my brother, but who left me alone when I really needed someone.

I used to make excuses for them: they can't develop real friendships because they're already assigned friends by the leaders, and they have too much going on in their lives to stop everything and pick my sorry ass up off the ground.

Oh well. I try to live and learn. I hope I never did that to people who needed me. And I hope I never do.

Rock on, MIB.

... Mormons only want to use you. As soon as you leave they feel a little more reluctant to do that (they still will if given the chance).

So let me get this straight from the post, you said you liked Green Tea and a friend accused you of being a child molester?

What's the full story? It sounds a lot like Joseph Smith's everyone who asks for a sign is an adulterer.

Thanks for that,

Not your friend AKA your mormon friend.

"Love your neighbor as long as he is Mormon." Boy that sums it all up. As a nevermo in Utah back in the 90's that is how I felt about that clan of people- all 54 months I lived there. It seemed like forever!

One nice thing about being Mormon is that you could move almost anywhere and have an immediate circle of friends. You would find a group of people with similar backgrounds and beliefs instantly. Got transferred from LA to Cleveland? No problem! Just look up the local ward and in a month you'll have callings and social activities and your kids will have instant friends.

As Mary Poppins said about pie crust promises: easily made, easily broken. These friends only care about you when you are in the ward. If you move across town, you'll never see them again except at Stake Conference. If you stop going to church, they may make some effort to save your testimony, but if that doesn't work, you'll never hear from them again.

Years ago, I moved to a new place and saw this girl I'd known from another ward. Apparently, she lived right around the block. She saw me and said, "Oh, did you move here?"
"Yes, a few months ago."
"Oh, well, I haven't seen you at church".
I just stared blankly for a few seconds to let it sink in. She looked at me a bit panicked and walked away briskly. A week later, I saw her on the street and she crossed over to avoid talking to me. She never spoke to me again!

This is an extreme example, but within a month of leaving the church, I only had 4 friends from my ward who contacted me. Within 6 months, I was done to 1 friend, and then she moved away. By a year, I had no friends from the ward I had attended for 4 years. I ran into someone from church at the grocery store and she said, "Oh, we miss seeing you at church." I replied, "You can still see me, I haven't moved!"
Again, she just walked away stunned. Apparently, you can only see your friends at church, not visit them at home.

If you want to make easy friends, go to church and pretend to believe like them. If you want to lose those friends, be yourself and think for yourself. Calling them "Fair Weather Friends" would be too complimentary.

Exactly...

When I moved to France for graduate studies, I had already lost my testimonkey, but I thought that maybe going to Church would help me socially, since I knew nobody at all in the country and felt kind of isolated at first.

But that can only work if you are willing to do the entire Mormon thing (accept callings, pay tithing etc). And I wasn't. I attended for a few months - avoiding callings and responsibilities like the plague - and then stopped going altogether.

No one EVER tried to "rescue" me. (Let alone be friends.) Yes, "instant" friendships...

I attended Institute a little longer (in the "mission field", Institute is more of a Church thing than a college thing), and I interacted with a few cool young people, but eventually I couldn't stomach Institute any longer. (It was hard to hear about Adam and Eve and Noah's Ark with a straight face, specially in French.)

In the end, I typically arrived in the last 15 minutes of class and then stayed around for the "munch and mingle" afterwards. But when I stopped going altogether, once again I was ignored. I have since recontacted some of these people through Facebook, but we seem to have nothing else in commmon. (Except for one cool, open-minded French guy. But that is all.)

If this makes you feel better, I went to my TBM boyfriend's family's house last week after we had had a run-in about Mormonism. He told me that he had relayed to them the things I had said in our discussion (read: negative things about Mormonism). His family, who had been so welcoming before, didn't even come out to say hi! And I am really friendly and nice! People love me! His family had been really welcoming in the beginning, probably when they thought I was a potential convert. Yet here was his family, hiding away in their rooms. Double yuck.

It is always better to follow your TRUE HEART. A piece of you dies when you fake it. You will meet better people, true people, and you may be a mentor to those who have the same doubts you do.

Some of my favorite people are those who left strict religious upbringings to follow their true selves (I count a now-atheist Orthodox Jew and a former Baptist Minister among them). Something about them makes them very special people. They have their minds and their integrity and are very fun to talk to because they have allowed themselves to question the world around them and create their own reality. They did have to lose friends and family, but they are so strong from it.

GOOD LUCK! The world is so big with billions of people, and most of them know Mormonism is a joke. Come find the rest of us! :)

I'm a nevermo so can't relate to your exact experience and wouldn't presume to comment on it directly--but I still find posts such as yours on the subject of how Mormons relate socially to be enormously helpful.

I've had a number of problems in friendships with Mormons and it took me some time to put two and two together and figure out the pattern that they all seemed to share had to have something to do with their religious culture. The passive-aggressiveness, the inability to communicate directly, the two-facedness, the compulsion to plaster on a smile and spout off small talk and say, "Everything's fine!" when there are real issues to be discussed. I've also served on volunteer-group boards with TBMs numerous times and trying to deal with them in a straightforward manner--getting honest opinions and straight answers and NOT a different story depending on who was standing in front of them at any given time--was like herding greased eels.

I have also lived in areas with high concentrations of Mormons and I spent a long time being jealous of their apparent vibrant and plentiful friendships...then I figured out that they're not REAL friendships. To be a real friend and not simply an aquaintance, a person has to pass the 3 AM test--could you call them in a pinch and they'd cheerfully leap out of bed to help you? From the stories of posters here on RFM, a friend like that is rare as rockinghorse poop in Mormonism.

And then there's the whole question of how a real friend accepts you warts and all--but the Mormons can't even get their mind around the fact that God accepts each of us as we are--so one can hardly expect them to be capable of that themselves. Their entire theology and culture seems to be centered on judging each others' worthiness, and there's no way a true, mutually respectful relationship can grow under those poisonous conditions.

As many have wisely pointed out, you're better off and there are real, authentic people out there to get to know--but you're clearly a bright and insightful person and so no doubt have figured that out : )

First of all, I have been surprised by how many times I have read on websites of active Mormons how they seem to think if they didn't go to church they would have no friends. What a scary, lonely existence. Second, I would just say that new friends are waiting, in all sorts of places. If you go somewhere where people are interested in things you care about, from sewing class to political groups to yoga, whatever, you will find vibrant, friendly people who want to hang out with you. I am not terribly attractive, or wealthy, and to be honest I'm kind of a bitch, but I have made REAL, LIFE TIME friends in all sorts of places because other people thrive on human interaction. The humans involved don't have to be perfect, just interesting and halfway polite.